It's thier own fault


I don't believe for a second that they were just going to Afghanistan just to "help" as they stated in the movie. What a bunch of bull. And everyone who is bashing the US for its actions in the war in terror need to look at the whole picture and not just have tunnel vision. The reason conditions were not so good and they were treated harshly was because one, they were very very dangerous people even if all were not how did they know who was and who wasn't? Second, earlier there was a riot in another jail run by the NA and the US. So they had to have very harsh conditions to control the terrorists.

And really, when it comes down to it, the prisoners really didn't have many rights to begin with, the Geneva Convention does not apply to them, as they were not soldiers of a sovereign country and they did not belong to an official army. They were enemy combatants!! Now there are many in the world crying and telling the US to close camp gitmo and all that, but if it closes, where do we put these terrible people? How about we send them to the UK or to the French. I'm sure everyone complaining would just love it if they were in their hometown. It makes me sick that some people care more about these terrorists then some of our own citizens or soldiers. Just makes me want to vomit. And those in the US government who are now giving these bastards Geneva Conventions rights is just wrong. Also not once in the movie did they reference what happeneded on 9/11 and why the US/Brits were there. Just typical I suppose!

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IF they were going to a wedding in Pakistan, then how did they end up in Afghanistan. The tipton 3 never explain that story with any verasity. Nobody in their right mind would go to Afghanistan after 9/11. They were either very stupid or they were would-be jihadist flunkees that nobody wanted.

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Actually, plenty people went to Afghanistan after 9/11. That included people that wanted to help the Taliban, or help to get rid of the Taliban, people that wanted to help the civilians, and yes, rather naive youngsters who didn't think too much about it. I think the Tipton Three explanation is very logical. They were in Pakistan, and decided to take a short trip to Afghanistan to help and to see the country.

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The timeline suggests a trip that was in the works before 9/11 and took place shortly after it(the dates of their movement are like September 11 and 13th and so on and they are travelling by bus a lot). I can see how they might end up going thru with the trip and underestimating the magnitude of the *beep* about to go down.

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After watching the film you have to realise that in the end it does not matter wether they were travelling to Afghanistan just for kicks or for a darker purpose.

This story has one message, no matter if those three had even been terrorists: that it is just plain wrong for a civilised country like the United States to torture people, hold suspects this long without trial, without proper accusation, just because the officials "somehow imagine" that those three could be involved in terrorism.

The laws that uphold human rights have been thoughtfully created by people a lot more intelligent and farsighted than those officials that now disregard them.

Even if the three had been the worst criminals imaginable, you have to accuse US policies of betraying their own values.

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I agree with most of your post, except with the torture bit.
The amount of 'torture' that is needed to break a prisoner, so that he actually tells what he knows, is different per person (he or she for that matter, i'll use the male version here but for no specific reason). For some the very act of putting him in a cell in a strange country is torture, while others can sit through some types of physical torture without breaking.

That means 2 things:

1. A method such as sleep deprivation can be extreme for plenty of people. It can lead to depression and confusion for example. In my personal case, sleep deprivation leads to severe migraines. I can imagine myself saying 'yes, i'm Al Quada', during one of those, just to be able to lie down.

2. You'll never know how far you'll have to go in order to get a person to talk.
There'll always be the temptation of pushing a person just a little bit further. If you allow a method like sleep deprivation, would that mean you could eventually not allow a person to sleep for a week? Freeze or heat his ass just a little more, so that it goes from extremely uncomfortable to actually painfull?

At a certain point, you'll have to decide what the truth, or information, is worth for you. How many rules that protect people's freedoms, and protect them from any type of torture are you willing to break.
My choice is still to keep these so important rules firm in place; no torture, no putting people in jail without charging them and giving them access to the complete justice system.

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Ha Ha?

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Spoken like true fascists-in-training. They don't hate "us." They hate our government, just like I and any sane human being that opposes hegemony and state terror does. So I suppose I am a terrible person that must be rounded up and sent to the torture chambers at gitmo...guilty only of opposing the rise of fascism in America. Get a clue original poster:

"It makes me sick that some people care more about these terrorists then some of our own citizens or soldiers." Tell me who. Who here advocates our citizens or soldiers be tortured at a detention facility? What a right-wing lunatic you are.

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Do you really think resistance forces such as the insugency against US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan would wear targets on their shirts to denote fighting the occupiers? LOL

no but they should at least stop killing civilians. That is the reason why I don't care what happens to them.

