MovieChat Forums > Old Joy (2007) Discussion > Anyone else think it was going to turn i...

Anyone else think it was going to turn into a Hitchcockian murder deal?


Spoilers ahead, obviously.

When they first were both in the water relaxing, it was incredibly beautiful and meditative. Then the bearded dude got out and told his story, which was kind of interesting but at the same time bugged me because I wanted to go back to the reflective moment that preceded it (which made me think of the other springs where talking was forbidden--maybe that was the point?).

Then comes the neckrub scene. I had the impression the bearded guy was a little imbalanced, and the other guy seemed a little alarmed ("hey, what's going on?"), so there was something in this filmic language that to me set off an alarm of "uh oh". Like the bearded guy had decided that if their friendship wasn't the same, if his friend was sinking into what he perceived as some domestic hell, he should just kill him to put him out of his misery or something.

Obviously that didn't happen, and this was meant to once again be a relaxing scene once the initial discomfort faded. So it's too bad I was tense through that whole part as it seems it was not intended by Reichert. Was this a weird quirk on my part, or did Reichert inadvertently give a cue that other people responded to as well? I'm curious to know if I'm the only one.

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Wow, a whole year goes by, and no one responds. Kind of like Old Joy!

To answer your question: the feeling of dread in this film is so-o-o intense. I can't recall any other film of any genre, in any era, where the sense that something really bad was going to happen built--and built and built. Roger Ebert's review talked about this vague...threat, which (I suppose) is so intense because nothing that goes on in the movie justifies it on a rational level.

Perhaps--this is a guess--non-Oregonians familiar with The Vanishing were reminded of it? Old Joy *does* have that "we're going on a road trip--to Hell" kind of feeling; and the similar tension between the two people may explain the dread.

Hope you see this response someday.

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I did see it! Thanks. :)

I do kinda want to re-watch sometime, secure in the knowledge that it is just a mellow ride fraught with nothing more perilous than the social awkwardness between two friends who are drifting apart.

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Ha, glad I checked this board again. You *should* rewatch it. On the second viewing, my sympathy for Kurt was much greater.

The first viewing, you just assume that Kurt may do something bad or at least inappropriate. But the poor guy does nothing at all except maybe smoke way too much weed. Even that, he manages to navigate well.

I *so* wish Kelly Reichardt wasn't so withholding. This emotional coldness in her filmmaking is not at all compensated for by her love of nature. A critic on this IMDB board commented that it would have been unnatural for the dialogue to include backstory; and that's true. However, dialogue that may have included backstory--Mark's job, Kurt's manner of subsistence, etc., the unquestionable homo-eroticism that seems to motivate the trip--would have made a haunting film a really great film.

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Interesting take. I definitely see room for this film to be greater than it was. But I don't know that I can sign on to the critique generally of Reichardt. If you go to the list in my sig, you will see that I have her film "Wendy and Lucy" in my top ten (specifically, seventh). Have you seen that one? I did not find it emotionally cold at all.

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Ha, I've not only seen Wendy and Lucy; I lived it. Wendy and Lucy is perhaps the single-most underrated film of the last decade--and I am positive it's because the protagonist is female. In a strange way, it reminded me of Brokeback Mountain, in that poverty is at least as much the "third man" (or "third dog") as the need to simply keep one's head above water, to survive. (I find it homophobic rather than celebratory that Brokeback Mountain was hyped as a film about "gay cowboys.")

I again would disagree about Reichardt's emotional withholding, however. Her films strike me as almost...cruel? Would that be the word to describe the utter lack of backstory and dialogue? I'm not talking well-made scripts; I'm talking necessary exposition. Wendy is dirt poor. She is as emblematic of women in her situation as Mark and Kurt are of college-educated thirty-somethings in their situation. I think possibly Reichardt mistakes silence for naturalism. It may be that, but then there is also the matter of what a filmmaker owes an audience who pays to see her films. (Unfortunately for me, Meek's Cutoff was the first for which I had the opportunity to do that.)

And this isn't a quid pro quo; and it also isn't that people such as I complain about the exact quality that makes Reichardt great. It's a matter of human beings needing to communicate (in Wendy's case) pain-beyond-pain--at some point. Such a communication or expression need not be a scenery-chewing angst-fest. Michelle Williams absolutely conveyed a not-very-bright-but-very-sensitive-poor-anonymous-girl exquisitely.

All I'll say is that in the dark period when I was Wendy, I didn't make small-talk or hold forth in Shakespearian soliloquoys about the Lucyless end. I did however convey the void; and I do wish Reichardt had allowed more of that with her masterpiece.

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Anyone else think it was going to turn into a Hitchcockian murder deal?


I did think that might happen!

I also thought that maybe it would slowly turn into this uber-gay movie at one point as well.

I just kept thinking that at some point in the movie...something might happen.

But no. Nothing happened.

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Personally, I don't really mind that nothing happened. I just felt a little regretful that I was "watching it wrong". I still intend one of these days to rewatch, secure in knowing it's just mellow all the way through.

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I think I missed out on any homoeroticism in the massage scene because I was so caught up in the murder that was about to take place. I was sure that Kurt was going to slowly drown Mark.

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Haha, that's ALL I remember from the film -- the homoerotic aspect. It's funny what we all take away from it. I just remember a super-boring film about two dudes who don't do much and get handsy in a hot tub.

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Just a note to say I enjoyed reading this exchange and laughed out loud a few times.? Unrelated--I will have to check out this Wendy and Lucy film.

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I kept thinking that it would turn into something, but alas it never did. It just got weirder and weirder.



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