Is it realistic of the South African crime? - Tsotsi (2006) Discussion

[–] foreignrabbit 17 years ago

hello blueeys. im a resident of pretoria. what you have to understand about south africa is that while crime here is extremely bad. (the movie over exagerates nothing) it's mostly people who do not take neccasary precautions who fall victim to crime. crime is also focussed on certain areas and there are places where lawbreakers cant be found.

dont be put off by the crime. this is a beautiful country with a lovely array of people, languages and culture.

Borrow money from a pessimist, they don't expect it back

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[–] lesroys 17 years ago

I agree. When I saw the man in the station take out his pay packet to pay for the scarf, I gulped, "Why would he do that?". Call me paranoid, but even when I'm in Pick N Pay I count my money inside my bag, always looking over my shoulder, and near enough to the amount owed that I only have a few rand change which I put in my pocket.

Although I didn't find it unrealistic (there are still some terribly trusting people out there!), many crime victims are simply a little careless.

Thank God, I have not been a victim (touch wood), but I am ultra-cautious.

NB: LOVE this movie!

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[–] Sweet_Blazin 17 years ago

Omg that's crazy!! I always take out my wallet to pay but then again I live in Canada. I don't think its right to say the victims are simply not being careful, because it puts blame on the victim and not on the criminal. Therefore the situation will escalate. I think its horrible that you have to be so careful. You should not have to live your life in fear!

I remember 15 years ago nobody used to lock their doors, on their houses or cars, now everyone locks even to go inside a mall. So yes I understand what you're saying about being careful. I'm careful too, however I deeply resent the fact I must keep my doors locked at all times. This would have been okay if it were a temporary situation but there is no evidence that it will go away. I'm afraid a day will come when we here in Canada will have to be just as careful as people in SA. I guess what I'm saying is: We should not fear the criminals, the criminals should fear the law.

In some countries they put criminals on death row for minor offences and use them in organ trade. I believe that is wrong. That is not the way to deal with crime. What would be a much more effective measure, would be to limit the population of criminals. This can be achieved by limiting the number of children a criminal, drug addict, or prostitute can have. Basically we look at those individuals who statistically are known to produce the most criminals and start there.

Recently I heard a sad story about a drug addicted parent who had 7 children all born with mental and/or physical disabilites, did not work but instead collected money from our government for taking care of them. This should not have happened. Another case where a prostitute who had 8 kids, the 3 eldest sons (still teenagers) were caught carjacking.

It's stupid and senseless and we need to do something about all of this. We cannot let our societies fall apart and deteriorate. Criminals are like cancers. They rob, kill, and rape you because they don't know how to produce what they need so they take it from you. If you are not there to provide for them, they would die themselves. We need to understand that parenting should be left to the responsible, and the irresponsible should be taken care of by society but not given the same rights until they choose to free their minds. Parenting is a privledge not a right.

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[–] purplesmurfwench 17 years ago

The fact of the matter is that we, as South Aricans, should be able to take out our wallets in public and not get robbed, hence the crime here IS very bad! Yes we are all supposed to be precautious, but being precautious does not prevent you from falling victim to crime either. The comment about different areas being worse is very true, Johannesburg and Cape Town come to mind as being the most crime centred (i lived in Johannesburg for two years), although that is because they are the largest cities, thus there are more people to become victims of crime. All towns have crimes obviously as well. Although the movie unfortunately did not exaggerate our crime situation, and didn't look at rape at all, of which we have one of the most obscene rates in the world (as it didn't affect the plot line), it also didn't show all the very beautiful aspects of South Africa. The people here are unlike anywhere else in the world, most are extremely helpful and friendly, and can be quite over the top, which can lead to much amusement, especially since most South Africans can laugh at themselves. Our wildlife and nature is exremely beautiful as well. So, yes, crime is very bad here, and is a con, but South Africa has many pros too.

