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Well i thought this would be obvios but if you really can't tell. A turk if from turkey and an Armenian is from Armenia. Do you need me to go into deeper detail?
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It never happened
shareYou are just like the neo nazis who deny that the holocaust ever happened. The whole world believes and knows that this happened. Just because you don't like this event doesn't mean you can make it dissapear. I don't like you but yet you still exist. This Turkish lojic doesn't seem to be working.
shareWithout knowledge, discussing a subject is not possible. Unfortunatelly, history is a subject that never been really objective-depends who is writing-
But please try to be 'smart', not to be believe what you have been told, just do research...
Also, Noone has proved the 'story' is true.
Sure it's been "proven" true. The overwhelming evidence from German and other archives do so. Which is why almost all historians take the Genocide as fact.
shareI pity them who come here to discuss about the validity of the Armenian Genocide. Documentary, a movie, an act is art. And when people come and talk about the validity of the acts, the movie itself, then they become funny. Don't you think it is about time to really watch the movies as a work, and not as propaganda? Do you think we all are stupid that we can not define what is propaganda and what is truth? Please people, let it go. Armenian Genocide [did happen]. Now please be polite and don't open the wounds of those people who have seen the Genocide. I wish my enemy (if I ever make one) will never see what my grand fathers and grand mothers along with their friends have seen. But what I wish is that people be happy, look at the life with good eyes. After all film makers make the movies with passion... It's not like a job in a cubicle...
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Just wondering how your kind of people feel when time will eventually pass your lies. How does it feel to be the crook in history books? You will gain nothing by denial. You only loose human dignity and reliability in the eyes of your fellow beings. No one will believe anything you say after denying Armenian genocide. Turkey is doing itself an enormous damage by not confessing the truth. Current Turkish authorities make themselves guilty of crimes against mankind by protecting mass murderers of the past. If the matter would not be as serious as it is, the rest of the world would make Turks stupid laughingstocks. Now they are stupid miserable cowards.
shareDenial???? How could you deny something that never happened? Get over it we will never accept this armenian fairytale.
sharePlease check the cast of Armenian Genocide two weeks from now when credits are updated. Quite indisputable cast!
And then check the opposing party. What a bunch of moronic neo-nazies. And those mindless puppets of Turkish government. Lies, terror and censorship are all they can offer to those who seek justice for the Armenians (and the Kurdish). Take a look of Turkish men on street interviewed in Armenian Genocide. Look how embarrassed they are. How their anxious eyes wander here and there avoiding eye contact. How scared they are. Trying desperately reminisce what they are taught to say and "think" about Armenian genocide. It's obvious they don't believe what they are saying.
Neo-nazies is that best you can come up with. These men are real historians, the armenians and the other "genocide scholars" are not even historians. The Turks that spoke were all real historians. The Turkish men on the street were well paid by the producers to say what the producers wanted to hear. The Turks have nothing to apolagize for, certainly not for a fairytale.
shareAt least the Nazis hanged for what they did. The Turks who committed this mass murder(which the whole world recognizes) got to live their lives in denial. Turkey does not deserve E.U. membership. It should be reserved for civilized countries that aren't full of murderous liars and their descendants.
shareYou dont admit and apologize for something that didn't happen! Turks never wanted a membership for EU, the only "Turks" that want it are the westernized Turks. Hopefully the EU will deny the admission and that will be the final nail on the coffin of Turkey's 'western Turks'. Then we could regain our country from these traitors.
shareSure, but the Armenian Genocide did happen. The vast majority of historians (who believe it did) cannot be insane.
shareThe AG did not happen. During the ww1 the Ottoman empire relocated the armenians. During the relocation some 300000 armenians died, besides this another 300000 armenians died of famine, diseases,hunger and war. So the total number is 600000 and not some inflated figure and there was no order for the total destruction of the armenians. The number of armenians in the entire Ottoman empire was less the 1400000, how could 1500000 die if the total number was 1400000 and what about the hundreds of thousands of survivors? Come on, you cant be this naive!
shareBecause the number of Armenians was 2.5 million. The relocation was the means for the Genocide. You sound pretty naive.
shareThe armenian patriarchate provided numbers for the total armenian prewar population in the Ottoman empire is 1398000 (1913). And were are the orders for the genocide? given by whom? You dont mean the forgeries set forward by dadrian the fraud.
shareThe numbers are from bogus Turkish websites. And the orders were given by Talat pasha.
shareThese numbers (1398000) are provided by the armenian patriarchate in Istanbul!!!
