You've got to take heroin every day for two weeks to become addicted enough to go through withdrawal. For a heroin addict to have a one day relapse then go through withdrawal all over again, like Benicio del Toro did in this film, is totally b*llsh*t.
shareI thought about that, too, and then wondered if he'd not been gone much longer.
Edit: And, how did he withdraw the first time? He wasn't taking methadone. Maybe he never really quit...
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he was addicted to crack not heroin, thats why he didn't use methadone in the methadone clinic. As soon as the crack high fades withdrawal symptoms kick in, thats why crack is such an addictive and dangerous drug.
what is *beep* is that after Brian left him the first time he pulled out some leftover crack. there is never any leftover crack.
No, he was addicted to heroin, not crack. And the OP was right: the portrayal of the withdrawal was totally inaccurate for a 1 day relapse.
As a recovering addict myself, I frowned when it was happening. I tried to rationalize it by telling myself I had misunderstood the timeline but the truth is, though I really enjoyed the movie overall, I think they just dropped the ball on that detail.
And by the way, methadone is not necessary to withdraw from heroin. It is only one option. Many addicts kick the habit the same way addicts of any substances do, through weening or the pain of plain old cold turkey.
A lot of us consider methadone as much of a problem as any other addiction and don't want anything to do with it.
I used to work for a pain management specialist and I agree with the take that methadone is just as problematic.
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Methadone is called liquid handcuffs.
Cause it's just not cool to be a Nazi anymore baby. - Half Nelson
I've heard that you can kick heroin, but once you get on methadone, you never get off it.
shareMethadone is like legal heroin. Oh I don't know, but from the documentaries I have watched about heroin and methadone, they say methadone is almost impossible to break.
Cause it's just not cool to be a Nazi anymore baby. - Half Nelson
My brother got on methadone for a pain killer addiction (which he definitely didn't need) and he won't get off of it. I got addicted to heroin (I binged for about a month on the stuff without really recognizing how much I was doing) and I went through withdrawals without methadone. It makes me sad cos he tries to convince me that he "needs it" but I'm a bitch and I tell him coldly that he doesn't.
I haven't seen the movie but I'm empathetic to its plight and felt the need to post.
When life hands you lemons, you clone those lemons and make super lemons.
<SLOTH>
Niwewenakupenda wrote: <<It makes me sad cos he tries to convince me that he "needs it" but I'm a bitch and I tell him coldly that he doesn't. >>
I know your post is old, but it made me sad and angry and I had to respond. You do not help your brother by (and I am using your words) being a "bitch" to him or by being "cold." Seriously -- has that helped him? Has he changed? According to your post, he hasn't. Your being a "cold bitch" isn't working. It hasn't helped. I don't think it ever does. A lot can happen in two years and I hope for everyone's sake your brother is clean and healthy.
Whatever he is, don't judge your brother. Just try to be a supportive sibling. Let him know that you will help him when he is ready to get clean. Remember -- you are not your brother. Your experience is not his; his is not yours. Be kind, not judgmental. Let him know that you love him, no matter what, and that you know he will get clean one day. Tell him you believe in him -- give him something to live up to. Your post just broke my heart, I am telling you. I would die before I treated my brother the way you say you treat yours.
They never gave a timeline for how long he had relapsed for, how many times he used and he was only clean for about a month.
Then again it was supposed to be a documentary on heroin addiction, huh.
I liked the film but agree that they went overboard with the withdrawl after his short relapse. It seemed to me that it was done merely for the effect on screen. Kind of lame, as I'm sure they were aware that someone doesn't go through that type of withdrawl after only one or two nights back on the poison.
shareGoogle Debbi Harry and heroin for a real world view.
shareI'm an emergency room nurse and I see a lot of people come in taking methadone, most because it's prescribed for pain, some for narcotic withdrawal.... and you are right... they are very adamant about getting their methadone on time because they need it. I understand when you say you are just trading one habit for another. Don't forget Lortab etc. the "legally" prescribed medication that people are on. I saw one girl come in to our ER that was having shakes and the jumps from not taking her Lortab. So, I understand and I didn't mean to go on like that but what I wanted to say is, don't let this one part of the movie bring down what is an excellent piece of work and amazing performances by two wonderful actors.
