MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Hidden Frontier (2000) Discussion > Has Hidden Frontier 'changed your life'?...

Has Hidden Frontier 'changed your life'? How?


Occasionally, we will get a moving letter from a fan about how Hidden Frontier has touched upon a subject such as depression or drug addiction that they also suffer from, or how HF's handling of gays gave them the courage to 'come out' to the people they love. My favorite letter was from someone who was homophobic and had a friend come out to them. They then shunned the friend . . . until they watched Hidden Frontier and came to understand that gays aren't any different from heteros, not in any of the things that truly matter in life.

As a result of these letters, or occasional discussions in the chat room, I thought I'd start a thread on the HF board, http://forums.hiddenfrontier.com/index.php/topic,6888.0.html and when it proved successful, I thought I'd open a parallel thread here.

HAS Hidden Frontier somehow changed your life? How? Was it a positive change?

Here's the place to talk about it, if you wish.

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I wasn't aware that you'd been granted the authority to go around judging other people's lives for their validity and value.

Of course, considering that you now have a show you can hate and endlessly harass, we can safely say that Hidden Frontier has certainly changed your life. What did you do before?

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"Naw, It looks like that 'judgement' is reserved for you on others here."

So, you're NOT being judgemental when you claim that if Hidden Frontier changed a person's life, they must not have had much of a life? Sounds pretty judgemental to me, but I'm not as smart as you are, as you repeatedly tell me.

""Hate"? Still putting words in people's mouths when the truth doesn't fit your agenda. 'The home movie show' is just a fun diversion, sorta like mindless cartoons for adults. Got a sense of humor?"

Well, why else would you constantly attack us and even devote a blog to nothing but what you claim are our shortcomings if you didn't hate us? Isn't that kinda obsessive for "just a fun diversion"?

"Unlike you, I have enough propriety to not tell the Internet my whole life. Here is omething you might have heard from time to time, none of your business."

My propriety isn't at issue here to anyone except you. Not that you're "judging" me, of course, because you've already said you aren't being judgemental.

It's too bad that Hidden Frontier changed your life for the worse and not for the better.

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"Sorta like "Our Lady of Altadena, Hidden Frontier's blessed piracy Trek agenda"?

No "ad hominem" attacks; argueing a person's character instead of addressing their points."

First he makes a personal attack, then in the very next line, he demands that people not make personal attacks.

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Hidden Frontier is an organization, not a home video, and you are attacking its integrity and character 'instead of addressing their points.'

As for getting a grip, you're the person with the vendetta against "a home video".

If we're REALLY as unimportant as you say, then why does it matter to you? The fact is, we're very important to you for some reason, and you want to make us just as important to others, in exactly the same way as we are to you. That's the purpose of all these attacks: to gather allies and to somehow vindicate your beliefs about us. Which, you'll note for yourself, has been a dismal failure so far.

So, Hidden Frontier has clearly changed your life and given it some twisted new meaning. Otherwise, why would you have wasted the last SEVEN YEARS of that life libeling, hounding, and harassing us? We're VERY important to you, despite everything you say. But why? How did we change your life, Tony?

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Why does it mean so much to me that you've been harassing me and libeling me for seven years? Well, I guess the key to answering that question is in the words "harassing" and "libeling".

Now, back to the question you didn't answer: why would you have wasted the last SEVEN YEARS of that life libeling, hounding, and harassing us?

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So, are you going to explain why you've wasted seven years of your life libeling, hounding, and harassing Hidden Frontier and me?

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"Why always so defensive?"

You actually ask that as a serious question? You constantly attack and harass me and then still can't figure out why I defend myself? "Hey Officer, why did you shoot me?" "Well, it may have had something to do with you shooting at me first."

What about you? Why must you always attack?

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Your post is filled with ad hominem attacks. I thought you condemned those?

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Just following in the steps of the UberTroll himself!

'Nuff said: http://www.redshirtfilmette.com

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Just as much as you do, you wonderful troll... the only embarrassment here is you...

'Nuff said: http://www.redshirtfilmette.com

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And yet all the dishonesty, lies and ad hominem attacks are coming from you, Cuddles.... why don't YOU stop whining, since you can;t ever seem to win an argument... :)

'Nuff said: http://www.redshirtfilmette.com

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An impartial judge might disagree with you.

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I'm not sure what you're saying.

Are you implying that a person who could judge your comments impartially is as rare as a unicorn?