The Talat pasha telegrams are proven to be fraud.
Turkey makes me sick. The whole world knows what they did but they are still in denial. They are like little children who are caught red handed and still claim they are innocent. The only difference between children and Turks is that children aren't capable of murdering more than a million men, women, and children in forced death marches. This was the work of cold and calculating Turkish adults.
shareIf it makes you sick then you should not mess with it and leave it alone!
shareWe won't leave this alone untill the Turkish government apologizes for the murder of more than a million innocent civilians. You can keep denying it all you want but the rest of the world is on our side and the more you keep denying it, the stupider you look. You have embraced evil by denying the truth and you are no better than the murderers because you want their deeds to be covered up.
shareIn your dreams. Turkish government will never apologize for a fairytale. You dont apologize for things that didn't happen. By insulting you just make yourself look stupid!
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You act like spoiled brat! You started insulting.
shareI may act like a spoiled brat but at least I'm not descended from murderers and liars.
shareI think it is not right to persuade people think in the way you think, especially in this case. In my opinion it was a long time ago and now there is no need to discuss it.
shareTurkey opened its all the historical archives and we are ready to see the truth, because we know the truth and we have the proof. Many American profs looked these detailed archives and Armenian archives, and they all agreed that Armenian Genocide is a big lie that's ever said. American profs said that, not Turkish people, so you there is no need to be prejudiced about it. So let us see your archives and your proofs if you can! I am not prejudiced about Armenia because Turkish and Armenian people lived together for 500 years happily, from the time that Ottoman Empire is set up. But when France, England, etc. started to say that they'll help to Armenians to set up their own country, Armenians produced that lie. Not all of them produced this. There are many Armenians that know the truth because of their loyalty to the place that they lived for hundreds of years: Turkey. Ask to them, no need to ask to Turkish people then! Because you're still prejudiced and not able to see the truth with historical evidence. Continue to say "Turks killed Armenians" with no evidence in your hand. If you are still saying that Turks killed Armenians then search the google: What is ASALA?
shareHave you actually researched the Patriarchate records? Or your read it from some Turkish website?
The telegrams were claimed to be "forged" by 2 Turkish historians, but never actually proven forged.
These records have been forwarded by the patriarchate to the foreign embassies in Istanbul in 1913 and they do exist in their libraries. Also foreign historians tell that these are forgeies. The Turkish historians know more about the entire subject then the armenian ones besides dadrian is not a historia at all.
shareSure, but where did you read the figures--libraries of foreign embassies, or some Turkish website? You keep dancing away from the question.
How many foreign historians do you know that state that the telegrams are forgeries?
These numbers have been known for years even the bleu book mentions them.
What about, Erich Feigl, Norman Stone, Guenther Lewy and Gilles Veinstein.
The so called armenian Β΄genocideΒ΄ scholars (dadrian) cant even read or write Ottoman, where do do they get those Ottoman documents?
O25d:
You are far from a learned individual. How does that noose feel around your neck? You will either accept the truth (the irrefutable evidence) or you will hang. It is inevitable that, in the near future, Turkey will admit to the brutal crime of genocide against the Armenian people, as perpetrated by its predecessor. You seem to be a prime example of the filthy descendant of rapists and murderers. How disgusting that you must be. Regardless of the waste of life that you are, read and learn, you ignoramus:
Professional Ethics and the Denial of
Armenian Genocide:
http://hgs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/9/1/1
Oh, and just to give you a heads up: Be careful! At the end of your road is a dead end. Your denials won't change that fact.
You armenians cant handle the truth, isn't? You make threats to push for your own point of view without listening what the other side says. Empty threats, is that the only thing you can say. I stand by my own words, the AG is a fairytale!
shareO25d:
Many of us aren't of Armenian stock. Many of us support real causes, such as recognition for the Armenian genocide and, for the present, the genocide in Darfur.
