MovieChat Forums > First Born (2007) Discussion > Confusion about this movie!

Confusion about this movie!


This is not nearly a perfect movie, but it's not horrendous either. It's clearly a Psychological Thriller...not a Horror Movie.

***SPOILER ALERT***

1) The filmmakers have only themselves to blame for people renting/buying the film thinking that this was a Horror Movie. That's the way they've MARKETED IT; from the photos on the DVD sleeve (it looks so much like ROSEMARY'S BABY, it's ridiculous), to the actual title, with the upside down "t" in "First", which is clearly an upside-down cross. And that demonic-looking picture of the baby/(doll?) on the front cover...What else BUT a Horror Movie did the producers/distributors think people would perceive this film to be?!

2) The doll is not "evil", it's not possessed (as some of the posts suggest.) It's all in Elizabeth Shue's mind.

3) It was NOT the real baby that she left in the pool (as some posts said), it was clearly the doll, because the father jumped in and saw that it was a doll. HE wasn't delusional, SHE was.

4) Shue was really good in this movie. I've always liked her work (especially LEAVING LAS VEGAS) and she can easily carry a film. Regardless of the script problems, it was a tour-de-force performance for her.

5) The director, Isaac Webb, did a great job with the mood and the shots, but the holes in the script hurt the film.

6) I can see why a lot of the posts incorrectly call her ailment "Postpartum Depression" instead of the correct "Postpartum Psychosis"...and that's because THE DVD SLEEVE SAYS "POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION" ON THE BACK!! (Again, the fault of the distributiors.)

7) Why in the world do they have Khandi Alexander (Who I worked with on CSI: MIAMI, and she's a sweety-pie) in the credits and ON THE DVD SLEEVE PHOTOS if she's not even in the film?! That's just terrible to do.

8) It was so RIDICULOUS when the lady at the party asked them where the baby was. Bring a crying baby to a FORMAL AFFAIR?! The lady acted SHOCKED that they wouldn't have brought a baby to such a fancy event. Parents leave babies (even newly-born ones) at home with sitters sometimes...they need a break from the constant care a baby requires. I don't understand why the director wrote that moment in there. It made no sense and just took me right out of the reality of the film.

9) The BIGGEST FLAW in this film is the unresolved question of "Jenny." Most people missed this, but it's clear that she was the girl on the train with the doll...but what's NOT clear, and unresolved, is what had happened to her in the house, and why the cashier kept acting so mysteriously about her. And why Jenny wasn't in the school that Shue called. She had to exist, because the cashier confirmed this, unless the cashier was imaginary (which I highly doubt), but then THAT should have been made clear. This was a really big problem in the film. The director should have put Commentary or a Making-Of feature that explained this.

I would say, see the film for Shue's performance and for the great mood and shots established by the director, but be aware that there may be some frustration in the viewing. 8 out of 10.

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I couldn't agree more with your critique. I actually really liked the movie until the end, when I realized how many holes Isaac Webb had left in the plot. However, up until then I thought the movie was great. The cheesy trailer didn't do it justice. I'm a big Shue fan as well, and while nothing will probably ever beat Leaving Las Vegas, her performance here is fantastic. Actually every actor gives a great performance, and the cinematography is gorgeous. If only Webb had given himself more time to make sense of some of the plot aspects...

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Yes, she really is a very good actress. I liked her way back in ADVENTURES IN BABYSITTING. Heck I remember her from THE KARATE KID. But, definitely, her best work is LEAVING LAS VEGAS, and her work in this is not too far behind.

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thanks for that.
but what i am really confused about is the whole ending?
like wtf ??
y did she ferget the baby?
y was the fake baby in the craddle and not the real one?
y was the nanny important???
what was the stuff in the red cloth for? under the craddle..?
wtf was jenny about in all this??



please if you can help me.

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Khandi (or most of her part) must have been edited out of the film. That's too bad, and with the movie being as long as it was, they could have resolved (or at least explained some things).

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What really annoyed me about this movie is how the wichcraft plot was left behind.