Are you implying that a genuinely impartial judge's opinion means as little to you as a mouse's opinion?

At any rate, you have an interesting habit of announcing victory when there is little or no evidence to support your contention.

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Still posting in my forums and accusing me of stalking you when I answer, I see.

Since you are unwilling or unable to speak plainly, guesses are all that are left to us. You really ought to stop blaming others for your actions, you know.

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Let see now, he comes to the Hidden Frontier threads to make nasty comments, but I'm following him. That's like saying that if he broke into my home, I followed him there.

I never said I was impartial. I merely said that an impartial judge might find it hard to believe that you are winning. As one of the people unjustly under attack, I am hardly expected to be impartial.

You find it hard to believe that I'm still here on the thread I started. Does that actually make sense to you?

True, he's never going to have sex with me: I have much better taste than that. For the same reason, I'm never going to have sex with you, either. But why would anyone who was actually sane believe I wanted to have sex with any man, let alone that man?

Now, I know that you have admitted in the past that you like to make unfounded accusations in the hope of finding something that is actually true to use against someone, but isn't this one a little outre' even by your standards? Or is it that you're actually aware that you're libeling me, but you're hoping to find a third party stupid enough to believe it?

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So, now that you've come back to troll here again, do you actually have something to say? Otherwise, I'm going to have to request the admins delete your posts yet again. The idea is that you're supposed to actually comment on the thread subject, you know.

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You forget that this thread is about how Hidden Frontier has changed the lives of the people it has touched. It is NOT your personal soap box to be used for whatever topic you feel like addressing, and if you will not stay on topic, I or anyone else in the thread is perfectly within their rights to ask the admins to remove your posts.

Also, when you get not merely offensive but libelous, which is a violation of the terms of service, people are within their rights to ask that your violating posts be removed.

As for your comment about removing your "facts" because they disagree with my world view . . . I have yet to see you actually present any facts for anyone's perusal.

I have seen you post speculations as if they were facts, I have seen you edit other people's posts and re-post them here as if they were facts, I have seen you post references to items that don't even address our arguments as if they settled matters, I have even seen you blatantly accusing others of your own unacceptable actions in an odd sort of projection of loathing of those actions, but I don't believe I have ever seen you post an actual fact here.

But if you can actually come up with a fact that happens to be on THIS particular topic, how Hidden Frontier's existence has changed your life, do feel free to post it here. And keep your speculations as to how Hidden Frontier has changed the lives of anyone who is NOT Anthony Genovese to yourself. The topic is NOT "How do you think Hidden Frontier has changed the lives of other people."

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Why, nothing. What is there to be afraid of? I'm not even afraid of the lies told about me, so long as I'm around to provide the other half of the story.

But you're still off-topic, Tony. Either cough up a story about how Hidden Frontier has changed your life, or shut up.

You can always start another thread that allows you to speculate endlessly, where your comments would be on-topic. Here, in this thread, they are not.

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Except that you've never been able to convince anyone to come over to your side - your reputation (or lack thereof) is always your undoing, rendering your "factual" statements as nothing more than crazed rants...

Your duplicity, poor grasp of facts, plagiarism, and lack of morals has been GREAT for demonstrating classic troll behavior to many others on the Net. So thanks, Cuddles - you're a great example NOT to follow.

'Nuff said: http://www.redshirtfilmette.com

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I was waiting to see if he could actually make an on-topic post. I waited several days, because I know if it was possible at all, it wouldn't be easy.

Finally, I was notified he'd made a post, and went eagerly to see what an on-topic post from Tony actually looked like.

Unfortunately, in the relatively short time between when I received the notification and when I came here to look, I found nothing but smoking craters where his posts used to be. I can only assume that either someone else reported them, or else they were so virulent that the Admins nuked them without waiting to be asked.

How has Hidden Frontier changed MY life? Well, it gave me not one but two hobbies on which I could spend my time without overtaxing my limited resources physically or emotionally. I have become a decent actor, good enough for community theatre at least, and I've become a pretty good makeup artist as well, both self-taught.

It has given me a chance to learn just how weird it feels to have actual fans, people who think that just because I've stood on the wrong side of the camera, I'm somehow special (I'm not.). It has also given me my first unavoidable experience interacting with the mentally ill. (I don't count my previous encounters with the people shouting to themselves on Hollywood Blvd because I did my best to NOT interact with them.)