"Fairy tale"? Tell that to the growing number of Turkish historians (as well as the majority of the world's historians on the given subject) who are rejecting the false version of events of official Turkey and siding with the truth, which is supported by irrefutable evidence: that the Ottomans orchestrated and perpetrated a plan to annihilate the Armenians. That is a historical fact from which even a fool cannot distinguish himself. Poor fellow.
please come out from under you rock and realize what is going on in the world, why is it that the major G8 countries in the world have accepted this "faity tale" as you say a genocide?...why is it that recently a mass grave was found in a previously occupied armenian village and the turkish villagers that live there now were told by the government authorities to keep quiet about the subject?...please tell me how do you explain the pictures if you say they were photoshope or anything else then you are an ignorant, as far as i can tell there was no Photoshop or any other program of the sort back in the 80's or the 70s or even before. The overwgelming evidence points at the fact taht the genocide DID happen, just ask some turkish writers, whom one of them won nobel prize for his work recently.
shareI dont care whether you are armenian or not, there was no "genocide". It was war many people died from war related problems. During the WW1 the armenians started an insurrection and were defeated, because of that the Ottoman government decided to relocate them to syria and northern-iraq. The armenians are still bitter about that. They are trying to portray the relocation as an "genocide". The so-called Turkish historians who support the armenian fairytale are no real historians at all, most of them as sociologists. Pissant!
shareFrom your name its obvious you are a greek. You cant expect from them to be objective when it comes to dealing with Turks.
shareAnd you can never expect a Turk to argue properly as all they do is Lie, distort coerce.
shareI presume you are also greek!
We dont lie, we dont brag about genocides fairytales.
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Greeks, Kurds, and Assyrians should be thankfull they were allowed to live with the Turks for hundreds of years. Re-location of armenians from anatolia was a necessity during the war, the armenians were not loyal to their government. Hundreds of armenian gangs were constantly attacking Turkish villages and supply lines of the Ottoman army. Im confident and thankful that my ancestors did the right thing.
Armenians live in a fairytale, they should wake up and move on.
Greeks, Kurds, and Assyrians should be thankfull. Thankfull that they weren't targeted for extermination. Thankfull that they weren't made to march through the desert without food or water. No amount of Turkish lies can cover up their history. 025d, the whole world knows what your people did. If there is such overwhelming evidence that it never happened, then why is it a crime to deny the Genocide in France?
shareArmenians were never targetted for extermination! They still exist. It is not a crime in france to deny this fairytale, it has not passed the french senate and not signed into a law by chirac. Many french historians are against this, read the french historian Gilles Veinstein he too denies this.
shareJust because your people targeted them for extermination, doesn't mean they were completely successfull. Hitler, who by the way was inspired by your country's genocidal efforts, wasn't completely successfull either. You're the only one who's believing in a fairy tale.
shareIt was indeed a genocide. The turks marched in killed 1.5 million out of the 2 million Armenians and took the land. Hitler even said "Hostory will not remember me. Who now still speaks of the genocide of the Armenians?"
I dont know past my great grandmother because they were all murdered.
"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particularethnic group or nation"
Yeah, I'd say it was a genocide
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is Strength
2+2=5
Big Brother is love
Armenians were not subjected to a targetted massacre. Hitler's quote is a lie, Hitler never said something like that. The quote attributed to Hitler was invented by dadrian in 1978, the armenian pseudo scholar. Dadrian has a history of misquoting and falsifying quotes and articles. The Turks will never believe in this fairytale! period.
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A little historical fact, armenians were known in the Ottoman empire as storytellers. It might be that your granparents invented this story, which most likely is. There is no evidence for the armenian fairytale, the pics you saw on armenian nationalist sites are dead Turks, presented as armenians.