You scorpion woman!Ron Burgundy
Some people who have REAL chronic pain gets labeled as an addict. I know someone who has Multiple Sclerosis, she's 60 years old and has never abused anything, but she was treated like a drug addict by new doctor who would not give her the pain meds that she has been taking for over six years. She ended up in the ER and ER doctor there pulled her records-pharmacy fills, and basically called her new doctor a quack!
shareThis is a dead good point. Couldn't have said it better.
The important part was to show the family and friends supporting him through it.
@fleescot
"there is never any leftover crack."
ROTFL
So, you have to use it during 14 days? I can't be 13 or 15? Who is perpetuating a myth here is you, who cleary don't know what you're talking about...
Beware The Ladybeetle - Free game developers team - www.beware.co.nr
As a recovering addict (6 years sobriety) I can tell you that one relapse will not cause withdrawals, however it is much, much easier for a longtime user to get re-addicted than a newbie. The physical mechanism of addiction is in fast forward mode for previous addicts, I'm not sure why that is true. All I know is it was much easier and took far less time to get physically addicted in the times after my first addiction and withdrawal. That doesn't mean that what is depicted in the film is accurate, I haven't seen the film so I wouldn't know.
As far as methadone goes, it is just state-sanctioned addiction. People get on methadone and (most) never get off. There is a far better solution besides cold turkey (which isn't treatment, it is simply withdrawal) or methadone and it's called Suboxone (or Subutex). For those still struggling with addiction or mired down in the ball and chain that is Methadone, look into Suboxone... it might be your lifeline.
"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus
Congratulations for your will to take out of this addiction. Everyone with enough life experience, even without "in and out" experience on the world of drugs, know that there's "addictions degrees" that is personal. I mean, it's ultimately personal, how many shots ones need to became addicted and how many shots ones need to get re-addicted, it's depends on many many things...
The OP is right to say that: "It don't take just one shot to re-addict someone", it most work with most people (is good to know it's the same with you), but it's not a rule. It's false to say that everyone in the world needs the same amount of drug to became addicted. Before a physical addiction there's the psychologic addicton. There some drugs that if I use it once again, specially depending on the "enviroment" and my personal mood, I will get an straight trip to my own scapism...
Once again, I hope the best for you against this thing, and for everyone who is taking the courage to beat this monster...
Beware The Ladybeetle - Free game developers team - www.beware.co.nr
audrey's clothing changes several times between the scene where she knows jerry is gone and the scene where she shows up at kelly's work to thank her. sometimes it looks like she might be wearing the same kinda blue shirt, but a different jacket (one scene it's red, another it's black). you can't say for sure, but it looked to me like they were trying to show at least some passage of time, more than one day.
The muffin factory is CLOSED!
there was clearly a time lapse in the film. He was gone for several days, not just one. They never explicitly said how many days, He was just gone. You're assuming things that aren't there.
I'm trying to make a movie here...not a film! (Eddie Murphy, BOWFINGER)
correct.
shareYa, as a recovering heroin addict, I was bothered by all the inaccuracies depicted here, though I enjoyed the movie. So much of it just does not ring true, most of which has already been mentioned. One thing I don't get is this: why wasn't this guy brought to detox? I mean, he agreed to go to rehab AFTER he had already detoxed. And, if he was even a tenth as sick as he was made out to be, there is no way he would have stayed in that room, going cold turkey with just tea and an an antihistamine at night to help him. Be real! He would have been out of there, no doubt about it. And as someone who has been to a couple of thousand AA and NA meetings, I can honestly say that I have never seen a movie that accurately portrays what goes on at meetings and how people behave and what they say. This one is no exception, although I have seen a lot worse.
shareWhat did they get wrong about the NA meeting? Interested to know cos I always wonder about these scenes in movies and as I've never been to such a meeting myself (or GA or AA) I can't really know.
