I enjoyed The Dark Knight more, the ending of Rises seemed to be rushed.
shareI love both of them but I give a slight edge to TDKR because it was more emotional and it focused more on Bruce. However the joker was a better villain than Bane
shareIMO Its not even a question
TDK is one of if not the Greatest CBM ever made(I have Logan, TDK and The Avengers tied for #1)
for me, TDKR is Good to very good but Levels below TDK
I have TDK rated 10/10
and TDKR as 8.5/10
IMO TDKR ending is extremely weak and IMO had the movie been made by another director other than Nolan, The ending would have been Hated and MOCKED...
Tom Hardy's Bane Is truly Great IMO(although a step below Ledger's Joker)
Overall...
The Dark Knight Rises just had The Unfortunate task of coming after and being the direct sequel to a film that Just couldnt be Topped in TDK
I personally think Nolan should be praised by Making a movie as Good as TDKR in The shadows of TDK...
for example, I think Whedon had the same Problem after The Avengers and didnt even get CLOSE to the same Quality with Age Of ULtron as Nolan did with TDKR...
so I'm in no way trying to make it seem like TDKR is a disappointment or Nolan didnt achieve something great...
for the TDKR to be as Good as it was, For Nolan to even get somewhat close in closing out the trilogy on a really high note in TDKR after TDK was incredibly Impressive
I had TDK Trilogy as my favorite and best CBM trilogy of all time until recently.....
But for me I now have The Captain America Trilogy #1 and TDK Trilogy #2
overall though TDK is Clearly a step or 2 better than TDKR
I agree on it not being as good as TDK however I disagree about if it was a different director the ending would have been mocked. To me that falls in line with oh well the reason critics hated Batman V Superman dawn of justice was because they are marvel fanboys who will down vote anything dc...
Projecting is silly. Maybe you just don't like the ending and everyone else is fine with it.
Projecting is silly. Maybe you just don't like the ending and everyone else is fine with it.
^^^
Thats Literally Word for Word what i said....
note that I specifically added "IMO" before making the statement I made....
I'm in no way stating my Opinion as fact, I completely recognize that TDKR's ending is liked by the Majority, I'm just stating That I personally Believe had anyone other than Nolan made the movie, I believe The ending would have been hated and mocked...
See I don't follow that logic. So if the ending was completely the same but someone other than Nolan directed it would be seen as bad? That sounds like a blind DC fanboy's type of excuse. Oh the reason critics hated Batman V Superman Dawn of justice is because they are biased Marvel fanboys who will downvote anything because it's Dc... Or maybe the movie was trash? Maybe people just enjoyed the ending and Nolan's name had no bearing on them enjoying it?
shareSee I don't follow that logic. So if the ending was completely the same but someone other than Nolan directed it would be seen as bad?
^^^
Because I feel Nolan has a following that is extremely influential....
Now with that being said, I'm in no way saying his films arent great....
Nolan is tied for me 2nd favorite director, He's Literally Made some of the greatest films of all time (IMO) and I also believe the facts back that up as well...
But I feel The ending of TDKR would have been completely torn apart had it not been done by Nolan, Batman Retiring, Faking his death, Leaving his "Mantle" to someone who literally doesnt have 1 skillset to be Batman, and at best would need a minimum of 10 years of Training in Martial Arts just so he could handle himself in The situations Batman would be in is just something I cant comprehend, I literally dont know hw that even got past the "hey what if we do this" stage, and finally I just dont see any other Director getting away with The "Tricking/Lying to the audience" during The Last shot of Batman, When Batman is Towing The bomb out to sea, we cut to a shot of Batman in The cockpit With literally 5 seconds on the clock, This was literally a CON...This was only intentionally put in to CON the audience, the only possible thing that could have justified that scene, was to reveal how Batman escaped the cockpit and somehow managed to to make it 5 Miles in less than 5 seconds to escape the Bombs Blast radius...