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I've never even thought it was possible that someone like you could exist, so I choose to continue to deny your existence. I don't care if I see your obituary in the paper tomorrow, I still say you're a fairytale, If you were to get brutally murdered in front of my eyes, and your family was crying out your name with grief, I would still choose to believe that you are a fairytale. And if you were to walk up to me, and tell me a story of how your family was killed in front of you I would scoff at their "grave", because it would obviously be a fake.
sharethe person who won the nobel prize was an idiot, i do not understand how he won that prize.his books are awfull, he is a billboard writer and also he was educated by u.s.a. government to be used this kind of stupid things. he is a puppet only, not a writer not a human. he is nothing.
besides, i am from city of artvin which located in northeast (just in the corner of turkish map)and whole my village speaks armenian because we were very close to them many years ago and we love eachother as per my grandmother's words. also i have learned turkish when i was 6. in the war time armenian killed turks, turks killed armenian because that was the war at all.
my grandmother says she saw pregnant turkish ladies has been cutted, their babies taken out from their stomach and babies heads cut off by armenians. many children (some were just 13 years old) has been raped by armenian as well. now can i say there were TURK GENOCIDE ??? so what the *beep* are you talking about that turks killed armenian, raped and murdered. that was war, what are you expecting ? now everyone says there were armenian genocide because they are expecting some benefits by using this stupid idea. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE, OPEN AND SEE WHAT GAMES ARE PLAYING ON YOU, US & ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD. some countries are trying to get our freedom from our hand but you still insist to talk about past. those games are playing on us but who knows that you will not be the next one. you saw how iraq has been distructed by U.S.A., how many people has died in serbia, in afghanistan, in israel, in beirut, and others. USA killed thousands american indian, french killed almost 2 million algeria citizens, hitler killed millions jewishs, england killed millions in africa, india, south america. now they are the biggest supporter of this damn genocide case. why noone interrogate them, why ????? beacuse they are strong, they are big economy and countries and nooone has brave to to that, right ??. *beep* them all, they all are the biggest pain in the ass on this world.. dont blame us and do not expect from us to accept genocide. there is nothing like that. if you wanna do something, stand against above mentioned countries.. god beless you all.
1) That turikish writer said that there had been an Armenian Genocide.
2) How can you offend the other people because of there religion.yes they are diffrentbut I feel ashamed for these Christians hwo write such thing.
3) About Armenian Genocide I can say that people who dont know ANYTGHING write whatever they want only to support there country or position.That looks stupid.
The thing I know is that Armenians killed thausonds of Turks 16 years ago.
4) Somebody wrote that Armenia is a country that existed long before Turkey. How can we know that besides those history books you are writing in your country?
5) Ive been to Turkey and I even liked being there. They are really nice people and A LOT of Armenians found home on there lands.
@ o25d
Dude you have "grey wolves" written all over you. Give it up and don't embarrass yourself any further. Thank you.
-Goodnight, mother of six!
-Goodnight, father of two!
You dont admit and apologize for something that didn't happen! Turks never wanted a membership for EU, the only "Turks" that want it are the westernized Turks. Hopefully the EU will deny the admission and that will be the final nail on the coffin of Turkey's 'western Turks'. Then we could regain our country from these traitors.
how you know the faces of turkish people in streets, ever been here ? let me say something, i am a turkish man but my mother language is armenian, i have learned turkish when i was 6. do you know the people in who live in northsouth of turkey ? there are thousands people who speak armenian and we also turkish. we have no problem with turks or armenian. my grandmother passed us the informations from the war times. she said they were on war and people killed eachother to survive. this is not the matter of genocide, turks killed armeanian, armenian killed turks, thats all. there were no genocide. this is just a policy, this is a game of *beep* politicans to mix people minds. turks and armenian citizens have no problem with eachother, god damn politicans are using this card in a wrong way to make people hate eachother. pls do not join this game, pls open your eyes against this sick political minds. world is going worse and worse everyday, the 3rd world war is coming and i hate that i can not do anything although i see what is going on stop fighting,think about to find out to make life better for everyone in the world. life is too short and do not waste your time by hating people, fighting and killing innocent people. with my best regards.
shareTo o25d who said : "Denial???? How could you deny something that never happened? Get over it we will never accept this armenian fairytale."
...
Fairytale ? Fairytale ??! What's wrong with you ? You think I go to sleep knowing half my family was murdered imagining it happened while surrounded by freaking flying purple elephants ?!
You think any of us do ?
You think an entire nation would make up such a lie, where did our families go ? I mean, seriously, where did they go then ? Can you tell me ?
