a no brainer in my opinion. not that the oscars matter much at all, but it seems so phony that these foreign films are competing under a separate category. why don't they just rename best picture of the year to best american picture of the year? tsotsi is a far better film. far better. and it's not comparing apples and oranges either. it's far better.
shareDon't you have the feeling that the Best Foreign Laguage Film is actually the only award that has any prestige? Come on...just look at some of the nominees... Munich and then compare that to Paradise Now. Have a look at the nominees for Best Actor and then compare that to Presley's startling performance... apr
Seldom do the oscar winners and nominees mean 'great picture'. just look at past winners like Gladiator, Titanic or A Beautiful Mind... Of course soemtimes they get it right like American Beauty or Brokeback Mountain. And a lot of the nominees were actually good films like Match Point, Constant Gardener, A History of Violence or Syriana. But most of it is just hype and some films might as well show up at the Razzies (i.e. Munich, Memoirs of a Geisha, King Kong or Capote).
The Oscars have lost it still living in a time when the best pictures actually were made in America (the time of Taxi Driver and China Town).
The Oscars are propaganda *beep* Nothing more. (I only suggest listening to verdicts in Foreign Film, Best Animation (why o why didn't Miyazaki win)and the less prolific ones like Documentary, Short Films and so on).
Okay the Oscars are the kickname for the Annual Academy Awards. What is the "Academy" you ask...It's the short name for the "American Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences" or AAMPS for short.
The pictures, awards, clothes are then geared toward American Entertainment Industry audiences and what they like. It's not an international award, it's not even an American public award and if you think that it is then you misunderstand it's purpose.
It's not about what's the best from the view of general film audiences it's about what the artists and people in the entertainment industry here like and their acknowledgement of what films they feel are quality. Sometimes these don't communicate to a wider audience just like a Leon Shuster film my hubbie might funny may make me (an Asian American woman) sick so obviously I'm not the audience for that either.
Each major film making country has some equivalent filmmaking organization and equivalent awards like BAFTA in England, and they show their own preferences as well.
Look for your local version of the "People's Choice" where normal people vote I think there is one group in Jozi that does it, and I also think 5FM has one too?
Remember these things are all concensus viewpoint of the group that votes not society at large.
Good Luck,
Valerie
First of all i say Tsotsi was and is a superior film to Crash in story, acting and cinematography. But i was disapointed at the incomplete list of Best Foreign film. This list should have had C.R.A.Z.Y., a quebecois film (excellent, i recommend it highly). Also, the film Water, set in India. I swear, there is a conspiricy against canadian filmmakers, Les Triplettes de Belleville should've won..!!!
shareI disagree. I think Crash had a much better Screenplay. They both had equally touching stories and Tsotsi arguably had better overall acting. Perhaps it's because I can relate more to the experiences in Crash.
shareand i disagree wit u, tsotsi wuz brilliant
shareI have not seen Tsotsi. I just want to stand up for Crash. Crash is an example of the Oscars getting it right. It is an engaging film which tackles the issue of racism perfectly. It is clever and has a great script. At times it is funny while at others it is emotionally moving. Films with that sort of plot tend to be a mess but this is far from it. None of the performances could be called great but they were all good.
All of the films it was up against were very good films and deserved to be nominated (excluding Munich, possibly) but Crash was the rightful winner.
Everyone is always saying about how Crash is a bad film and that it is an unworthy winner but very few can say why.
Both films are brilliant, and both deserved their oscars. The acting in crash is superb and non-linear script made for a really gripping experience. Tsotsi was gripping because of its nature, and how much the viewer becomes involved with its characters. I was truly touched by some of Tsotsi's scenes, particulary the one that showed Tsotsi sitting with the baby and looking over the city as the sun set behind it. Paul Haggis may not have had such stunning scenery to photograph for Crash, but it is beautiful in other ways. It had such high production values, and was fantastically lit. It looked and felt so classy enabling it to delivery a hard hitting message without ever really feeling heavy. Just because Crash had big name actors and was made in America, doesn't mean it should be seen as less creditable than Tsotsi.
I agree with kill westlife123, I've seen lots of threads where people try to criticise and pick holes in Crash, but I've never seen any valid reasons that made me reconsider my opinion about it.
To me, visuals never trump good solid acting, story, and writing. Maybe the cinematography WAS compelling. I don’t remember. I haven’t seen it in a while. But the acting in Crash was so damn phony to me. (I don’t mean to be nasty to those of you who enjoyed that film.) The characters simply editorialized their perspectives of racism throughout the whole movie. That, inherently, weakens the drama. Editorializing in films is boring, to me at least. This caused the dramatic moments of Crash to appear forced and undeserved. Tsotsi did the opposite. I’d be really surprised if people left the theatre feeling equally moved by both films.