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[–] bttrwr6 16 years ago

No man, Joburg myself, and to say its cool if your clever about it simply is not true, South Africa has more deaths a day than Iraq, and thats a damn warzone!! Theft and what not is higher for tourists because they simply do not know the south african way, its not a safe place for tourists and with zuma mugabe as the new tip of the ANC's spear its going to get much worse

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[–] emmamaria 17 years ago

Yes, the crime rate is really bad in South Africa. I grew up in Johannesburg and now live and study in Stellenbosch (about 40 minutes drive from Cape Town).

My poit is also that it really depends on where you live and what kind of crime you are talking about. Hijacking and rape are probably the worst forms of crime at the moment in SA. Would others agree. But this is much worse in urban areas. Where I live in Stellenbosch, the crime is actually no that bad.

To others, crime is so stereotyped in SA but the worst manifestations of crime are actually related to black-on-black violence and domestic violence amongst all races. Unfortunately, we still live in a VERY patriotic society (especially amongst the black rural households) and this is why rape, domestic abuse and violence towards woman and children is such an issue for us. Women are generally also more poor than men and women of a working age contract HIV/AIDS at a significantly larger rate than men of the same age and poverty. Our unemployment also stands at about 40% which really doesn't help for crime.

It all sounds very gloom, but we are steadily building the capacity and policy to deal with these issues. All that we lack really is significant implimantation of these policies by government at both national an provincial level. This is probably the largest challenge we face politically today.

Not meant to lecture, just wanting to give more clarity on the overall situation. You should really make an effort to visit though. It is beautiful and the exchange rate is 7 rand (R 7) to the dollar!

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] emmamaria 17 years ago

Lekker!

Where have you visited in SA?
You should come party in Stellenbosch, its the best place in the WORLD!
It's breath-takingly beautiful, rich in famous wineries, a fun-filled university town, and it's only 40mins drive from Cape Town! Crime is so much less of a problem there (here, I live in Stellenbosch). You have to be cautious, but not more cautious than any other place like New York or even London, for instance. Carjacking is much more prevalent in Johannesburg than here anyway.

Hope you save up enough to come visit again, I am so happy to call South Africa my country and home!

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] emmamaria 17 years ago

Oh, that's so SWEET!

Funny how that works, we South Africans have a way of nabbing foreigners. My uncle was working as a tour guide in and around Cape Town and roped in a beautiful Swedish woman who was part of one of his tour-groups. She is now my aunt and the mother of two georgeous boy cousins!

I am a third-year student at Stellies finnishing off a BA in Humanities. I plan to do Honours in Sociology next year. I have no desire to study anywhere else other than the fact that it would be good to get experience in another academic environment.

The Garden Route is amazing, one of the many unique things about this beautiful country!

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[–] nickyboy90210 17 years ago

I was just in South Africa and loved it! Yes, crime is much worse than a lot of other countries, especially compared to Canada where I live, but as mentioned above, you need to use your head and be cautious. SA is unbelievably beautiful and the locals, as a whole, are warm and friendly. There is still a lot of work to do, but there is a palpable feeling in the air that things are getting better.

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[–] QMan000 17 years ago

I have never been to South Africa but think that while some places can be dangerous it is all about being cautious and I think a lot of crime there is overblown and stereotyped. I live in the US, specifically in Eastern MA and the crime here can be quite bad too, I live in a smaller city near a very big city known as Worcester, it is the third largest city in the region and has a lot of bad crime. My older sister lives there an has seen a young man shot down and killed in the street, during the middle of the Day! A friend of hers has also been the victim of rape and many people I know have been mugged. Unfortunately it seems crime here is often overlooked by the media, which can be good but also leads to a lot of people not being cautious enough. I always lock my doors and keep my eyes open as there are a lot of gangs in the area. Urban areas are always more dangerous of course, if you go to the Midwest in this country small towns are where everyone knows each other and there is one policeman in town. Tsotsi terrified some people with it's portrayal of brutal crime but that same stuff happens here too.

