Is gun control a sign of the police state? - Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State Discussion

[–] don-492 19 years ago

Should we allow all citizens to be armed, so the entire world could enjoy the breathtaking murder rate of America?

Hmm... seems like you haven't actually done any real research on this issue. Taking guns away actually creates more crime. This has been proven time and time again, look around. Would you attack someone knowing they had a gun? I'd would say no. Search around :)

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Kristianhicks 19 years ago

I think you'll find that states with harder gun laws have more gun crime than states with relaxed gun laws. Before 1920 in Britain you could buy almost any gun you wanted yet where was the gun crime rate? Practically non-existant.

A criminal will allways get his guns through the black market, by restricting guns officially you are only keeping guns out of the hands of decent, lawful people.

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[–] runarvollan 19 years ago

The starter of this thread HAS seen Bowling for Columbine, hasn't he? Well, if that's the case, he has probably seen Fahrenheit 9/11 as well. A film that tells almost nothing of relevances or is giving any reasons behind anything significant or hardcore, but is shot and edited nicely. I understand why Tarantino now says he "somehow" regrets giving Moore the palme d'Or. While I don't think that the connection "relaxed" gun laws and violence is coincidental, I don't think that having a gun makes people violent. Society spawns psychopaths, and with a gun in their hand it certainly is easier to shoot and kill! What's the basic problem then - guns or society? Well this is inherited too; the link between the two "problems", what's called a violent society. Evil breeds on evil. And Bush is one little Damien.

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[–] marcus-213 17 years ago

On the subject of guns, and the right to carry them;
Most western countries don't have the liberal weapon laws of the US, and really, that's not a bad thing. Personally, I've never owned, held, or seen a gun in my life. Why? Because people don't need them or carry them where I live. Sure, there are criminals, and sure, they will get hold of guns if they really need them. They might use them too for threats, but people rarely get killed or hurt - because the civil population is generally unarmed.
People do get robbed or have guns pointed at them, but rarely with violent outcome. If thing's were different, chances are that the trigger happy armed civil people would spawn trigger happy armed criminals. Who ever shoots first wins. With few guns in circulation and few armed civilians in society, you're bound to reduce the number of violent crimes and murder rate.

Many claim that "it's not the weapons fault, it's the humans carrying them". Right. I suppose cocaine, land mines, tanks and plutonium should be included in the constitution too. There's nothing positive you can use a gun for, just as little as you can use a land mine to do good.
If 99% are potentially responsible owners or not, it doesn't make weapons add anything to society no more than drugs or the examples above. And for those who are not-so-responsible, a gun or no gun in their hand might make all the difference in the result of their actions during whatever crisises they face (and how many is affected).

I can't think of a reason to carry a gun. Can anyone?
Saying it's for defense is just as smart as saying offense. That's what the Cold War was all about - defense.

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[–] Samus Aran 16 years ago

Well written and interesting.

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[–] Akula765 19 years ago

Actually they are. You're far more likely to be murdered in London than in Detroit. It just wont be with a handgun

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[–] slipknot808411 17 years ago

It may be shock to you, but maybe its the fact that we have 300 million people, so our murder rate(if you just look at numbers) is going to be exponetially higher than yours.

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[–] Samus Aran 16 years ago

Sorry, but murder rates and other statistics are based on "per one thousand people", not "per the entire population of the country". That is just silly.

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[–] Helbig 18 years ago

It seems that people are doubting the high murder rates in America. Perhaps some nice statistics will help convince you?

The "International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2000" show the following countries as having the highest murder rates worldwide (descending order):

South Africa
Russia
Lithuania
Estonia
Latvia
U.S.A

However some countries didn't provide the information that year, so Colombia, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina were left out. But I guess no one is expecting low murder rates in those countries…

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[–] Kingsthings1 16 years ago

Can anyone honestly say if the government hadn't taken away it's peoples guns in the last 100 years it would of been able to kill 200 million people, yes 200 million people? I'm from the UK Gun crime and violent crime has went up since the 90s when all handguns were banned. Coincidence?

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[–] namagone 19 years ago

Guy I think you've got your tinfoil hat tied on to tight again ;)

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[–] bajparry 18 years ago

Credit to Michael Moore in Bowling for Columbine, tho. Even tho some of what he said, and how he said it, I found objectionable, at least he didn't try to claim that guns in and of themselves are bad. His slant was that mostly it is the culture of guns and fear in America which is the problem.

"Find out what to think next!"
-Chris Morris, "Brasseye"

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[–] Miklos_ 18 years ago

Fact is guns are bad and some US rednecks have totally twisted the meaning of 'all men have the right to bare arms'.

It was originally ment to be an insurance policy to have an armed militia if the English decided to come back.

Also 'to bare arms' can be understood as all men have the right to be in the military (to bare arms can be translated to bare arms for the country).

Only in US did it translate to soccermoms with AK47s.

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[–] WoeAndEnvy 18 years ago

Miklos,
Read the constitution.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Are you actually trying to argue that "the people" means the military?

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[–] dylan-112 18 years ago

Was the statement "We The People" not your first clue as to exactly what the constitutional right to bear arms was relating to? Are you actually claiming that the US Constitution, written at a time when the British army had just been thrown out of the country and the newly created government were figuring out "The People" should protect themselves best by having...Drum roll please...

A STATE CONTROLLED ARMY?!??!

Are you mental?

Do you get out much?

Did you know that the last two things Hitler did prior to killing 8 million Jews was give everyone an ID Card and take away the guns?

Do you know anything?

If you would like to learn a thing or two about the actual real world that most of us live in, you might try www.starttherevolution.org

Don't be too hard on yourself though...I read it a lot and, to be honest, I am still learning stuff too!

