The Subjunctive

I think you misunderstand the meaning of "grammar school" (unless you were making a pun). In Britain, when students move on past their primary school they have an opportunity to apply for a grammar school, which is considered more prestigious, or a regular local secondary school. While it would be at least somewhat reasonable to expect grammar school students to use the language more accurately, you have to also understand that everyone makes mistakes with English. It's a pretty tough language to speak correctly, even for native speakers.

Also, I wonder if you've ever been to Britain. I'm also American, but what I've found while over there is that the average Brit on the street probably speaks a variety of English that is slightly less grammatically correct than what you would find here. Like anywhere, there are the educated people who are careful about how they speak and there are countless strata below that.

As for the subjunctive, I have found that it is one of those things that once you understand it you find it is misused constantly. Personally, I almost wish I didn't know about it, since I now find myself consistently irked by its misuse.

Hopefully that answers your question.

P.S. - If any Brits come on here and find mistakes in what I've said, I would welcome the corrections. I do know that the Scottish and Northern Irish systems are somewhat different than the English (and the Welsh, which I understand is quite similar to the English, actually). So, if you are to draw any conclusion about my assertions above it would be that they are specifically for the English school system, if there is any question. Thanks!

A couple of points more: The word "grammar" used for these schools refers to Latin Grammar and comes from their very earliest times. In Baltimore, MD, there is a school called "Boys Latin," the "grammar" being understood. I don't know if they even teach Latin there anymore, but the name is from another century (LOL). As far as the subjunctive in English, it has, for all practical purposes, disappeared other than in conditional sentences. While folks are familiar with "If I were you" (etc.) and use it, many might think that this is THE only subjunctive. But the subjunctive is regularly used by many speakers in conditional sentences, such as "If John loved Mary, he would marry her." The subjunctive in modern English in this usage has the what looks generally like the same form as the simple past, except it's clear from "If I were you," that it's not really the simple past. Other than the verb "be", it's transparent. Another more unsual form of the subjunctive is similar to usage in romance languages: "Oh that John (might) study more diligently!/Would that John study more diligently!" In these case, and only in the 3rd person singular of most verbs, is there a clear difference from the indicative (mood). To many ears, "Oh that John studies more" (using the indicative 3rd person singlular) makes no sense at all. The subjunctive referred to in the movie scene was mostly during the French speaking segment, but honestly, I'll have to watch it again to see if they actually ever used the subjunctive (which is extremely common in all the romance languages) in that segment. And finally, the whole subjunctive thing gets very muddy when the helping verbs might and may are used because the actual verb sits in a syntactical spot that is normally occupied by an "infinitive" in English (I would go, I don't go, I might go, etc.) and may and might are often called "subjunctive," whether rightly or wrongly.

Yes, you're being a nerd, & totally missing the boat. The subjunctive references were thematic. Try putting it together with Hector's comments on the Hardy poem & see if you can figure it out.

People, even teachers, don't always use perfect grammar in everyday speech. Is that a revelation to you? Bennett would've written their lines as the characters would've spoken them--like real people, with occasionally imperfect grammar.

And asking why there would've been improper use of the subjunctive in a "grammar" school is beyond asinine.

I thought it wass funny anyways how French and English everyday-subjunctives would be quite different, from what I heard:

An usual example of French subjunctive would be: ''Il faut que j'aille à l'épicerie.'' ('que j'aille' would be the subjunctive part) which, translated, would be: ''I have to go to the grocery store.''. I spea French at home and at school, and I don't think I've ever used French subjunctive in any other case.

And if you take the opposite, English subjunctive translated in French, you'd get: ''If I were ('was') a writer, I'd write.'' would translate to: ''Si j'étais un écrivain, j'écrirais.''....which to us is conditional!

But I did some quick research and those are just everyday examples, because if you look into more 'formal' uses of subjunctive (in both languages) you get similar verbs.

I learned something new today. :)

_______
'' i think so, brain, but I can't memorise a whole opera in yiddish. ''

I did notice this (I'm also an American, an English major, and an editor), so I'm glad I'm not the only one who was bemused by it, Jesserafe. Or perhaps it was done on purpose? ;)

I noticed it immediately, and I agree it's an unforgivable goof, considering the context. As a card-carrying member of the Subjunctive Preservation Society, I hate it when people fail to use it. If I was king, I'd chop their heads off. (See what I did there?)

Speak for yourself, OP. No, "we Americans do not tend to think that the British use better grammar," not generally. It's been my experience that there are just as many British people who utilize terrible grammar in one form or another as there are Americans. Improper usage and incorrect grammar have no boundaries, especially where the English language is concerned. Plus, unlike the British, we Americans tend to use more adjectives other than "frightful," "dreadful," and "ghastly." However, you are correct about Americans not being "too fussy about the subjunctive." We leave that to those poor, anal souls who never developed any interests outside of an English classroom. What they need can't be found in a word.

The most important thing about language is the ability to express oneself and be understood regardless of subjunctives and all the rest. If one is able to convey his intended message, the rest is so much noise and clutter. And remember, never underestimate the value and importance of editors and proofreaders. They're the unsung heroes of each and every wordsmith, the ones who make every writer sound talented and literate even when they're not.

And limited adjective usage aside, as far as I'm concerned the best 'things' to ever come out of England are: Princess Diana, Hayley Mills (delightful person!), the unequaled Vivien Leigh (never miss the chance to see "Waterloo Bridge"), Arthur Sharp (my first serious love and the dark-haired singer of the 60s group, "The Nashville Teens"), the supremely talented and hirsute Alan Bates, and as if I even need to mention it, its great mass of uncircumcised men. (One must always include England's great mass of uncircumcised men on any "Best of Britain" list; otherwise, what's the point?) I forgot to mention Colin Firth! He's been my favorite British actor for years and I wish I were a young woman so I could seduce him and bear his love child! : D (I normally dislike "smiley faces," but that last sentence cried out for one.)

Now go forth and study, Jesse. You've almost mastered subjunctives, but your French needs some work (as done mine).