And I find it especially surprising how many ppl commenting on the film have completely neglected this plot claiming that the movie is only about postpartum psychosis and what happenes in the poor womans head.

so:

1)what about the dairy??? and Jenny

2)Was the book about wichcraft and the notion about mice, and the picture of the doll, resembling the doll found in the subway also only in her head???

3) the fact that the baby was more or less safe when the talisman left by ms kasperian was under its bed, and when the mother took it away

4)sb mentioned thet the dog was a symbol of an innocent creature that can sense bad spirits, and it knew that the doll was evil etc...
watching the movie second time (i know im crazy but it really got to me, i hate such inconsequent productions and the movie is bugging me!!!!) i have found a what might be a second-meaning of the scene in the restaurant!
the crazy-old-homeless woman is spitting at the mother-to be!!! isint that a traditional (folk in many cultutres) way of scaring away the demons??? Like as if she knew, exaxtly like the dog??


i know that it is overinterpreting but it appeared to me at the end of the movie, whan she hid the diary back in the besement, as if the circle just closed, and same happened before to someone that lived there before (Jenny?) that is why the house was sold quick etc.(all the movies about haunted houses begin with previous owner wanting to sell the house quick and cheap!) It could be of course just that the diary was mothers from the beggining, but this looks kinda left open to the viewer.

to give a little more of the overinterpreting, could this be that she buries the baby to regain her soul?? (conversation with ms kasperian)like she wants to bury the doll but some forces make it to be a baby, for her soul, thats why shes happy and calm afterwards.


AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT SHE IS BURYING THE DOLL AND NOT THE BABY!!! unless it is not to show us how her mind plays tricks with her and its rather only a metaphore it is deeply confusing!!!
what i am on is that it could be as well whatever demon that switched the baby and the doll!



Concluding, to me it looks like the producers wanted first to make a horror movie about whichcraft and black magic and then changed their mind, and decided to make it into a psychological thriller about postpartum psychosis using the same shots!!!



whatever, maybe they have read some survey during post productions saying that this kinda movie would have more audience!


i wasted my day not only watching, but also analysing this stupid movie so i hope that soeone will at least reply to my post!!

cheers everybody!

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she underconsciously wanted everything to be as it was before and killed the baby. (you see in the end, she doesn't remember about baby.) like when she got locked in the basement, she knew the door has a problem; however she did it. you know when you don't want to do your homework (or some task you're given), you underconciously sabotage yourself.

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FWIW, the "crazy-old-homeless woman is spitting at the mother-to be" is a cultural thing. It wards off evil spirits, yes, to a certain extent, but it's more of a Good Luck charm than anything else. For example, in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, the mother spits on the kids. It's not because those kids are evil, but to offer them luck.

My neighbor's mother-in-law did something similar every time she saw the grandkids.

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I don't know if the girl in the train was Jenny but I can easily tell that she was put into a mental institution and her parents covered it up and moved away quickly. (That's what I thought after Laura read the diary.) Also in some part Laura wrote something to the diary, maybe it was hers from the begining.

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While the OP’s interpretations are possible, there is nothing in the film that precluded supernatural elements, and I think he had dismissed the latter too easily. If postpartum depression was really supposed to explain everything that we see in the film, then I have to conclude that it is simply not a good film. Laura was diagnosed as having postpartum depression before the film was even half over, and if that was in fact correct, I would hardly consider it worth my time to spend another hour watching her descend into madness. The film would be somewhat more interesting if the ending was supposed to be ambiguous and left open for the viewer’s own interpretation.

In the film, there are many scenes that tend to support (or are at least consistent) with a supernatural interpretation. First, there was no proof that the doll was not evil. What caused Laura to pick up a doll left behind in the subway by a weird looking girl who pretended that she was carrying her own baby? Why did Laura show a fascination with the doll throughout the whole film? Why did the dog fear the doll and try to hide it with the garbage outside the house? Why did Laura bring the doll back, and then the dog was killed soon afterwards? When Laura bought a book on witchcraft, why were pictures of mice and the doll itself conveniently shown there? Laura was supposed to have killed her own baby, but we clearly see her carrying the doll to bury it. Even if we are supposed to see from Laura’s point of view, what caused her to kill the child whom she apparently loved? Was it possible that Jenny’s spirit was inside Laura?