Is it just the atmosphere? Is a real meeting as supportive as they always seem to be in these movies? Or are you just talking about details or how the meetings are run etc?
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I thought so too as well he only used for a day.
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i am watching the movie now. i agree that no one would get severe withdrawal sypmtoms fom a one use relapse.
misinformation about drug abuse is rampant because of movies and because of people who spout and repeat information about things they know nothing about. that being said, i do know about opiate addiction and have this information to share:
opiate facts....
i suppose the time table for addiction is different for every individual. the main point is to never ever start the addiction ball rolling in the first place by never ever abusing any drug and doing some research on EVERY drug you are prescribed (even doctors can be "drug dealers").
physical withdrawal from heroin happens if you use it for only 2 days in a row. physical addiction to anything other than an opiate is a myth.
withdrawal from crack, coke, speed or anything other than an opiate is more psycolcogical than anything, although that unmotivated tired feeling sure does not seem like it is only in the mind.
methadone, heroin, opiate pain killers of any kind all produce horrible withdrawal sypmtoms.
methadone is the most addictive, use it once and you will have terrible withdrawal sypmtoms in 24 to 48 hours and YES it can be like liquid handcuffs if one makes it that way.
suboxone is also an opiate mixed with opiate blockers. subutex is suboxone without the opiate blockers. they also are highly addictive yet the withdrawal syptoms are milder, they have the potential for abuse like any other opiate, and can be as much a ball and chain as methadone.
rx opiate pills need to be taken for a few weeks, give or take, before you would notice any major symptoms depending on how much and how often they are taken.
prescribed methadone, suboxone and subutex are highly successful treatments to help keep addicts free from illegal behaviors and illegal street drugs.
people who illegally re direct their rx drugs to anyone they are not rx'd for, and people who buy rx's illegally on the street are the big problem, not the methadone or prescription drug.
if someone you have heard of died from an illegal dose of methadone mixed with other opiates, the fault lies with the drug dealer who illegally sold it to him and with the person who knowingly ingested too much of a very dangerous substance not prescibed for them.
family members and loved ones of now deceased drug overdose victims like to blame the death on the drug, methadone clinics, methadone patients and drug manufacturers in general, or the lawmakers who put this valuable drug treatment in place! they want to blame it on anything but the untreated addictive behavior of the deceased addict. it is like blaming a drop of water or the ocean for a drowning.
even if the meth was prescribed for them, it is up to the patient to take it as directed as with any prescribed drug.
methadone used properly by a recovering addict, is a good thing. if a person is going to take methadone, to be successful, they must stop using ANY drugs to get high and address the problems that make them decide to use drugs in the first place. this is recovery. it is not easy, but it can be accomplished if the addict wants to recover.
Question specifically for people who have been addicted to heroine:
Is the withdrawal scene an accurate depiction of physical withdrawal?
Not talking here about whether his relapse was one day or two weeks, just asking about how the physical withdrawal is portrayed. Looks like it took days of deep physical suffering.
The reason I'm asking is that when I have clients who are heroine addicts or recovering heroine addicts, they tell me they get together with their user friends to go through the withdrawal process together for support. They do this at regular intervals they say because they tend to use more and more until it starts to have respiratory effects and they get too close to overdose. So they go through some withdrawal to bring down the tolerance again so they can get the high without going so close to respiratory difficulty.
Every heroine addict client I've had has minimized how difficult the physical withdrawal process is to me. "Oh yeah, I can do the physical part." They tell me it's the emotional part that is the real suffering--that going through the days at first without medication, even after physical withdrawal is finished, is like asking someone with a broken leg to walk around without a cast and without pain killer. Adapting to life is the hard part, they tell me, not the physical addiction.