Tell me where they are, I'd sure like to know, since it knowing them would've helped prevent a cancer I have been diagnosed with that is hereditary. But I had no way of knowing since : oh, where IS my family ?!
....
It is such a horrible thing to think, 100 years later, we Armenians have no future, hell, we have no present even, because the Turks have no past. Your past starts in 1923, how convenient. Of course you don't have this information in history books because your history, yet again, didn't start until 1923.
Well, guess again, it did, it started long before that.
Don't you have any great grand parents ? You do, because you have a history and a chance of future, we don't, we don't have a future because in 1915 your governement chose to erase us, anihilate us.
Is it really a fairytale ? Do you know for sure ? I hope it is, then I'd know where my family is freaking buried.
Now, I'm gonna go calm down before saying something I really regret since I don't hate the Turks at all, I have nothing against them, I just have something against close minded people who dare say such horrible thing to us.
"I killed your cat you druggie bitch!
I thought it would bring closure to our relationship"
there are victims, there are pictures
how can you say it never happened.
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Typical coward, not admitting that it happend. You are a waste!
shareNot only is it cowardice, it is inhuman.
What is most horrid here is the fact sercankirpar (and others like him) ask for a proof, a link to a website that shows what we say is true.
Why is it inhuman sercankirpar ?
I used words to describe the pain we Armenians are going through still today due to your inability to have some sense of decency.
I used words to describe PAIN and you ask FACT.
This pain comes from somewhere, and it is not only mine, it is shared by millions.
Not only Armenians, but all of us who have families who have had to endure a genocide. Or simply disappear because of it.
It is not cowardice, it is plain evil.
Now since you are completely blind to suffering I'll give you a simple line :
Turkey was denied entry to the EU because they didn't want to recognize the genocide.
Ponder on that.
How come so many countries basically said "How dare you ask to come in a community that works towards unity if you don't agree to stating your country tried to de-unite an entire country"...
Again, ponder on that.
All of you who say these things to us Armenians.
All of you who say those things to the Manchurians, to the Jews and so many who's parents couldn't have their family's real name on their passport because their family's life was denied.
Our pain is real, if you want to deny facts, fine; but do not dare to deny our pain.
If you do : you are not human.
"Sheldon: I'm polymerized tree sap and you're an inorganic adhesive, so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction is reflected off of me, returns to its original projectory and adheres to you. "
Oh and personally I am getting tired of being one of many attacked by nationalists calling our history "fairytale"...
I swear to God if I meet "o25d" the Turkish National Negationist ...
if lack of blunt instrument I'll bury him with words.
Although he might be a geeky hairy moisty glass wearing computer hacking loving poor wannabe midget... but still : NO PITY 4 INHUMANITY
Oh look ! I didn't even use one bad word. Wow. Although I could certainly do better. Oh and look again o25d, unlike you, I have a vast variety of vocabulary, unlike you, to tell you you are wrong in so many different ways.
At least I don't use the same word over and over and over and over again on so many boards like you do.
Just stating an obvious superiority here :D
"Leonard : Meesa thinking yousa looking
pretty sad now too, betcha, betcha." TBBT
Tell that to my grandfather, who as a child witnessed the murder of his entire family and was shipped to an orphanage in Iran due to the amount of kids left without families.
I bet you do not believe Jesus ever came to earth either right? EVEN THOUGH you never once prayed "JESUS IF YOU ARE REALLY REAL SHOW ME A VISION THAT YOU ARE REAL AND HELL AND HEAVEN ARE REAL TOO THEN I WILL DO AS YOU SAID TO DO IN THE BIBLE AND ASK FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOUR NAME UNTIL I GET IT, BUT SHOW ME A DREAM TONIGHT ABOUT HEAVEN, HELL AND YOU BEING REAL AND I WILL DO AS YOU SAID.. AMEN"
I DARE YOU TO SAY THIS ALOUD... if you do your life is about to change forever.
Another big mouth storyteller!
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There is no masking of anything, the greeks were send to greece and the Turks were send to Turkey. It was an agreement between the two countries. The number of armenians in the Ottoman empire was less whatever number the armenians claim. They were re-located to iraq, away from the battlefield.