There are 3 unforgivable mistakes made at the ending of this film that not only doesnt make sense but literally Goes against The 75 year + history of The character in Batman Retiring....... goes against The Laws of Nature in How Batman escaped The Cockpit and got away from a nuclear bombs blast radius in less than 5 seconds, and we have to accept Batman not only retired but pretty much sentenced Blake to death but handing over his "Mantle" to a completely unqualified and Unskilled successor that would be Beaten to death and Killed literally in his first mission as Batman if he didnt take a decade to train
IMO(and please note this is ONLY my opinion), I absolutely believe that Nolan got a pass on the ending on TDKR because Of how great the overall trilogy of films were, I also think The over overwhelmingly majority of critics are NOT comic book readers, so didnt understand how impossible it is that Batman would quit and retire, how it goes against everything the characters is and his history, They also certainly dont have the knowledge one would need to Know The Level of training A character like Blake would need to take over and be a functioning Batman, again we are talking Years in at least 3 different type of Martial Arts....So While The critics may have felt The ending was good or right for the ending of a movie or a trilogy, IMO They didnt have the knowledge to understand Just how AWFUL the decisions made at the ending were .
and as I said earlier, Nolan fan base is Insane, In fact in 2012 It was borderline a CULT.
The Dark Knight Rises is a universally praised film Loved by the overwhelming Majority...I fully recognize that and am in no way trying to pass my opinion off as facts
This is solely my opinion, I just personally feel Had any other director made TDKR, The ending would have been torn apart...but due to Nolans Extreme fans and His Incredible and completely deserved accomplishments the awfulness of the ending was overlooked.
and its no it doesnt sound like "Blind DC fans"....Because Those Blind DC fans actually present their conspiracy theories as FACTS
They actually claim "everyone else is wrong"
Thats not even remotely what I'm doing, I fully accept and acknowledge that The overwhelming Majority Loves The movie and ending, I'm not claiming "I'm right and everyone else is wrong"
I'm simply giving an opinion that I fully accept is just my own thoughts and could never be proven
Batman retired even in some famous comic books. So no that is not a betrayal of the character. Second thing is this a comic book movie being accurate or inaccurate has no bearing on the quality of the film itself. Just because something is in the comic books does not automatically make it good by default. Some liberation can actually sometimes make a film better. It can sometimes make it worse of course but sometimes it can in fact improve things.
The reason it does not matter if the critics are fans of Batman is because it should work as a film. For instance BVS albeit a terrible film has lots and lots of comic book imagery and story lines it attempts to squeeze into the film. Thing is if you treat an audience like they have to know all these things beforehand it makes a lot of viewers including critics left out in the dark and scratching their heads. I hear all the time people go well this comic book is classic just read it and it makes BVS a better film. Oh so now you can't just watch a movie you need prior knowledge to justify and make up for it's poor story telling? Just because you throw in a comic book image or story line does not mean it will work or complement the narrative in your film. It has to make sense for the film you are making on a cinematic level. Comic books and cinema are not the same thing.
Batman retiring happened in The Dark Knight Returns as well as in Batman Beyond which was a continuation of Batman the animated series.
Batman retired even in some famous comic books. So no that is not a betrayal of the character.
^^
I now question if you understand the history of Batman.
Of course Batman has retired in comics.....Theres not much Batman hasnt done in comics, if you wanted to you could point to almost any possible action or act of any kind and find some comic where it has happened
but thats not even remotely what "It goes against the history of character" Means...
for example, When Man of Steel first came out, there was a huge outrage against Superman Killing Zod....
audiences felt and had the belief "Superman doesnt Kill"....
then came the hardcore DC fans defending the movie, where They found in a few very, very early comics a few times Superman did Kill or could have been "Perceived to kill" and Then came The "Superman has killed in The comics you idiots" defense...
the problem with this is, 99.9% of The General Public audience is Embedded with the CORE thoughts and beliefs "Superman doesnt kill"...