What do you think? Is this true?
good question. your head is never right. that is why they go back to it, they minimize how much they need for alot of good reasons (physical safety and financial), but it is hard to feel normal without it no matter how little you do or have done. i suppose your clients' minimize the physical withdrawal and it's severity because when it is over, you forget how much it hurt--like labor and child birth, i have heard it time and again and i have experienced childbirth and it is true that you forget the pain when it is all over and done. some addicts in recovery choose to or cannot help but remember the pain and use it to never forget what caused it, and use it to stay clean.
why don't they just go thru the w/d and leave it at that? the truth is that you never ever feel normal (mentally, mostly) again, and to get on with living, you gotta have some of it in your system. the depiction was close, in the movie, but honestly i only caught a small bit of the scene. it is not like that for the duration, you have some quiet moments but not much.
the physical part drains you of every ounce of humanity you have---both physically and mentally. every part of your body turns on you. you are sweating like you are runing a marathon in high humidity 90 degree weather. you yawn and hiccup. everything your body can do to disrupt simple things, it does. your muscles and bones hurt. it is impossible to keep food down even though you are hungry, your nose drips, you spend alot of time on the toilet or wondering if you need to get to the toilet with a ton of tissues and a puke bucket. your skin crawls, your hair hurts. you get the 'jimmy legs' (and that sticks around long after the withdrawal) only the 'jimmy legs' are amped up to 'intolerable by any standard' level, you hack and cough because the 'tickle' in your chest is much much more than a tickle. your lungs feel like they are filling up and closing up. you are starving and dehydrated. you are shivering and jerking, you are sleepy yet sleep deprived because your cough and the rest of your symptoms won't let you sleep no matter what you take besides an opiate--and if you do have a bottle of codeine cough medicine or some narcotic pain killers, they won't work unless you take alot more that just the prescribed amount. for heroin, the worst of the physical sickness is over in about 3 days, but you never feel quite right for at least a week, maybe more--no ---you just never feel quite right again in varying degrees, but never again severe like the first couple of days--you just get very few normal days. this sickness and feeling not quite right may be much more sever for someone who has been using for a long time. for methadone, everything about withdrawal is worse -- time-wise and sickness-wise and if you have been on meth for any length of time, the most severe part lasts alot longer. you feel more hopeless, than with heroin withdrawal, and the low degree of sensitivity to pain seems like it is more prevalent.
and the mental part of it----
i suspect that since you are starving and wracked with pain, spasms, dehydration and such, your mind will not be right. you can hallucinate, you of course can't pay attention to anything for more than a second, your temper is on the edge of insanity. after a while, after the worst of it subsides and you manage not to go out and use, you will always have aches and pains that are more than just aches and pains. there is alot of depression, feelings of anxiety and the joy in life seems to be turned down to the last notch before it is not there at all. anxiety is always lurking. sleep is not as fitful. your outlook feels bleak no matter what happy thing is going on. oh, it is not all the time these feelings, but the incidence is much more frequent.
you will always feel tired and unmotivated, listless, and old no matter what your age. it is never the same, your life, your mind and your body.
a damned good reason to never mess with opiates in the first place.
oh sure, there are ways to get the old you back. it takes alot of fight and not everyone is able to do it. changing nutrition and exercise habits, becoming obsessed with health the way you used to be about getting high is a good comparison, but being obsessed about anything seems to be the last thing you will ever feel again. the gratifiction is never instant like it was with drugs and then you know where leads - the trail back to that rotten drug behavior - that addictive personality that got you into trouble in the first place. but is it the personality that does it to us? or maybe the habits we acquired during our upbringing? i'm sure it's only part of it.
my personal opinion is that once you start the opiates, for whatever reason, though it may only take one bottle of pain or cough relief from a dentist or a doctor- but something happens in our brains where the receptors or endorphins are turned off and our body becomes incapable of producing the substance that gives others the motivation, the energy, the ability to bear aches and pains well--the ability to feel normal. hence the addict has to use an opiate just to feel normal, to feel like they did before they ever had a pain killer or that first hit of heroin. i think that it is not a matter of inner strength or fortitude but an absence of something bioligical about and addict that causes this craving for the opiate. or it is even possible that the body never produced this and the opiate gives them what they never thought possible to feel, think and act normally. i think more serious research and study, as well as education about what an addict is or is not is needed rather than have people who have no clue decide what is and what isn't for those of us stuck in opiate hell. yes the addict must be responsible for what got him/her here in the first place and own up to the mistakes they made, and fix these mistakes, yet being blamed 20 years into a successful recovery, being followed around by the stigma invented by those who have no knowlege of addiction is ridiculous. like i said, research into the bioligical aspect as well as mental, is much needed.