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Dear emvn,
It terrifies me and appalls me to see such hypocritical people writing with such conviction that perhaps these three men brought the unthinkable torture upon themselves. (Re: It’s their own fault- take notice that you’ve misspelled “their”). If you want to look at the so-called “War on Terror” let’s examine the other side as to not suffer from tunnel-vision.
Perhaps we should begin with some basic principles of justice:
1) Fairness
2) Efficiency
3) Clarity
4) Restraint
5) Accountability: namely ensuring the proceedings are answerable through fair investigative and remedial procedures
6) Participation: including public scrutiny
7) Protection: through regulating procedures.
The “War on Terror” is not even a war with guidelines. The American Gestapo-like administration is consistently violating constitutional rights of Americans, spying illegally on Americans and servicing “black sites” all over the world. Western democracies have long upheld the international ban on torture but then people like Alan Dershowitz come along promoting the idea of “torture warrants” to be issued by judges. If you think torture somehow benefits or deters terrorism it’s time to escape your tunnel-vision. The gains of torture are much outweighed by the downfalls and if one is to look at the physics of violence one would understand terrorism cannot be fought with terrorism. For every action there is an equal reaction. George Bush has been able to maintain the moral high-ground in his administration’s operation of black sites through his sabre-rattling claims of defending democracy and human rights.
Let’s now look at the way George Bush violates the First and Fourth Amendments of the Constitution through illegal spying on American citizens for the purpose of so-called intelligence gathering to protect against terrorism.
The Secret Court and the Foreign Intelligence Services Act have been more than cooperative in giving Bush all the power he needs to spy on terrorist suspects. The Secret Court has issued more warrants than all federal judges combined, only once denying a warrant. This neoconservative movement has concentrated power in the executive whereby Bush feels he can be above the law when it suits him.
The Bush administration has been caught in illegal spying. Ironically they have been caught red-handed in blatant illegality and they respond by trying to arrest those who exposed the administration’s illegal behaviour. This administration has been and continues to operate with a police-state mentality thinking of themselves as above the law. Notice the parallels of Hitler and his reign with regards to ignoring the law and the courts.
It is a common trend that fear, hysteria and national emergency provide the perfect tools for political power grabs, preying on people in times of vulnerability. It’s shocking however that Bush has not been taken into further investigation, considering his use of black sites around the world to escape US laws on Human Rights, such as Amendments One and Four in the Constitution. The Bush administration is constantly undermining the constitutional rights of Americans by casting off federal laws whilst lying to citizens for nearly four years. It’s interesting to note that Nixon was driven from office because of burglary (which ended up having no consequence), Clinton was driven from office because of adulterous acts which he publicly admitted to, yet Bush has deceived the world; in invading Iraq, detaining (illegally) Americans, torturing detainees and spying on Americans. The standards which Americans deem moral, reasonable and justified are being abused and the social institution which Americans consider their law is being destroyed by the Neoconservatives.
How dare you accuse anyone of supporting the terrorists over American citizens? Remind me now why it would be important to include the events of September 11th in a film that depicts a story of three innocent Britons with NO links to anything related to terrorist networks in the slightest.

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Oh, please... Freedom to disagree?! It's exactly the American government who doesn't understand this word and that there are also parts of the world which don't want to become little copies of America.

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What kind of presumptions are these? So, in your opinion, everybody who joins a humanitarian organisation to help civilians, should be considered a potentional terorist (especially if he happens to have arabic features) whose humanitarian motives are probably just a cover? Come on! You can't really be that prejudiced?
These guys were really young when they went there, they had 3 weeks left before the wedding was supposed to take place, therefore they went to Afganistan to help. They said, that they didn't realise that bombing was also happening in the south of the country - they thought it was only in the north, where it had been happening before.
And Geneva Convention is there for a reason - it is one of the mechanisms that keep as away from going back to the Middle ages, it is one of the foundations of democracy. So please, don't immediately accuse everyone who supports these foundations to be terrorist-friendly. I certainly am not, but that doesn't mean that I have to be radical in another direction.
I am sure that there were (and still are!) also some (or even a lot, I don't know) people held in Guantanamo, who were guilty. But the fact is, that a lot of detainees were not, and yet, they didn't have a single chance to prove their innocence. If these guys in the film would in fact be Al Qaida, I doubt that they would agree on making a film out of their story. Myself, I didn't find the film to be a propaganda for Al Qaida at all. The film is there to point out that a thing called human rights, which are one of our most cherished values (a word that also Mr Bush loves to use), is abused in Guantanamo and above all, some innocent people suffer because of this abuse.

