MovieChat Forums > Noriko no shokutaku (2006) Discussion > A good movie but a childish one

A good movie but a childish one


Kumiko has serious psychological problems, she lives in a fantasy world, you can fool others emotionally but sooner or later the fake memories and contrived emotional world will come crashing down.

Noriko and Yuka display enormous selfishness and total lack of regard for their parents' feelings. Perhaps this is an indictment of Japanese culture where parents don't show as much overt emotion and affection to their children, but they clearly didn't know how good they had it. Maybe their father was distant, but we saw several times how he genuinely cared for his children and worked hard to provide them with opportunities in life. These kids were not abused nor living in some sort of hellish reality they needed to desperately escape. The callousness and ease with which they abandoned their parents is very troubling.

Noriko is so deluded she tells herself that a fake father figure, a paying client, is her real father. And the motif running is that she can create her own reality. Yet her existential crisis and the resolution to it seems so contrived and unnatural that it's hard to feel any real sympathy for her. I found my sympathies resting with her parents (and I don't have any kids myself).
She cries for a fake father, yet not a single tear or thought for her real father who is frantic trying to find Yuka and her. She has accepted an illusion for reality and the false for truth. This will damage her.

"Are you connected to yourself?" - this runs throughout the film and the prior one, "Suicide Club". This existential question is something I think any mature adult with any sort of spiritual development and thought life has considered. One doesn't need to run away from home, sever all families ties, or take on a multiple personality disorder to be in harmony with themselves. This film could have dealt with this issue in a much more profound way so ultimately it is a disappointment with the director.

Kumiko and the Suicide Club bringing on the "collapse of civilization" is absurd. As usual with cults they grossly inflate their own self-importance and look for extreme solutions to human problems.

The rationale given is that since people fail in their social roles the answer is to "lie openly and pursue emptiness". This is really simplistic sort of thinking and nihilistic. It ignores the reality of the human condition and our emotional complexity and purpose in life.

These girls drove their mother to suicide, but they are so deluded and caught up in their fantasy world they probably don't care.

Yoko says when finally meeting Mitsuko again, "I knew she wasn't my real sister anymore." YES SHE IS YOUR REAL SISTER! Your very confused sister. Ugh lines that like just really irritated me.

I see what the film maker is trying to do in this narrative but it goes against the way people really are and is more a caricature than a genuine human portrayal.

Mitsuko is a heartless bitch. The way she treated her real mother who wanted to reconcile was infantile and deplorable. She needs serious psychiatric help.

The way this film deals with existential pain is to run away, to escape into an imaginary role. Not very insightful or healing.

The way Mitsuko casually watched with utter indifference as Broken Dam is murdered by a client shows she is sociopathic. She has disconnected herself from humanity. Her words about helping people are shallow and false. She has no interest in people beyond how they can assist her in playing out roles and spreading her diseased nihilistic philosophy.

The scene of the 54 high school girls committing suicide by jumping together in front of a train is done in a mocking way. It trivializes the pain and suffering of people who are depressed and take their own life. They don't cheerfully smile and yell happy slogans as they end their life. There is nothing profound in this narrative. It is an affront in fact.

After Tetsu's emotional plea during his reunion with Yoko and Norito they bitterly reject him and keep up their delusional roles. He then kills the four men from Mitsuko's organization and Mitsuko returns calling for them to make dinner and stupid Yuka and Norito happily oblige, oblivious to their father's extreme anguish and the blood now all over the room. Yoko and Norito are not liberated, they are extremely mentally ill and need help.

At the end Yuka runs away (again), ostensibly forever this time, and we're expected to believe she has had some sort of cathartic moment of cleansing. Really dumb. She is not dealing with her problems in a mature way, this is how I'd expect an 8 year old to deal with an issue not a 16 year old.

Overall this was a good film, solid acting, a definite narrative (though not a terribly interesting or redemptive one), good cinematography, but it trivializes some serious issues and deals with them in a childish way. This film offers a nihilistic picture of family dynamics and an escapist resolution. Nihilism is an empty philosophy for fools. Perhaps Japan does have such a high suicide rate because of films like this. It certainly does not help anyone who is feeling lonely, depressed and suffering. In fact this film is even dangerous in that it glorifies the abandonment of all family and social ties, ignores spiritual development completely, and extols a fractured, unhealthy, deceitful emotional state.

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Thank you for posting this. It was a very good read.

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Welcome!

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Why do you think we are supposed to sympathize with Kumiko and her philosophy? That's not how I see it, it's not a glorification of nihilism. Not to me. And I don't think it's offensive to depressed people either, it's not supposed to be a realistic account of how and why some individuals commit suicide.

I think the movie is much more subtle than you give it credit for.