all the movies, TV shows and comics they've ever read "Superman Doesn't Kill"
the bottom line is, 99.9 % of Superman's comic canon is under the "superman doesnt kill" rules
When Life long comic readers think about Superman, his history and Principals, They dont think "Hey remember those few times superman may have killed in a few lone issues, When thinking about and talking about who Superman is and what he stand for, It is a Universal consensus "Superman desnt Kill"....
that is his "Character" that what defines him....despite being able to point to a few times in might have happened in the comics
Having Superman KILL....goes against The history of the character!
that Is an exact Equal to what you are trying to say here with Batman retiring...
to think Batman would retire and leave his Mantle to a completely unskilled and unworthy successor at the worst possible time when Gotham needs him most in the immediate aftermath of a disastrous city wide take over that He was very much responsible for due to his Weapons and Technologies being taken over and used to hold the entire city hostage ending in a nuclear explosion so he can "selfishly" go "Be Happy" and live with his girlfriend, directly goes against everything that defines the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne
again can you point to stories/issues where Batman has retired, sure some, but does any of those story have Batman retiring in a way that completely spits in the face of everything the character is known for and has stood for....lol no
Batman retiring is not the problem, Its the way he retires and how it goes against everything the character stands for....
So at this point, again I got to really question if you understand the character of Batman....simply saying "Hey Batman has retired in comics before" or in your case "Batman Beyond" and saying it as a justification that its "In his character" is just completely astonishing to me...
i dont want this to turn Mean or anything, so I'd like to just agree to disagree
I understand Batman rather well. I have read to Killing Joke, Batman Year One, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Hush, and The Dark Knight Returns. I have not read every comic in existence but since I could form words in my mouth I have always loved Batman. So simply because I may not agree totally with your assessment of the character does not mean I do not understand him...
Now onto Man of Steel. You like many others missed the point on why that movie failed. Let me come out and say it Superman killing is not the reason the movie sucked. The movie's narrative and story structure did not support what was being displayed on film. In Batman Begins it establishes that Batman does not believe in executing a criminal and it is the compassion that separates us from the criminals. This scene was great and it is hammered in by the line he says of I will go back to Gotham and I will fight men like this but I will not become an executioner!
Where in Man of Steel was a no killing rule established? All that movie is is speeches about how he will become an ideal to strive towards. We hear about the character but do not see any character. When he kills Zod he screams out in agony. We are left with this question why? Does it address it in the film? Nope in the very next scene it is completely forgotten about. Had the film actually been well made and gave a no killing rule of some kind him screaming out in agony after killing Zod could have been a great gripping moment. If it was handled well no one would have given that such a hard time. Superman 2 he kills Zod why do people not flip out? The film was well made therefore even if you hear flak about it is it anywhere near the flak Man of Steel got?
If your film is well made with a strong narrative and it is done effectively people can accept a liberation taken. See you have a rule book of this is how Batman has to be um no there are many ways to interpret this character.
Batman Beyond is a continuation of Batman the animated series. Bruce gave up the mantle to someone else. I was showing you that him giving up the mantle to a new person obviously worked in another version of the interpreting the character. Batman Beyond is well received by the public as well. Batman the animated series is considered a great Batman interpretation. Honestly it is considered by a lot to be the most accurate depiction of Batman even more so than any feature length live action film. If it worked for that why is it off limits for Nolan to even try passing on the mantle?
I know the universal consensus is that Superman does not kill, same goes for Batman nowadays. Point I was making to you is just because you go against a universal consensus does not by default make it bad. Sometimes going against the consensus can make your version have more originality and depth.
Why would it turn mean? I have not insulted you once, it is just a debate among fans. It is simply a film after all.
Will The Joker have to be added to the discussion?
shareThe Dark Knight. Best comic book movie of all time.
shareHeath Ledger certainly gave the most iconic performance but the TDKR story resonated with me more. TDKR has some similarities to The Wrath of Khan which is one of my favorite films.
shareHow I rank the trilogy:
The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises
The Dark Knight. I still think it's the best superhero to date. Rises has it's flaws but it's a better film that many give it credit for.
shareDK. DKR is junk
share