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Translation, please?

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last night I watched some program about turkish who was in 5 years in guantanamo..He went Pakistan for education about religion and later they sold him to Usa about 5000 $..He was 19in this time..And they make lot of torture just for hearing from them that They are terrorist..But He was not terrorist of course..And He said this movie good but it's just showing 20 percantace..Not everything..I remind this ''midnight express''about my country but American people all the time showing that they just true and others not..I also dont support this el kaide or other terrorist muslim's.Coz for our religion it's very big fault..But coz them all people thinking all muslim's like this..But it's of course not truth..

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First Watch ''Loose Change 2 edition'' and later talk about this..We saw how they create lot of silly lie about this crash..Who can say that Usa didnt organize this?U cant blame foreign coz this..

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TO: dwendt 99

It's ok that you want to stop others sending terrorists to you'r beloved country...

...BUT YOU SHOULD ALSO STOP SENDING SOLDERS TO OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE OTHER MAN IS ALSO LOVING HIS COUNTRY AND HE DOOESN'T WANT TO SEE ANY OF U.S. SOLDERS IN HIS COUNTRY.

If you don't stop killing other civilians in other countrys, THEN they will NOT STOP sending terrorists to you'r "beloved u.s."

And you must(or should) admitt that wolfin is right about GW Bush and your goverment(which is one mean killing machine).

If U.S. goverment wants to send some more troops to IRAQ let them send there own sons and dothers...and they will soon change there mind.

P.S. I'll hope that you will see films like "Harsh-Times" or "Bowling for Colombine" and learn something from them.

ASK your self why...
...U.S. had to strike on Afanistan when Russia(or USSR) was in Afghanistan 10or15 years before U.S. trying to end a terrorist rulling party?

You know what US did?
they gave TALIBANS the weapons to fight against russians!

You have to ask your self WHY Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Yugoslavia(my country) , Afghanistan, Iraq and soon IRAN?

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1. I wasn't born in poland, russia, chezch republic I AM FROM SERBIA!!!
translate this "Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava". and this "pusi kurac glupi ameru"
you'll like it very much.

2. MAYBE you should LIVE IN SERBIA UNDER MILOSEVIC (serbian(in that time yugoslavia) ex-president who was(because he is dead now)kommunisticheski pjedik or in serbian KOMUNISTICKA PIZDA) allmost every year we tried to overthrew that f'n comunist. We've were having street wars against milosevic's police.

Police(or milosevic's dogs) were using every force necessery to keep him in power even Tanks and water canons against unarmed people and students. After hevy bombing from world policeman U.S. and U.K. we decided that this is a final drop and we couldn't live any longer under that, 60year old, communist vampire...We(people of SERBIA)decided to have a REVOLUTION and on theOCTOBER the 5th we WON, DEMOCRACY WON(not american democracy but real free people democracy), PEOPLE OF SERBIA WON.

3.Only the dead have seen the end of war.
-Plato

4. Serbia or ex-Yugoslavia wasn't a pro-communist county.

Vojvodina and Kosovo-Metohija form a part of the Republic of Serbia.
The country distanced itself from the Soviets in 1948 (cf. Cominform and Informbiro) and started to build its own way to socialism under strong political leadership of Josip Broz Tito.

The country criticized both Eastern bloc and NATO nations and, together with other countries, started the Non-Aligned Movement in 1961, which remained the official affiliation of the country until it dissolved.

5.So i'm not or ever will be a left or right wing.
I am and will be a free minded man in my free country.

6.U.S lies to it's people all the time...and wa all now that is the thruth

&. I don't hate american people(i even like your soccer team(Landon donovan, mcBride))

7. We had a civil war against Croats in 91-95 but we are working are butts off to give a peace a chance...Last night i was in the club with 10 Croats and we talked like friends and have a good time. So we are really trying to help "peace in Balkans"

8. What do you have to do with North Korea? Let North Koreans (i mean people of korea) solve there problems alone without your "HUMAN MISSIONS aka BOMBING THE SHH..OUT IF EVERYTHING"

9.CNN and other TV stations are Fasciists because they are telling you what to think in very elegant and cheezy way.
Exemple:

When they are speaking about KOSOVO they are saying that Kosovo albanians want independent kosovo.

BUT THAN THEY SAY:
BUT THERE SERBIAN "MASTERS"(aka bad guys) are thinkig that independent kosovo isn't posible...because it is still the part of Serbia and it must stay part of Serbia.