Then who was Jenny? I believe she was the previous tenants’ teenage daughter who got pregnant and either had an abortion or killed her first-born. Was her spirit in the house or had it even got into Laura’s body? When the pest control guy found the diary, he was immediately trapped in the basement (as was Laura later). Still later, we see Laura reading Jenny’s diary and even writing on it as if she was Jenny herself - supporting the idea that she was possessed. Then after Laura buried her own baby, she put the diary back in the right place and seemed to have the look of content. She did not even know her own daughter’s name (Jessica), which suggests that she had been taken over by Jenny’s spirit.

Lastly, what was the role of Mrs. Kasperian? One possible interpretation is that she, being from Eastern Europe, understood – or at least believed in – evil spirits and had put the charms(?) under the baby’s crib to protect her. Note that the child cried whenever she was with Laura. Did she, like the dog, sense Jenny’s spirit inside her? On the other hand, the baby felt safe and comfortable with Mrs. Kasperian. The baby was killed only after the sitter was forced to go. In contrast to the OP, Mrs. Kasperian clearly believed in supernatural influence.

Of course, all the odd things that we see could be interpreted as just Laura’s hallucinations, but in that case I think there were too many red herrings for the film’s own good. There are just too many other unanswered questions. Was someone (and who?) trying to break into the house when Laura was alone with the baby? If everything was supposed to be explained by Laura's mental problems, then what caused her to kill the baby on the very day she was declared fit to leave the hospital?

From the above, I would say while we could see everything as being caused by Laura’s mental problems and hallucinations, a supernatural interpretation of the film could not be totally ruled out. But either way, it is not a good film.

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@ HenryCW

When I saw the movie I was confused at what was happening but your comment really got me to think.

I came up with the following scenario.

As soon as Laura was thinking she might be pregnant Jennie (a teen who killed herself and her first born baby) begins trying to take control of her.this would be why she "showed herself to Laura and leaves some sort of relic (in the form of the doll) to strengthen her power over Laura.

The relic does not only influence Laura but also her husband. this would explain why he would choose exactly Jennies old houde to move to.

I complete agree with the part you write about the dog and the nanny as they just make sense.

The part where she thinks she is being attacken can , in my oppinion be explained like this. As Jennie is taking over but does not have complete control yet Laura thinks there is someone attacking her from the outside when she is really being attacked from the "inside" it could be compared to some sort of dual personality. the part of her that is not under control of jennie yet is hiding the baby and making her affraid, while at the same time the part of her that is under control of jennie is trying to attack the baby while it is not in the crib. I would think that Laura and Jennie hae the same level of control at this time and therefore would be switching control every second/minute.

the ending in my oppinion can be explained as followed. Jennie now almost has complete control over Laura and , with the of Mrs. Kasperian removed, she preoceeds the kill yet another first born. the scene where she is burying the baby is Lauras own interpertation of hat she is doing ) as she is still there but then in a numb/ constant dream state). Jennie then writes a chapter in her diary to close the circle. i believe that the next morning Jennie has left Lauras body/mind and the person waiking up is actually Laura. she interpeted everything as a bad dream or is actually unaware what has happened (like waking up from a coma). This would be why she is looking exhausted (apart rom a short night) and absolutely has no clue who jessica is. this could be explained by the fact that the spell or posession or supernatural was allready in place when she was in the subway before she knew she was pregnant.

Looking forward to any thoughts on this:)

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I agree that if one takes a supernatural interpretation of the film, then what we see is consistent with the idea that Jenny was gaining increasing control over Laura. If as you said Jenny killed both her child and herself, then (contrary to what the OP said)the girl that Laura saw on the train could not have been Jenny - unless she was a ghost. Perhaps Jenny's spirit was just inside the house, or perhaps her spirit and/or that of her dead child got into the doll. I don't think the husband was possessed, though he was certainly a bit uncaring. His main concern appeared to be work, though his wife was obviously having serious problems. If we accept that the girl on the train was not Jenny, then it could have been just coincidence that the couple moved into her old house.

One main problem of the "postpartum psychosis" interpretation is that we see Laura behaving strangely even before she had the baby - and in fact even before she discovered that she was pregnant

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