It has given me the chance to meet some wonderful people, some of them fans, some of them our fellow filmmakers. It has given me a chance to experience a fictional world where gays are treated like human beings, with actual rights. (As usual, the real world lags behind science fiction, but also as usual, it seems to be catching up. Humanity as a whole will probably always have stupid prejudices and unthinking hatreds, but it CAN be taught.)

It has given me, in a small way, a chance to participate in the ongoing civil rights movement. That, unfortunately, has caused me to be cynical about my fellow man, as I never before realized that there are people out there who genuinely cannot be moved by mere facts. I have found that there are people who not only bury their heads in the sands in fear of the truth, they angrily insist that everyone else do the same thing. But the contrasting thing I've learned is that such people are in the minority, and that most people are at least capable of entertaining an idea that they disagree with long enough to think about it.

It has given me a chance to try my hand at everything on a production, from acting to tape operator, boom operator to producer, background performer to makeup artist, and to be allowed to pitch in anywhere an extra hand was genuinely needed without worrying whether it was permitted by my job classification.

And perhaps most important of all, it's been fun. And no one can take that from me.

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No, I find it extremely distasteful, Mr. Conservative. So I'm rather glad that someone else reported you this time. Unless, of course, the Admins acted without prompting, which wouldn't surprise me at all.

But I am quite certain that the deleted entry that I didn't get a chance to read was up to your usual standards. Which means it was probably off-topic (just like this sub-thread you've started), libelous, and/or a violation of the terms of service.

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Heh, I'm Conservative and have reported you on more than one occasion.

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The quiet has been most pleasant the last few days, hasn't it? When he's required to actually stick to the point, he just has nothing to say.

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No, he doesn't unless you count trying to dodge (poorly, I might add)the questions by weakly flaming Frontier Guard.

It's sad, really.

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Well, if that is the way that Hidden Frontier has changed his life, then he's certainly entitled to state so. I'm just glad that we were able to improve his life, and with so little effort on our parts.

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"I call upon you to draw from the depths of your being — to prove that we are a human race, to prove that our love outweighs our need to hate, that our compassion is more compelling than our need to blame." Elizabeth Taylor, 1932-2011, upon receiving the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award special Oscar in 1993.

We live in a world where people are still hated solely for the crime of being different. They are black, white, yellow, or brown. They are gay, or hetero. They are non-Christian, or non-Islamic, or non-Jewish, or some other flavor of non-. They are too conservative or too liberal. They make too much money, or too little. The list of differences that people will pick on is nearly infinite, and always completely justifiable----at least to those who hate.

In 1966, Gene Roddenberry tried to show a world where humanity had put a lot of its irrational hatreds behind it, and was still struggling to continue the job, because it is a struggle that never truly ends. He did it through a show called "Star Trek".

Through much of Elizabeth Taylor's life, she did much the same, not with fiction, but with genuine compassion, charity, and good acts. In 1987, France awarded her the Legion of Honor for her efforts in supporting AIDS research. In 2000, Queen Elizabeth II made Ms. Taylor a Dame.

If Hidden Frontier has any sort of legacy at all, it is that we tried, however poorly, to follow in their footsteps. They changed millions of lives for the better. With a bit of luck, we at least changed a couple.

When Roddenberry died, the world lost a humanitarian. Today, with Ms. Taylor's death, we have lost another humanitarian at a time when we need all we can get.

Requiescat in pace, Elizabeth Taylor.

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Re-read this, Tony.

You missed it the first time.

"I call upon you to draw from the depths of your being — to prove that we are a human race, to prove that our love outweighs our need to hate, that our compassion is more compelling than our need to blame." Elizabeth Taylor, 1932-2011, upon receiving the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award special Oscar in 1993.

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[deleted]

I mostly stopped giving him a hard time about his lousy spelling and grammar when I realized he's probably dyslexic. Although every now and then, he writes something that just needs translation into English because even I can't make sense of it. And I've had a lot of experience translating Genovese into English.

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I just stumbled in here by accident and saw some tub of lard 14 year old in a star trek uniform, much lulz were had in my household i can tell you- but seriously, once we wiped away the tears, we had to ask- why can't you be a star trek fan and be THIN? Do your videos, that's all good, have some fun, technology ftw, etc, but goddamnit starfleet officers shouldn't be that *beep* fat unless they are Kirk, Scotty or Riker.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2230489600/tt0467491

Fat *beep* on far left- NO.