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As one who suffers from major depression I can tell you it is very offensive. Of course it isn't meant as a realistic portrayal of people suffering with depression, but that's irrelevant. The way it shows people committing mass suicide is very flippant, irresponsible and trivializes a very painful state. The Kumiko narrative is given central importance in the film so of course they want us to sympathize with her. I think the movie is not as subtle as you think in some points. It is a silly movie in the final analysis. It's easy to make such a film and find no shortage of film viewers who will try to read in substance that just doesn't exist. The nihilism component of this film is significant and touches every facet of the character development. How can you deny that? It is totally glorifying it. The whole message of the film is to lose oneself with abandon, especially if you have suffered, to turn your back on your family, on even your own Self, to commit barbaric acts with cold ease (murder, suicide) and be lost in the emptiness. This is one of the most nihilistic movies ever made in fact and I've seen over 30,000 films so you're very wrong on this point.

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"The way it shows people committing mass suicide is very flippant, irresponsible and trivializes a very painful state."

That was a plot-device establishing Kumiko's power and ruthlessness. It does not intend to trivialize suicide by individual's in the real world. Sorry but I find it rather navelgazing and self-absorbed to take offense at this. It literally has nothing to do with your depression and it doesn't intend to.

"The Kumiko narrative is given central importance in the film so of course they want us to sympathize with her."

You are asked to understand her, not to embrace her philosophy. The movie Se7en doesn't encourage the viewer to hand out biblical punishment either, it just explains the motivations of Kevin Spacey's character, to give you an example

"It's easy to make such a film and find no shortage of film viewers who will try to read in substance that just doesn't exist."

That's a tad disrespectful.

"he nihilism component of this film is significant and touches every facet of the character development. How can you deny that? It is totally glorifying it."

Did you watch it all the way to the end? I'm not denying it has nihilistic themes but the end explicitly negates your assumption(s).

"The whole message of the film is to lose oneself with abandon, especially if you have suffered, to turn your back on your family, on even your own Self, to commit barbaric acts with cold ease (murder, suicide) and be lost in the emptiness. This is one of the most nihilistic movies ever made in fact and I've seen over 30,000 films so you're very wrong on this point."

You seem angry at this movie for personal reasons, I'm sorry but this movie isn't about you.

Strangely I thought it was very tender, poetic and even a bit heart-warming. I don't have a family, since we're being personal here, and this was a therapeutic watch to me. I didn't take the same things from it as you and I experienced it completely differently, don't tell me I saw it the wrong way. I don't care how many movies you've seen.

I don't mean to sound harsh, if you didn't like it, fine. But tone it down a bit.

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I'm pretty sure it's anything but a glorification of living disconnected from yourself. If anything, that IS the entire conflict of the story: Noriko and her sister slipping deeper and deeper into Kumiko's ideology. If Kumiko isn't being portrayed as the antagonist then there is no real point to the film.

It is a nihilistic film, yes. However, I feel that it is more a film ABOUT nihilism rather than a film attempting to coax its viewers into thinking that way. The whole time, yes, you are rooting for Noriko, but you're rooting for her to snap back into reality and rooting for Kumiko to just go away.

I'm a warrior queen, live passionately tonight.

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Oh, man, you're so right. It's disgusting when fictional characters behave in deplorable ways that fit the story in order to prove a point.

Like you said, family rental and the I.C. Corp is basically a cult. Cults get into people's minds, they do irrational things. Such as: abandon their family, commit suicide, recreate your personal reality based on what you are being told.

So, that Noriko over the course of a year or so began to be able to view strangers as family and family as strangers isn't a result of her being a petulant jerk, it's because she's being brainwashed. And her being lonely, believing Ueno Station #54 to be an incredible person who would save her and generally seeking escape makes her a great candidate for being brainwashing by Kumiko. The set of the finale is basically an attempt at deprogramming. Remember the girls of their former life and try to snap them out of it.

So, when pretty much all the characters act like emotional zombies, make poor choices or act like things are okay when they're obviously not it's not because the movie is promoting nihilism or saying THIS IS EVERYDAY LIFE, ALL THE TIME. It's because the characters do have intense emotional problems that get worse and worse as the movie progresses.

If anyone watches this movie and says, "Hey...this is making some pretty good points." Then they shouldn't be watching movies, because they are way too impressionable and don't understand that characters don't always act in the best way BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU TELL A STORY.

I HATE MOVIES!!!!

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Hans't it occurred to anyone that Sono makes these films as a social critique of the collapse of the family unit, and doesn't really endorse it? The same way that Cronenberg makes films about people who have bizarre sexual fetishes?

Just sayin'.

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It's a very good analysis of this movie and extremely well written. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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