10.And final thing is: If serbian solders are sent to Jail in HAG(holland)
because they done something against non-serb civilians in kosovo(which is a part of serbia)
why then shouldn't be made a JAIL for SOME AMERICAN SOLDERS/GENERALS for doing same thing in Afghanistan, Iraq, VIETNAM, and many other countries.

p.s This is long post but if you could be so kind to answer these few Q it would make my day!

'Bowling For Columbine' watch Part with Merlin Menson, and cartoon with a BULLET that is telling us about american history...
and when shooting started in Columbine, NEXT DAY all TV stations were showing that and that same day was the hevy-est(?) bombing of serbia...
So they used a death of innocent childern to bomb us some more and harder than ever!

One more thing...In history of U.S. airforce there is only one county that HIT that famous black STEALTH F117-a...SERBIA. We crushed a proud of american airforce with a 40-year old MOBILE RUSSIAN RADAR!

"jedi govna glupi amerikancu "

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at least i'm not an AMERICAN IDIOT and my Ancient fathers didn't kill a
million(yes 1 000 000) indians and torture a "few" million Blacks for a hundreds of years just for fun.

P.S Watch a Video for a song called "Do the Evolution" (pearl jam)

Read about Band called RAGE AGAINST MACHINE...and there songs...like

Testify, People of he Sun, Sleep now in the fire, Take the power back, Bulls on parade...


Do the evolution:

I'm ahead, I'm a man
I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah
I'm at peace with my lust
I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah
It's evolution, baby

I'm at peace, I'm the man
Buying stocks on the day of the crash
On the loose, I'm a truck
All the rolling hills, I'll flatten 'em out, yeah
It's herd behavior, uh huh
It's evolution, baby

Admire me, admire my home
Admire my son, he's my clone
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
This land is mine, this land is free
I'll do what I want but irresponsibly
It's evolution, baby

I'm a thief, I'm a liar
There's my church, I sing in the choir:
(hallelujah, hallelujah)

Admire me, admire my home
Admire my son, admire my clones
'Cause we know, appetite for a nightly feast
Those ignorant Indians got nothin' on me
Nothin', why?
Because... it's evolution, baby!

I am ahead, I am advanced
I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher
2010, watch it go to fire
It's evolution, baby
It's evolution, baby
Let's do the evolution
Come on, come on, come on


www.slaughterhousecalledusa.com

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HAHAHAHAHA UTOPIA? THAT'S GOOD ONE...

I'm coming from a land that was FIVE HUNDRED YEARS under TURKISH ocupattion(and we are not muslims but ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS)

I'm coming from a land that had in last hundred years SEVEN(7) WARS ON IT'S TERRITORY...(in last 20years 3 wars)

I'm coming from a land that had been bombed by U.S and U.K for 80days...
Mission called "MERCIFUL ANGEL"?

AND STILL I DON'T HATE US or UK but i hate stupid idiots like you that just don't want to listen to thruth...or at least think a little bit...

If i'm an idiot than why can't you find my country on the map, why are you so affraid of people that are diffrent(and i dont mean extremist but ordinary muslims), why are you too affraid too tell me from which country you are coming from...

...because you are affraid and living in your little shell called HAPPY-WHITE-PEOPLE-TOWN, USA and listening to PARIS HILTON OR BRITNEY!

and where do you get your INFO from *beep* CNN, BBC, ABC(try SOUTHPARK for a change there are some realy good stuff about you americans)

I'm not getting mi info from music but from REAL LIFE that i'm living in my country and not like you living in some MTV reality show and eating McPLASTIC or PLASTIC KING.

and if you care about musslims than why didn't stop them(albanians)
from Burning, killing and raping in kosovo other CHRISTIANS?
It's ok to kill serbs on there territory but when we fight back it's aggression,
BUT when USA and UK bomb the SHH.... OUT of IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN it's ok because it's your right to defend.

And you can't tell me that your goverment(and 50% of people) didn't torture some indians or blacks?
We all KNOW what you did to them...so don't pretend like you don't know!

Or maybe they tortured and killed them selves!

Do you have at least some proofs that you didn't do any of these things!

Do you have at least some proofs that you didn't do any of these things!

Do you have at least some proofs that you didn't do any of these things!

www.SLAUGHTERHOUSEcalledAMERICA.com

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Hey galilleo,
Alfredo Garcia was looking for you and he asked if you could bring him his head back!

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