Ataturk is a hero, one of the greatest commanders in history! he liberated anatolia from the invading greeks, british, french and italians.
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:) kome on dont be cruel ... poor guy was soo brainwashed by Turkish gov-ment that now has False Memory Syndrome. Imagine they have heard it soo many times that now totally believe in that. I am sure previous generations at least new they were lying denying Armenian Genocide...
I wonder what Turkish Multiplication Table is like:
2 * 2 = 5
2 * 3 = -87
2 * 4 = 13
Brainwashed???
Come on dont be that ignorant! I was born in turkey but spent most of my life in Holland. I know what Im talking about, we Turks know how to distinguish fact from fiction.
Yeah, OK, Armenian Genocide is a fiction... where did you learn about that? Let me guess -- from that idiot Sam Weeds's (or whatever his name is) book?
I am glad you no longer live in Turkey -- maybe one day you will learn real facts and learn more about actual events of history... maybe
I feel very sorry for you armenians, unable to have a mature discussion without insulting seems to be an armenian disease.
There is no denial of anything, the armenian genocide did not happen. Some armenians died but that does not constitute a genocide. More then 2.5 million Turks died during WW1 we dont call that a genocide.
that's so sad... you WERE ready for a mature discussions and Armenians were NOT?
If you are that sensitive and prepapred to have a mature discussion without insulting others, keep in mind that:
A. Armenia is a country that existed long before Turkey, so please use capital A mentioning Armenia
B. Same thing with Armenians... don't they teach that in Holland??
C. If you are ready for a mature discussion don't come here saying it (Genocide or whatever other word Turkish "history" books call it) never happened, because it did happen, it is insulting to people whose relatives had been killed.
"Some armenians died but that does not constitute a genocide."
- how is that!? From the person who created word 'Genocide' to most other scholars from civilized countries, everyone is calling Armenian Genocide a Genocide... are they all wrong?
Sorry o25d but if you read my post fully you would have understood that my obvious intention was to highlight your inabilty to hold a proper discussion. I am all for rational converation and debate because i personally find it highly enjoyable. But when people like you put posts where all you write is
"No genocide, Armenians killed Turks" this really inhibits what you so eloquoently described as "mature discussion". So please o25d i appeal to you that if your going to contribute to this message board please write something intelligent so at least it can be a challange to respond to.
I bet those calling it a "propaganda movie" have not even seen it. It is actually quite objective and yes, it shows the "other side of the story," which is the usual complaint coming from Turks. Some broadcasts were even followed by a debate where Armenian, American and Turkish scholars, probably more erudite and educated than anyone who has posted a message in this thread, debated the historic authenticity of the genocide.
shareThe so called Turkish scholars are paid by the armenian diaspora.
shareThat is fallacious but it is to be expected from someone who has not seen this film and is just talking out of their arse. They present both sides of the story in the informational and it is followed by a discussion on the genocide where two of the four participants are denialists. See the film before jumping to rash conclusions.
shareI have seen the film its over at google video, the "historians" are well paid by armenians. They look very fat.
shareWhile there was an Armenian genocide, there were also many casualities on the Armenian side that were erroneously credited as "victims of genocide" when they were really victims of war.
Both sides are correct in some ways but the Turks are incorrect in saying there was no Armenian genocide and the Armenians are incorrect in over-inflating the numbers.
hmmm.... so what was the "real" number of killed Armenians?
with references please.
Thanks.
RMan
According to the armenian patriarchate of Istanbul there were some 1.3 million armenians in the ottoman empire. About 350000 of them died and about 950000 survived. From these 950000 survivors of the re-location some went to the newly formed armenian republic the rest to US, europe and to other places.
shareFirstly you all should learn how to discuss without insulting anybody...
Secondly o25d is the only one in my eyes who tries to maintain a normal discussion trying to provide arguments and facts... all the others just keep insulting him for his arguments and his (in their point of view) "denial", but no one tries to disprove his arguments with other arguments and facts. If you all are so angry about it just tell the other side of the story but stop saying he is wrong without any explanation.