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Don't forget, though, that other countries have their own version of the Academy Awards. England has the BAFTAs, France has the Césars, etc... America's awards, though they are the most publicized, aren't the end all be all of cinematic recognition.
shareyou, my friend, took the words RIGHT out of my mouth
sharei totally agree. crash is a phenominal movie. every thing about it was on point. it had the best cast acting the year it won and i believe terrence howard got snubbed out of supporting actor nod (yeah i said it!!). on the other hand i haven't seen tsotsi and from what im hearing it is excellent. but come on u cant knock crash....at all.
sharecrash is so heavy handed thats why. i felt like the word RACISM was being pushed down my throat at every opportunity. the ideas and intentions were good, just how it was all put together didnt stand up to it. tsotsi i enjoyed far more
shareCrash was about racism, I agree, and it certainly was a good filmm and RACISM was shoved down your throat. I think Yesterday was a better film that Tsotsi, I think it is unfair to compare Tsotsi and Crash. Crash did everything right, non linear story telling, good directing, acting was ok...ish. The reason I was not impressed by crash, which is also the reason why I do not understand what the hype was about is the fact that even though Crash was about racism, it didn't enlighten, it didn't add anything fresh or refreshing to the debate or interracial dialogue. It was about racism and the classic definition of racism that most rational and reasonably people think is wrong. I did not see racism from a new perspecttive, it did not change my perspective of other people, it did not enlighten me or give me a new perspective on why people hate or stereotype. It only confirmed what I already knew, racism does exist. It was, despite the nonlinear storytelling and funky shots really a very one dimensional movie. If people got enlightened by that movie, it really means they lived very protective lives or never stopped to listen to the debates going on for ages now.
Do I think Tsotsi was better, no, it was a classic tale taken from a book written decades ago when that type of storytelling was still done, the end was rather predictive, either tsotsi would have been shot or he would have been arrested, after he started taking responsibility for his life and actions. I am also familiar with the life of a tsotsi, everyone in SA is. But at least it reminded me that these thugs just might be redeemable no matter how small that chance really is.
A no brainer in deed!!!
Only not in favour of Tsosti... but in favour of Crash.
Tsotsi was a good movie, no doubt. In fact, everything about it was good. But their weren't many things that were GREAT. The most important of course, being the story. The story didn't take me anywhere I didn't expect it to go. The plot was very flatlined. Crash was intriquette, exciting, and surprising. Crash blew Tsosti out of the water.
Not to mention, it's originality. Tsosti seems to follow the same style as City of God. Only, City of God was a FAR BETTER picture.
I purchased Tsosti for 27.99 cause I thought it would be a truly Great film. I'll be trading it in tomorrow. It is a GOOD movie... but it doesn't come close to films like Crash or City of God.
Brokeback Mountain was way better than both combined :P
shareI've seen only Crash. And found it... interesting! But way too predictable..
shareI havn't seen Tsotsi, but i have seen Crash - and i absolutely loved it! Now, I am going to see Tsotsi here soon, and expect good things from it, however, I seriously doubt it should be better than Crash. (I make that statement b/c i've seen City of God (which many of you say is even better than Tsotsi) but I still thought Crash was better than that as well) And, on a side note, City of God was an awesome film as well. But I do think alot of you on this board are wronge - you don't give crash enough credit. It truly was a GREAT film and a definate example of when the oscars did get it right. I thought the acting in crash was superd and along with every other aspect of the film. To me Crash just shows "how people effect people" - it's as simple as that, yet still such a powerful and moving film.
shareIf you like "Crash" better than "Tsotsi" then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but how can you say that "Tsotsi" follows along the same style as "City Of God"?
They are nothing alike at all. Not one bit. The only similarities is that they are both foreign films, but us Americans shouldn't just see a film from another country and then tie them all together. "Tsotsi" was about a thug who was changing for the better, but the thug in "City Of God" wasn't thinking about changing. He never felt remorse, and what was so disturbing was that he seemed to actually be enjoying what he was doing.
That hotel scene was pretty sick when he was a kid and shot the people up and then started laughing. The guy on "Tsotsi" never did that. "City Of God" was a great film, and so was "Tsotsi", but they weren't alike. They were two completely different stories, both being very good.
I agree, Tsotsi was by far the better film. As usual, the foreign films were better than the english films. Last year, The Sea Inside and The Motorcycle Diaries were by far the best films of the year. Life is Beautiful was the best film a few years back, and how the hell Amelie didn't win best picture,or get nominated for that matter, I'll never know. Same with City of God. I'm sick of the bloody Oscars. But I guess that's typical of America. They think the Super Bowl is the greatest spectacle on earth, meanwhile its an overproduced four hours of a 60 minute match of a second-rate sport. I hate that country.
shareWell, I saw Tsotsi - and i really liked it. what an amazing film - pretty emotional. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it. I even liked Tsotsi as much as City of God. However, I do stick to my original position - "Crash is better than both". (In my opinion - of course)
shareI've seen both films, and, I believe them both to be truly remarkable films in their own ways. I think that Tsosti was more realistic and less contrived than Crash. I think both films told an incredible and touching story, which to me is the whole point of movie making. I also found the acting in both films to be superb and was stunned to find out that many of the actors in Tsosti had never been in films before this movie. I suppose it gives me hope that one day I to might be discovered!
If I had to choose, I mean really really had to i would go with...
Tsosti by a narrow margin.