if you have ever seen the movie "the good thief" with nick nolte, the scene where his character is withdrawing from heroin is the most real i have ever seen, and i think because he has really been thru it. another movie--'requiem for a dream' is all about drug abuse and how it fools everyone into believing it is not a problem. there were some small things about that movie that were inaccurate as far a heroin abuse, but for the most part it rang true.
i write all this in the hope of keeping someone---anyone even just one person, from trying that first hit of heroin or from taking any opiate, even from a doctor. it takes your soul and replaces it with nothing. to any one who may read this, stay alive, keep your soul joyfull and stay away from this junk.
i hope this helps. my apologies for any typos, my keyboard sticks and i am tired.
new edit:
i just saw the movie again and i would have to say that the addiction and withdrawal displayed was just about as real as it can get, but if he used only once, i doubt he would withdraw like that. i think he had those withdrawal symptoms because he used continually and rather heavily (for being clean up till then), for 2 days or even a little less and that would probably do it to a body. he was right when he said that the first high is the one you always chase and never get again.
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first of all I'd like to address something that one of you said in another post:
"methadone is the most addictive, use it once and you will have terrible withdrawal sypmtoms in 24 to 48 hours"
That is TOTALLY INACCURATE. no no no. If someone who ISN'T on methadone or addicted to opiates takes it, they get very sick because it's too strong, but definitely not withdrawals.
I have been on methadone for 3 years. And for anyone to say that it is a terrible drug, YOU ARE WRONG. There are definitely people who shouldn't get on methadone. I think you should try every other way you can before getting on it. Like, If you are just addicted to vicodin, then no, you shouldn't get on it, but It saved MY life completely. I had been doing heroin since I was 16 (I'm 24 now). I was in and out of rehabs and detox too many times to count. Didn't work. Then I got on Suboxone, was on it for one year, and was smoking weed and drinking the whole time. It just didn't work for me. SO then I ended up getting strung out again. This whole time everyone was saying "don't get on methadone, it's terrible, blah blah blah"...So I said F it, and FINALLY at a last ditch effort, I got on methadone and have been clean from everything for 2 years! And I am a wonderful mother to my beautiful 5 year old daughter. If I hadn't gotten on methadone, she wouldn't have a mommy.
congrats and good for you and your recovery!
people say to methadone patients 'when you gonna get off that stuff' and 'methadone is bad, it kills' but methadone has saved alot of lives and you are a shining example. it may not be for everyone who needs help with opiate addiction, but i can say for sure, it is a godsend if you use it and don't abuse it.
anyway, it is not the drug that kills it is the fool who abuses it and has no respect for it that is the cause of many deaths. that is like saying let's outlaw automobiles because of all the fatal accidents, when it is poor and wreckless driving-(and people that do not respect the power of the wheel they sit behind) that causes the fatalities. people who have no knowlege of methadone other than the image of a nodding junkie have no business preaching about it----and people who are not working your recovery have NOTHING to say about that either! period! good for you. mommy! stay strong and do your best to teach people who want to learn the real facts about methadone! keep on keepin' on!
i mentioned 'requiem for a dream' on the post before this and i wanted to say that doctors who hand out pills unwittingly start many on the road to addiction. that movie is a goood example of that-ellen barkin's character gets diet pills from a doctor (which spirals out of control) while her son gets mired in heroin which he thinks he can handle (he cannot). but this is for another post. the moral of this paragragh is: research anything a doctor says you should take! it is not their bodies they are messing with, it is yours!