Many arguments are just blocked and ignored... before you judge about such piece of history you should really get to know the circumstanceses of the past...
different time - different habits - different circumstances... especially if it's in the middle of a war... You have to keep in mind that a few million people died because of this war and not just armenians
At the end of the day everyone could be brainwashed... but how you can know the truth if you haven't seen it with your own eyes. U CAN NOT!
"I know that I know nothing" (Sokrates)
Facts are the only thing we can rely on.. just facts!!!
So the discussion about the "Armenian Genocide" will continue, taking no end...
where are we heading? It can't be proven!!!
I think we turks and armenians should rather find a peaceful way to live with eachother... not forgetting about those historical events... but rather more just accept the fact that both sides had to take a great loss
Why should our relationship suffer from events which took place nearly a hundred years ago? I don't see the point! What someone thinks about the historical events has nothing to do with which he is as a person... I can still like him or even love him although he has a different opinion.
Peace
To all the Turkish posters: please give it up. You're just making the resolve of Armenians stronger and stronger each and every day you deny the fact of the Armenian Genocide. Your time and money is much better spent to help to develop an actual democracy within your country. The truth will prevail, and Turkey will soon have no choice but to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.
Zara: Please take the time to educate yourself about Armenian history as well as Turkish history. In case you weren't aware, the history of Armenia is over 4000 years old, and they are indigenous to the lands occupied by current day Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, and Georgia. Unlike Turks, the Armenians were always dominated by foreign powers over centuries, and only held dominance at their apex during the ancient Kingdom of Armenia (about 900-800 bc.).
Turks on the other hand, were always dominating and assimilating other cultures and races (which is why your country now contains vast mixtures of races and nationalities, all effectively Turkified). Everyone knows that all Turkic speaking peoples migrated from Mongolia across the orient towards the Middle East and Europe, obliterating every culture in their path. Why do you think there are so many countries now with the "stan" (meaning of Turkic) extension in their name in that region (eg. Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, etc.)? This all happened in the 11th to the 13th centuries, of course.
Therefore, Zara, it's certainly not a stretch to see that Turkic peoples had for centuries subjugated all non-Turkic minorities, which grew into one of the most powerful empires in history, the Ottoman Empire. It's also crystal clear that the Turks dominated the region and held captive the ancient homeland of the Armenians, as they did to all other subjects in their grasp including Assyrians, Greeks, and Kurds. Let's also not forget that the Ottoman Turks had the means, the power, the motives, and the numbers to carry out the extrermination of the Armenian population in Anatolia (formerly ancient Armenia).
But don't take my word for it...no, by all means, just go to the following sources if you're interesting in learning about the truth at all:
http://www.answers.com/topic/urartu
http://www.answers.com/topic/armenia-region-and-former-kingdom-of-asia-minor
http://www.answers.com/topic/armenia
http://www.answers.com/topic/mount-ararat
http://www.answers.com/topic/turkic-migration
http://www.answers.com/topic/turk
http://www.answers.com/topic/ottoman-turk
http://www.answers.com/topic/ottoman-empire
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-ottoman-empire-dominated-territories
http://www.answers.com/topic/turkey-1
http://www.answers.com/topic/balyan-family
You can also corroborate these sources by checking any other up-to-date and reputable publications.
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John_Hancock,
Just wait until currant prime minister Erdogan gets the Presidency and their Army Generals are already standby for their next Coup d'etat (their already done it in 1960~65,1971,1980~1983 ) LOL
Chief General Yasar Buyukanit runs the country anyway ;-)
Mosts Turks are been told what to believe by their Government's propaganda anyway(brainwashed), so taking in account that illiteracy is blooming in Turkey , technically they are born ignorant of history ;-)
Just wait a see for the soon to come Coup d'etat ;-)
You Turks can keep using different words to describe what happened such as "relocation" etc.. It doesn't change the facts or outcome of the past. Yes, the ottomans "relocated" the Armenian people from their own lands, lands that belonged to the Armenians.
The Turks used many different forms of "Relocation" such as: beheading, shooting, stabbing, disemboweling, raping, beating to death, torturing......... Yes, the Armenians were "relocated" by these measures. Because after 1923 they were gone from "Turkey", a country formerly known as "Armenia".