This is what Starfleet officers look like-

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061228060460/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/JadziaDax2374.jpg/292px-JadziaDax2374.jpg

Thin, vibrant, active, full of life.

Or this-

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQU3J8vBruYc4uuB0fQSYaqoKQLRogpnVN_csKznh_rVuhJKIA&t=1&usg=__kIOZAgAXDq9225YNToCJIcUSByw=

NOT, fat, 14, and pimpled. I understand you're a fan, but if you are such a fan, surely you can look in the mirror and think I DONT BELONG IN THIS UNIFORM.

Seriously lol, you guys are embarrassing.

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Most Americans are overweight these days. Fans are no exception to that.

If we'd had a budget, we could have hired only the beautiful people that you prefer. As it is, all of our actors worked for free because they enjoy what they do. That means the majority of our actors were . . . . fans.

But if you can't stand the sight of "fat people" doing what they enjoy, save your bandwidth and don't download our episodes. We had fun making them. I'm sorry that you didn't have fun watching them.

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Is Tony STILL harassing Hidden Frontier, even with me dumping him to the Ignore list?

Sarah Palin recently gave an interesting version of American history. She claimed that Paul Revere was NOT warning the colonists the British were coming, he was warning the British "that Americans are keeping their guns are willing to fight." When asked by a fellow news commentator if she was embarrassed by her mistake, she insisted that she hadn't made one. She did this in a long, rambling sentence that made no sense and didn't really even address the argument. She also blamed her unpreparedness because the question she was asked was a "gotcha question" (Much like the famous "which magazines do you read"? "All of them.")

The "gotcha question" that flustered her so badly was "What historic sites have you and your family visited today, and what did you learn there?"

From watching the footage of Sarah Palin, I can see only three real differences between her and Tony: 1) She's female. 2) People know who she is. 3) Her answers were not filled with hostility and insults.

Instead of talking to or about Tony, we should be talking to this guy: http://www.break.com/index/worlds-greatest-extra-2024950?utm_source=sc ribol&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=scribol

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"Everyone you listed knows about Hidden Frontier! How do they know? Because you called them. You emailed them."

Don't forget that we were also on the front page of the Los Angeles Times. If Tony couldn't get their attention, THAT would have. If they'd wanted our heads, they'd have taken them.

It doesn't help that when Tony stomped off the set, I ended up getting his guest-starring part.

Has he been harassing us for nearly fifteen years now? Time certainly flies when someone is trying to make certain you're not having fun.

Tony's still trying to pretend he's protecting Paramount from fan films? That's a little bit like trying to protect God from a beating by a hummingbird: it's sheer arrogance to assume any help is needed in the first place.

And then there's the Stewart vs. Abend court decision, which ruled that the current copyright holder of a work has the sole right to "permit the creation and exploitation of derivative works". So, even if Tony had formerly held any copyrights to Star Trek, which he did not, the current copyright owners are the only people who have the right to decide what to decide about fan films. Tony has absolutely zero rights in the matter. In fact, if Paramount/CBS chose to, they could demand that Tony stop claiming that he's working on their behalf as a misrepresentation of his relationship with Paramount. If you don't count the paychecks he allegedly received for completely unrelated work as a carpenter, he doesn't HAVE a relationship with Paramount.

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And another similarity: her followers tried to edit the Wikipedia page on Paul Revere so it would reflect her version of "history". They had to lock down the page after restoring it to the original condition. Tony used to do that all the time to the Hidden Frontier entry on Wikipedia, before they locked him out.

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We are largely in agreement. He claims that I don't know him, and that was certainly true when I first met him. However, I have a decade and more of observing his words and his deeds, and I now know him very well.

Pretty much every "reason" he's used for attacking Hidden Frontier has been a smokescreen for his real reason(s); copyright defense is merely his most popular. That's why whenever I ask him what has motivated him for the last decade and more, the answer is dead silence. Even he understands that if he honestly gave his real reasons, it would make him look bad. (He seems to be weak on the concept that his present actions also make him look bad; maybe he figures his actions don't make him look as bad as being honest about his motivations would.)

I used to grant him the benefit of the doubt about his carpentry claims and his stand-in work, but I came to realize that I only have his word for it. And you've seen exactly how much his word has come to be worth.