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[–] Helbig 18 years ago

It’s nice that you’re admitting that you still need to learn (a lot of) stuff, since you don’t seem to know anything.

Do you find the idea of ‘a state controlled army’ frightening? Most armies take orders from their government (the representatives of the people and the executive power in a democracy). That’s fine by me.

Apparently you’re getting different topics mixed up: Issuing ID cards and taking away guns doesn’t bring about genocide. Several (especially European) countries have issued ID cards and have strict gun laws, while having only a sixth of the homicides in USA.

And honestly, there were 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust, not 8 million! Try reading some books about the subject – it's called 'the real world'.

Some advice for you Dylan: Have some fresh air (your brain needs it). Go to the library and get your facts straight. Finally, you should be a lot harder on yourself and stop submitting nonsense.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] loleralacartelort7890 18 years ago

naaaah, guns arent a sign of a police state
all this talk about usa is a police state is flawed and full of lies
the drector of the documentary is anti-american, nothing else

watch michael moore´s documentarys to get the truth
dont watch this flawed and dump documentary

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[–] G-Com 18 years ago

naaaah, guns arent a sign of a police state "

Guns are a tool. It's the people who are turning it into a police state that are a sign of a police state.

all this talk about usa is a police state is flawed and full of lies

Ask those people who were imprisoned in the asbestos-laden Pier 57 temporary prison. I personally witnessed the roundups, and was threatened with arrest twice for taking pictures of the "wrong things," so don't tell me the police state references are flawed, because it was very, very real to me.

the drector of the documentary is anti-american, nothing else

Ask yourself this: "Am I being told the truth by my government?"

watch michael moore´s documentarys to get the truth

Alex Jones tried to talk to him about NORAD standing down for the first time ever on 9/11. Moore said it would be "un-American" to discuss a historical fact.

dont watch this flawed and dump documentary

What's flawed is your logic. Michael Moore blames Bush; Alex Jones blames those who should be blamed -- period.

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[–] sjensen-4 18 years ago

All what you are saing is a left-winged lie.

none of what you say is there any proof of.

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[–] G-Com 18 years ago

All what you are saing is a left-winged lie.

Forget the phony left/right paradigm. It's a lie to get us fighting amongst ourselves.

none of what you say is there any proof of.

Ask the people who witnessed it. Hundreds of people saying the same thing cannot be dismissed.

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[–] d_adamec 18 years ago

i helped edit alex's film, martial law...i know all about pier 57...definitely sign of things to come, of the martial law dictatorship our 'leaders' feel so bad about forcing us to live with...all because of that pesky 9/11...

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[–] sjensen-4 18 years ago

This whole documentary is a big lie, to make money.
Idiots who believe that elvis lives also beleives that Bush planned 9/11 - though he didnt....
the director is a clever buisnessman, who makes money of dump crackpots, who are willing to believe any thing

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[–] timberlax 18 years ago

And honestly, there were 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust, not 8 million! Try reading some books about the subject – it's called 'the real world'.

Actually, many believe that 6 million is an UNDERESTIMATE. I read a few books where it has been said that number is higher but there simply isn't physical proof to agree with it.

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[–] juan-93 18 years ago

Gun control would certainly be a step towards making the general population powerless/defensless and at the mercy of the govt. any one who doesn't realize that is deluded.

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[–] bigdcaldavis2000 18 years ago

Did you know there's a national health policy called "Healthy People 2010" which basically gives the government the power to declare like in Demoltion Man "anything that is unhealthy is bad for you, therefore illegal"? HP2010 declares guns to be unhealthy, so an anti-gun president could use HP2010 as a backdoor repeal of the Second Amendment. I don't think Alex Jones has ever discussed HP2010 on his radio show.

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[–] mr5150 18 years ago

“You get further with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone” – Al Capone

The government has adopted the same ideology. Everyone in government is carrying a gun. Heck! Even the tax man has a side arm.

Yet average Joe has been and is still being emasculated to the point of serfdom.

You can control the masses if you are the only one with the big guns.

Governments plans of total serfdom are slowly coming together with idiots who tout their kinder style of fascism as America’s saviour.

Truth passes through 3 stages. 1st-ridicule, 2nd-violently opposed, and 3rd, it's accepted as fact.

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[–] QMan000 17 years ago

Guns are fun, I say let them eat bullets.

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[–] SmileyRiley 16 years ago

The second amendment was put in place to protect people from their government. It has nothing to do with robbers or criminals. End of story.

People who deny this information, saying we're just conspiracy nuts who believe what ever we read, are the most hypocritical people on the planet. There are people that believe things like 9/11 truth or the false moon landing, or that Elvis is alive, or any other conspiracy (not saying that I believe in all of those) just for the sake of it, to probably feel like they're "in the know". Unlike them, most people actually have researched these things, and want to stop them. You can go on living your "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" lives, just deny the thousands of facts and evidence that prove these things wrong. Believe what our great leader has told us, because governments would never want to hurt us, I guess history shows that governments should be looked at as salvation, they've never murdered their own people, lied to their people, done any wrong to their people, since when has a government ever wanted to have complete control over a population?

For Christ's sake, it's beyond me how ego-driven people can be, we don't believe in stuff like the New World Order, the Illuminati, 9/11 truth for no reason. These things are real. And until you get your head out of your ass, research and realize the truth, the education will continue making children dumber, gun control will continue taking away our right to defend ourselves, our government will continue taking away our freedoms, and I can barely imagine what will happen next. Do you really want your children to be living in 1984?

We can all feel the revolution.
2007-2012 is the age of awakening. If we don't take hold of it, expect to see a reduced, micro-chipped population, too stupid to realize the truth.
It's coming. We gotta bond together and fight until the powers that be lose.

"And that's the double truth - Ruth!"

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