MovieChat Forums > Pretty Things (2005) Discussion > LIz Goldwyn ruins a great subject

LIz Goldwyn ruins a great subject

posted 19 years ago by samanthaabreu
14 replies | jump to latest

Why does Liz feel the need to show herself more than her subjects. She takes a good topic and walks all over it by constantly thrusting herself in to her documentry. I think the best docs. tell a story with the camera alone. Here the movie is more of a personal journal of Liz Goldwyn. I don't care about Liz. I do care about the subject she attempts to display.

Also,why does she do a striptease at the end of the movie? How embarrasing. She is way too scary looking for that. Put a bag over her head and maybe.

[–] saf1970 19 years ago

I completely agree. what a self absorbed moron. Talking over and interrupting all these wonderful stories and making it all about her. Terrible. Also completely unattractive and made more so by her bizarre interpretive dancing segments that destroy any attempt at flow whatsoever.

[–] desmondjns 19 years ago

Clearly you missed the whole point of the movie. This is not a documentary on burlesque, its about Liz learning (for the sake of a movie) about the old performers, their costumes, and their tricks of the trade. The dance at the end is a culmination of what she's learned from everyone else.

By your same critique, you'd have to can Supersize Me, a DOCUMENTARY about a MAN THRUSTING HIMSELF in the movie. You can't tell that story with the camera alone, unless its just showing fat people eating.

[–] savedbyzero 19 years ago

Regarless of "the point" you alude to, this would have been a better film if Liz had stayed out of it more. The women she talks to are far more interesting than she is. Watching her poolside with Zorita was painful (for the viewer and it seemed for Zorita too).

[–] walter3ca 19 years ago

I think that Liz should work for the Catholic Church. She can single-handedly make sex boring (no pun intended). With her sunken eyes, floppy little breasts, big ass and thighs she would scare more men away if she disrobed than if she were to stay dressed.

[–] dgross-3 19 years ago

It's an excellent idea, but Sister Wendy Beckett has already exploited this strategy. Nothing's quite so chillingly dissociated as watching Sister Wendy comment on the sensuality of an art work.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=35895

[–] buddytesla 19 years ago

Stop trashing the woman, the movie's not bad for a first effort. Thanks to her some of these women finally got to tell their stories. Michael Moore and Ken Burns wern't interested I guess. At least she was.

[–] dgross-3 19 years ago

According to Gross's Law, there are only four fundamental types of message in an internet forum:

1) Original content.
2) "Hey, you can't say that!"
3) "Hey, he can say that if he wants to!"
4) "Hey, take it off-line, the two of you!"

The above, Copyright 2005 by Doug Gross

buddytesla, your message was Type 2.

This has been a Public Service Announcement.

"The internet: an enraged mob beating a greasy spot on the sidewalk where a dead horse used to lie."

[–] dgross-3 19 years ago

Liz Goldwyn's defensiveness, and appalling snobbishness, had the people in our room gaping at each other as we watched this.

Imagine giving this simpering, shrinking little dolt the privilege of handling, and trying on, your costumes, and having her pull the panties up with her stupid dress still on!

And the time when she primly assures the camera, while standing right next to the burlesque star she's visiting, "I don't want to get _too_ naked." Oh, right, honey, because that would be so **vulgar**, right? What a slap in the faces of the women whose homes and wardrobes she has come traipsing into.

And when she doesn't know what the phrase "to turn a trick" means: she's one kind of fool if she's pretending, and another kind if she isn't.

And yes, Zorita's BS-meter was functioning just fine.

[–] j72coburger 19 years ago

"Clearly you missed the whole point of the movie. This is not a documentary on burlesque, its about Liz learning (for the sake of a movie) about the old performers, their costumes, and their tricks of the trade. The dance at the end is a culmination of what she's learned from everyone else."

Good point. However, either that angle or the interviewer were all wrong (how bout both!) Goldwyn appeared to be romanticizing and oggling these women (and their costumes) but didn't have the personal skills to build rapport or conduct a productive interview. I found the footage fascinating but the interviews painful to watch, as she sat there fumbling and asking childish, awkward questions. Instead of seeming honored and enthusiastic that they were subject of a documentary, some of these women seemed almost annoyed by her presence.

[–] ats02171 18 years ago

i have to say that this was almost a waste of film. i can see how this is a journey for liz to find herself. it kinda in that way reminds me of live nude girl united. the only thing is that the tranformation helpd everyone else in the film it was diffent it was intresting. i wanted to hear all the story of back stabbing or frinedship on the road. the horror stories aswell as the good stories. it's to bad that zorida died. at least she was able to say a few things about it. i think that liz as a first time documentary maker didn't know what she was doing. i don't know if liz goldwyn is realated to the famous mgm goldwyns. i think that she ould have to be to get to just come in to these people homes and find them. personally if i could just walk up to betty pages house and tape her i would. maily because she the only one that went and hid and some how wasn't found execpt of one perseitant guy. it seems as though she took a great oppertunty, liz i mean, and totaly wasted it.

btw i love zorida.

[–] torpedoboy4 15 years ago

Not sure why my posts were deleted by IMDB, but I suppose I will reiterate my thoughts. It's 4 years after the airing I saw, but if memory serves me correctly, Liz Goldwyn squandered a great opportunity to paint an IN DEPTH picture of some very intriguing women. I loved the older dancers in this movie, but Goldwyn hammed it up at every turn, made a mockery of the dancers, and made the whole documentary about her personal search. it was deplorable!!

[–] oxblood 18 years ago

I would have rather seen a documentary about the classic strippers who are presented here. It was a great subject. But Liz Goldwyn steps all over the nostalgia by interrupting each of her subjects in her attempt to learn the "art of stripping". Why didnt she just film the documentary and then edit her own parts out until the end of the movie? I found it disrepectful to the senior dancers. The first 80-85 mins should have been about the original burlesque girls and then Liz could have done her little striptease at the end, showing what she learned. She has a nice body but I didnt tune in to see her. It's still not too late for her to go back and re-edit the doc to focus on the performers.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] transitionfilms 18 years ago

She's hideous and self indulgent - She should choke on her own g-string