Still, this is all a waste of our time. Talking to him does no good: as he himself admits, his reality and ours does not coincide well. And talking about him does no good: he cannot change. In fact, talking about him does active harm, because it creates for him a kind of fame, something he cannot achieve for himself. He craves fame the way the rest of us crave air, so as far as he is concerned, our talking about him is a REWARD for his heinous behavior. It's like hugging a puppy that just peed on the carpet instead of rapping them on the nose with a newspaper. Except that a puppy can be made to understand that what he did is wrong, of course.

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Think of a child, trying to get its parent's attention while the parent is talking to the other adults. The longer the child has to wait, the louder it gets. Finally, the parent screams at it. Not the attention the child wanted, but it's attention. So, the next time, the child uses the exact tactics, because it got SOME attention. The child learned nothing about how to behave OR how not to behave, but it did learn how to get attention.

Now, the difference is that, if the parent changes tactics, the child can still be taught how to behave well. Tony's got more than fifty years of experience in getting attention by behaving badly; it's too late for him to learn how to behave well.

Has Tony libeled us? Yes. And as soon as I can afford a lawyer, I'll sue him, and probably win. Not that he has any money, but I can at least require him to stop his libels and maybe retract them, too.

Has Tony committed felonies in his harassment? Probably. Some of it seems to be in a gray area. If I could find something that was clearly a felony, I'd press charges again, and the D.A. would make them stick. It's not like there's exactly a lack of documentation of his activities, is there? Hell, half the time, Tony boasts about his activities, because he genuinely believes he has the right to do them.

Neither of us needs to point out what kind of man he is; he has already done that. Repeatedly. We can't make him look any worse than he already has, and frankly, I don't want to. If I tried to make him look worse than he actually is, I'd be just like him. And while he doesn't believe he's made himself look bad, the reality is otherwise. I can't make him look any worse without lying about him, as he has about me.

As Tony himself has pointed out more than once, actions speak louder than words. Perhaps my actions speak for me. His have certainly spoken for him.

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Oh, Oscar-Genovese. Let's start here..... It's "desperate", "notoriety", "piracy" and "work". Mature people don't let their tempers get ahead of them and post THREE sentences with four misspellings and both an incomplete sentence and a run-on sentence in the same paragraph!

YOU, Oscar/Genovese, have a ST fan video. It's the same damn thing. Yes it is. It's no different than any of the fan videos except it's 11 minutes of cascading ugliness including the worst sound, direction and script anyone ever saw. It drags on and on taking a simple joke, a "noodge" at ST, and just RAMS it into the ground and GRINDS it with a broken heel. It' is so OVER done it becomes nearly nauseating. So you have committed the same fouls only it's MORE FOUL. OMG, is it more foul. It's a condescending piece of crap with color bleed.

YOU have been in the "biz" for decades and haven't even shown your face on the screen in the last 12-15 YEARS. Non-talent would describe you in spades. Plus, Oscar-Genovese, there is no one, no one on Mother Earth, who has displayed themselves worse than you have displayed yourself on the internet. Absolutely not one person.

You are constantly enraged because you want to be involved in this show! And until you stop acting like a jerk, it is not going to happen.

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"Impersonal topic"? You seem to be taking it quite personally.

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Thanks, Hiddovar...But be careful these Trekkie fan video makers are crazy.

The Hidden Frontier cast & crew judge everyone based on whether or not they enjoyed this amateur video effort. Yet, we can't judge them or their video if we see and say some criticism of this fan work? Because they're smarter than us but are small-time amateur video makers. If you have a criticsm, they hate you. You can disagree with your posts, but they demonstrate such personal hatred and animosity towards the poster. But, we know nothing about the cast & crew and what they did to make this hobby Internet show. And, they're arbitrarily harsh to forum posts based on what they feel? BUt according to them, we're the worst people in the world. Be real. They're trying to project themselves as more important than they really are.
It's pretty clear to me that they're projecting their hatred on the people who see their mistakes, goofs, and foibles because they thought that was what they were supposed to be, arrogant egotists themselves.

For more background content of this topic, READ this:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hidden_frontier_/message/34

Three reasons for Internet bullying of others with public forum attacks: fear, ignorance and envy.

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I find it personally difficult to believe that an Internet troll would actually recognize that what they were doing was wrong. Still, read her story and decide if, like her, you think this person was genuinely repentant.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/02/what-happened-confronted-cruellest-troll-lindy-west

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