"Quiet Brian, I'm Sleuthing"
***Family Guy***

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[–] hannelie4-1 17 years ago

Yes, and worse. The media does NOT tell EVERYTHING. I have a friend who works for a national newspaper. He told me that they get paid to shut up sometimes.

Here are some links:

Click on the "LINKS" on the left side.
http://southafricasucks.blogspot.com/

http://www.dienuwesuidafrika.com/

This link is about our "future".
On the right-side are some other video-clips. Not even our farmers are safe.
http://dienuwesuidafrika.blogspot.com/2007/04/die-suidlanders-inligting-dvd-januarie.html

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[–] Roboplegic_Romcock 17 years ago

I visited South Africa as my final destination on a round the world trip thingy, and my first city was Johannesburg. I have lived in quite a few rough places in the UK but I have never felt as frightened as I did when in Johannesburg. There are just constant warnings about not going out on foot and horror storys about what has happened to people. The owner of my hostel told me that they had to go to the policestation to pick up guests who hadn't heeded warnings and had been made strip completely naked at gun point.
The flipside of this is that South Africa has some of the nicest people I have ever met in my life. I visited townships and villages in the Transvaal region who had nothing who would still treat you like they were happy to meet you without having their hand out or any other agenda. Even walking around Soweto, you got a feeling of a happiness that went outside of money and it was really fascinating even though I did feel bad for walking around like someone in a zoo.
The country is just beautiful.
Out of all the places I have ever been, South Africa was by far the most interesting and watching Tsotsi made me really really miss the place and the people which is odd when you consider the themes.
I also noticed that Johannesburg seemed infinitely more dangerous that anywhere else, even Cape Town. I walked around Cape Town with only a mild trepidation. Would people from South Africa agree with this?
I'm generally a nervous paranoid wreck anyway...

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[–] jsanderson3-1 17 years ago

"Would people from South Africa agree with this?
I'm generally a nervous paranoid wreck anyway..."

People from other places don't agree with you. I can't believe one would go around the world with trepidation.

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[–] Roboplegic_Romcock 17 years ago

"People from other places don't agree with you."

Shouldn't that read, "This person doesn't agree with you"?

"I can't believe one would go around the world with trepidation"

This was a light hearted comment about how I'm a bit paranoid due to years and years of ill-advised drug taking. Being of a slightly nervous disposition certainly hasn't had me travelling the world with 'trepidation'. I purposefully went to places which other people considered dangerous. Bogota for instance is allegedly one of the most dangerous places in the world but I went there as I'd heard so many great things about it and loved the place, changing my flight to stay there longer.

But are you seriously telling me that Johannesburg isn't a very very dangerous place? Black people in Jo'burg themselves told me that it didn't seem wise that the world cup will be held there in just a few years. Black people themselves said that as a white person, it was unwise to go out on foot without an escort. However nothing altered the fact that South Africa (including Jo'burg) was one of the most fascinating places I have ever been to. I generally found places considered 'very safe' to also be very dull.

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[–] jsanderson3-1 17 years ago

First of all, this is a movie based upon a novel written by Athol Fugard in 1989. Remember, films are about suspending belief and this is not a national geographic documentary, but a work of fiction.

Secondly, cities are cities and my experiences in SA (Joburg and CT) were absolutely amazing, and I felt no more uncomfortable than in LA, NYC, or some Italian cities and I definitely felt more comfortable than in Moscow for instance. The ever-whining Boers (like the ugly, racist, ignorant Boer jerk who put up sasucks.com) are extremely bitter, and to now here them complain about the crime they perpetrated from treating black people like animals is hysterical. The western news agencies are quit to cite what is wrong with African countries because they think its sensational, but SA is one of the newest, most progressive countries on the globe and is well on its way to working its problems out, with or without the descendants of the benefactors of apartheid. Go eMzantsi, go!