When will the violence end? Christians "Relocated" by muslims in "Turkey", Christians "relocated" by muslims in Bosnia, Christains "Relocated" by muslims in Rwanda, Jews "relocated" by muslims in Israel, Hindus "relocated" by muslims in India and Pakistan, Buddists "Relocated" by muslims in Afghanistan, Christians "relocated" by muslims in the Phillipines, Christians and Buddists "relocated" by muslims in Malaysia, Christians "relocated" by muslims in Sudan, Kurds "relocated" by muslims in Iraq.........Anyone else see a pattern here?
So muslims are evil? I my self are turkish, and not ashame of it. I have not seen the documentaty, so I have no idea how it is. But when it comes to the genocide I have no idea if it happened, I hope not, but there seems to be information out there about that, something I must research, and maybe accept it. To learn about my own history. But if it happened why did it happened? And Turkey did not exist then, the ottoman empire did, and thats not Turkey in my eyes. I wonder what does Armenia, besides from wanting Turkey to say sorry and admitting it. What else? What will change? Does Armenia want money? Or land(something that I cant see ever happening)? It seems a lot of people from this board sees turks as evil and stupid. Thanks a lot, it is nice to know that we are evil, nice know from spdl32 that we turks are so evil we kill, shoot and so on. Damn we turks must be the most evil people in the world. It is funny that the world hasnΒ΄t closed all diplomacy with Turkey. But now after the cold war is over and the new threat are the islamist (yeah I said it, not muslims but islamist, any religion that you believe in too much is dangerous) we can take it up again, why wasnt this important for the West, USA and all the other good countries, to talk about it while the cold war was going on. Turkey even is a member of NATO, damn that doesnΒ΄t make NATO look nice. When you are needed, we dont talk about the problems there could be. And the time goes on, and on.
One more thing spdl32, it is a bit funne to see that you write christians with capital A and muslims with small, you must really have some hate in your self. But you must admit, or know in your self, that christian has also more or less "relocated" people too, as many times as muslims or more. I just dont have the numbers. I the name of religion people have been killed.
Hope you will read this and come with a feedback. Now I have to cook, that is relaxing.
I my self are an ateist.
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all we want is our story to be in written in the history and recongnized. to be honest i dont hate turkish people. i dont hate them for smoething that has happened in the past. all we want is out story to be heard. some people say its in the past forget about it, but think about it if lets say the holocaus or 911 was denyed would you just go ok forget about it. obviously not. you are gonna fight for what you believe is true. i am dont fighting, i know turkey wont admit it and thats ok cause i know for many generations this story will pass on.
PEACE!
It is not suprising that primitive savages behave like primitive savages. But it is a pity that Leftist fools somehow feel enlightened by adopting the attitudes of primitive savages. For example, I was recently talking with a silly f_ck-head, whose sister is married to a Turk, therefore he identifies with Turkish denial of the Armenian genocide.
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000072/thread/87377623?d=87395287&p=1 #87395287
Illegitimus!
lacedemonians, you sure got bitter in years.
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.
I know.
Illegitimus!
Turks have no reason to accept the genocide because it will legitimize the loss of
so many families in Armenia, especially once the lawsuits start coming in.. we're talking about millions of reparation dollars from the Turkish government.
So even if historians dig up a video showing Armenian men and women being sodomized while some Turkish douchebag screams "This is a genocide and we're enjoying it", it is going to be denied over and over again.. period.
So it is quite a simple choice, lose millions of goat biscuits or whatever the f$ck currency they use over there or deny the genocide until the Armenians run out of breath.
"Old man Stauf built a house and filled it with his toys . . . "
It's partly a matter of culture and civilization. Eastern culture is fundamentally concerned with subjective consensual truth, especially saving face. Western culture is fundamentally concerned with objective truth, no matter where it leads.
Illegitimus!
I disagree, unfortunately cultural ethics no longer exist. I believe personal agendas always hold more priority than ethical matters or anything that requires some sort of integrity, especially in politics (not just isolating Turkey but every country as a whole).
"Old man Stauf built a house and filled it with his toys . . . "
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I think you are the one that is liar here. You can not provide a link to a page of an online encyclopedia that can be edited by anyone.
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You say true my friend just black propaganda movie.
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