"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."-John Wayne
Tsotsi. Simply because it is more captivating, and its not from hollywood.
shareAnybody who thinks Crash was good is a complete idiot. This movie shows up on every message board because smart people can't believe you idiots fell for its *beep*
Football is king. F you limey. Your boys choked again in the World Cup. The US has a better chance of winning it than you losers.
yo u hit it right on the head. ive got both of those movies and they both change my experience on how i view movies. to add to that list of similar movies, i believe requiem for a dream can hold its own with those.
shareI am so glad you said this. Crash was a mess. From the very beginning where Sandra Bullock is afraid of the black guys walking toward her, and while the audience thinks, geez racism sucks...then they subsequently carjack her! So many things bugged me about Crash, it was all so orchestrated.
When I saw Tsotsi I was reminded of what Crash could have been as well.
i liked crash the first time but then i had to watch it 2 more times for a class and realized that it didn't resolve anything. yeah, it's great that it brought up all kinds of rascism but what did it do about it, very little.
i still LOVE don cheadle's line in the beginning about how we crash into one another and such.
<I have mastered the art of not giving a $-h-i-t>
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Tsotsi had one scene that really nailed it, Crash had three I think (atleast)
My answer is "wrong question, friend"
:-)
Crash is overrated and recycled
shareCrash is not over-rated. It is disquieting.
The scene with the flames, the background music, realistic characters...
In 2 hours, it manages to convey a whole lot without really preaching or framing irony
How is it recycled? Name a better film with a similar bent of mind?
Crash v Tsotsi. piss off. Crash was decidedly average, Tsotsi was superb.
share[deleted]
I haven't heard of the films you're speaking about. Is that a problem? I think not. Why would I care about something I don't know about? And how would I know about them? And if these films are supposed to be that good, then why are they not famous? I should have heard about them. I think I watch many movies. Crash is a disquieting spark of brilliance and I CARE IF YOU ARE GONNA DISS IT.
Why would I care about something I don't know about?
That's called learning, your question is called ignorance.
Crash was race relations brought to you by wealthy white people, and had all the depth of a crepe. I'm looking forward to watching Tsotsi, but can't say anything about it until then.
Well, I choose to celebrate my ignorance. Im not gonna make any excuses and blame my country or circumstances for it. I hold my verdict above anyone else's, just like I think everyone should. I've seen Tsostsi and I've seen Crash.
T gets 7/10
Crash gets 9.3/10
I've watched Crash thrice, Tsotsi once.
What's wrong with wealthy white people? That they're wealthy? they're after your money? Dude/ Dudette - I think every man in this world is for himself. I do not hate anyone who stands up for himself/herself. And I'm not shallow enough to actually hold prejudice against a movie just cause a certain cet of directors made it. I'm not a goodboy and not one of those nicey nice people but Crash had something really good about it. It was human and morally congruous. I found myself correlating to it in a few ways. It's theme is universal. It's heart is right. It's intention is clear. It does just what it sets out to do. It won the Oscar. And damn, if ever there was a bigger "Period" than that.
late reply, I know. I have nothing against wealthy white people...i am one :) It's just that the makers of Crash clearly have no experience with their subject matter. I'd probably be unimpressed by a movie about my own demographic made by Ugandan women, for the same reason. And sorry, the Oscars are a joke.
shareI agree that foriegn language films should get more attention, and get to be nominated for best picture, Actually I think they should have a Best american/english picture award and change best Picture to include every movie as it's name suggests. Though they do nominate some foriegn movies right? didn't crouching tiger Hidden Dragon get a best pic nom?
Anyways, back to how much Crash sucked.
Crash was so busy trying to point out racism that it resorted to using nothing but racial stereotypes.
Every black character is either a drug addict or a gangbanger, the middle eastern man turns into a bloodthirsty psycho and apparently can't read english, The only hispanic character comes from a "bad neighborhood" where people shoot through his daughters window, the asian characters are bad drivers who work in slave trading, and every white character has some form of deep seeded hatred and mistrust for everyone else. Boy, that movie sure sounds like it's helping destroy racism.
In fact, I would go as far to say that Crash was more racist than Birth of a Nation, unfortunately though it wasn't as interesting, unique, or well made as BoaN. Apart from that the only good actor in it was Terrence Howard, even Matt Dillon and Don Cheadle did poorly in Crash (and who was the moron who thought Brendan Fraser would be able to act? his inclusion should automatticaly prevent Crash from being taken seriously by anyone who respects filmmaking).
Tsotsi, on the other hand had an interesting plot, good actors, believeable dialogue, and the characters weren't so one-dimensional that they could've been played by cardboard cutouts (which is more than I can say for Crash).
Tsotsi: 8.8/10
Crash: 3.5/10
And capote was a very good movie, and Hoffman deserved that oscar, to whoever badmouthed that.
"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em then hurt the team by beating yourself"
-Sage Francis
I would have to say Tsotsi.
I am not usually a fan of international films but this one had me captivated from beginning to end. It really struck a nerve.
Crash i will admit was alright, but I struggled to get through it. I watched it until the end, i kept hoping it would get better and live up to its reputation.
Tsotsi in my opinion is the far superior film and more than deserved its oscar and believe it should definately have been included in the mainstreen Best Picture category!!!
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