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[–] Jack_Blank 16 years ago

I live in a house with 7 other students in, what i think is the worst city of crime in SA, Pretoria!!

I live in a supposedly good neigbourhood (1km from the University of Pretoria), which is targeted by criminals suprisingly a lot. We litterally had to turn our house into almost a prison after having 4/5 break-ins in about 6months!

My car radio has been stolen twice, and was mugged 2 times at knife-point where my cell phone and all my cash were stolen.

Maby Im just unlucky, but paranoia is my life! You have to watch behind you a lot!

But, besides my extreme (maby not always neccesary) paranoia. SA really is a great place and I love it. And I agree with what Col. Coetzee said in Blood Diamond, that Africa is in out blood and for that reason I will never leave!

O, and sorry if I made Grammer or spelling mistakes. My first language is Afrikaans, and only talk English when I really have to!!

Totsiens vi al my SA maats!

TIA- This is Africa

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[–] snippie 16 years ago

Wow, it does sound like you have some really bad luck Jack. I also live in Pta, have lived here for almost 10 years, and (touchwood) neither I nor my family has ever been a victim of crime. We live in Pta North, in a quiet section, so that helps. However, dont take this as a sign that crime isn't that bad in SA. I've witnessed three smash 'n grabs, and many of my close friends have unfortunately been victims of armed robbery, muggings etc. It's a crime ridden country, but I agree wholeheartedly with those who say that there's far more good than bad here. Where else can you live that has such diversity, beautiful landscapes, cheap movies... Oh, and don't forget- Amarula and Biltong! I love this place. Geniet jou dag Jack_blank! Lekker swot!

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[–] etherealscourge 16 years ago

quote:The ever-whining Boers (like the ugly, racist, ignorant Boer jerk who put up sasucks.com) are extremely bitter, and to now here them complain about the crime they perpetrated from treating black people like animals is hysterical. The western news agencies are quit to cite what is wrong with African countries because they think its sensational, but SA is one of the newest, most progressive countries on the globe and is well on its way to working its problems out, with or without the descendants of the benefactors of apartheid. Go eMzantsi, go!

What a gross generalisation on your part, not all Afrikaners are like that. In fact, if you'd stop using derogatory and inflammatory adjectives like "boers" you would maybe meet some of them. Naturally I can go generalise and say something like "all soutpiele are aloof snobs who benifited from apartheid, are racists, and biased and the above is typical English Racism" but luckily I know it is not true.

You are a sad little person you dumb idiot. Not all Afrikaners treated black people like animals. Just like not all English whites did. But that is the old story, some English South Africans find it convenient to play the blame game while reaping the benefits of apartheid, yet did nothing themselves to end it... hypocrite.

And yes, the person who put up SAsuks is a typical racist. I have met many English like that as well, although not many of them are as honest about it, they would not mention it in "politically correct" conversations. But boy, just here them on a Saturday after a braai.

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[–] Mr_JM84 14 years ago

South Africa is working it's problems out ? huhh i don't think so, the problems in South Africa are getting worse and South Africa is going to end up like Zimbabwe in the next 20 years.

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[–] samuel-84 14 years ago

100% accurate of TOWNSHIP LIFE. I own several restaurants and employee a lot of people who live in local townships. As of 15/07/2010 this movie is a very accurate portrayal of the crime. If anything has changed, it may be that vigilantism is more rife and mobs will blindly attack suspected criminals killing them - which itself is ridiculous and increases the crime stats. This brutality is mainly limited to the townships and urban areas have definitely cleaned up since this movie was released.

Anywhere you have a vast spread in wealth, you will have crime.

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[–] rafiqi 14 years ago

The townships are not shrinking but growing, at a rate of a million blacks per year. Blacks control less than 2 percent of the Johannesburg Stock Exchange's total capitalization.

This is a recipe for social unrest and high crime rates for many years, perhaps decades, to come.

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