MovieChat Forums > Darkon (2006) Discussion > Who is the phony war veteran in DARKON?

Who is the phony war veteran in DARKON?

posted 16 years ago by Brendan3
29 replies | jump to latest

About 1:04 into the movie a young black man tells the film crew about some of his combat experience in the Army. It isn't clear from the editing whether he is talking about Iraq or Afghanistan, but he does give this unedited description of one of his experiences:

"We got dropped, about ten guys in the unit, into a neighborhood of all places because we were expecting like a clear drop zone and the doors open and we see houses. So we landed... I hit a roof. I landed on the roof."

He may have served in some capacity and he may have even been deployed over there, but I'm calling Bullsh*t on that story.

No jump that he describes ever happened.

Besides the minor problem of him not knowing how many men were in his small unit ("about ten").. I served on a six man reconaissance team... I'm not going to say "about six men in the unit"... it was six men... not something you forget. If he was in a unit of ten, he would say ten. But that's just quibbling.

But more importantly, there were no such airborne operations in either Iraq or Afghanistan. There were airborne operations (combat jumps) in Iraq (Haditha and Bashur to name two) but these were large scale mass tac jumps and there were none by small units anywhere near built up areas. Of the few combat jumps in Afghanistan, the only one that even remotely comes close to jumping near any structures was a jump to sieze an airfield South of Kandahar by a company of Rangers.

The jump he describes is pure fantasy.

[–] roybatty-1 16 years ago

Maybe he meant that "about ten guys from the [larger] unit" landed in the neighborhood, and the rest went elsewhere, but that since it was an inaccurate drop, there was no accurate headcount for him of the guys around him. So he said "about ten" because he could not count them accurately in the semi-urban terrain, and they were stragglers from a larger (more defined) force.

That's just my theory. Movies have to edit out a TON of what is said for economy and running time, so he may have said more in the exchange that was lost.

He seemed real enough to me. They showed him in his Dress uni.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

I understand that sometimes statements get edited and their context is lost.
But the quote that I cited (the one that rings false) is unedited. The camera never cuts away from him during that statement. Other things he mentioned were spliced together, so I didn't bother bringing them up.

There were no misdrops in either Iraq or Afghanistan. There were no impromptu units thrown together because of scattered drops like in WW2. His wording is telling. If he was part of a larger mass tac drop, he wouldn't refer to being part of a unit of "about ten men"... and if he was in a small unit, he would know the exact number. Some things you never forget. I can attest to that.

As to him showing a picture in his dress uniform... the picture he provided the film makers was a photo taken in basic training... It was a blank dress uniform... no unit patch, no crests, no MOS indicators, no ribbons... not even the Army Service Ribbon which is given upon completion of basic training. The picture only shows that he was in basic training for at least a week. I'll grant him that much experience. He could have washed out or he could have gone further... that picture says nothing except that he was in for at least a week.

But if he served in combat, especially in an airborne unit, don't you think he would have given the film makers a picture taken after the first week of basic training?

Aside from all of that, no such jump that he described happened in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

[–] roybatty-1 16 years ago

Maybe he felt the people he was talking to did not necessarily need or require utterly accurate and specific jargon? If he felt the interviewer would respond more positively to looser descriptions, he might be more lax and familiar. He might also not wish to appear as some ramrod-straight knowitall, so he used looser descriptions. And who knows, maybe he was "coached" by the interviewer to "summarize" a lengthier statement about his service; his unedited on-camera statement cannot disprove other (assumedly more accurate or truthful) statements not present in the finished film.

Anyway in the context of the movie, despite the debatable accuracy of his tale, the supposition that he was in "real" combat provides the filmmakers with the needed referent to their "fake" combat activities. It may not have been high on their priority list to verify all statements!

Regardless, very observant on your part regarding lack of uni awards etc. That's some good visual forensics. I also now wonder if he embellished his service. But since I did not rent this movie for a history lesson and just wanted to see some geeks pummel each other, I never really thought about it.

Great, now I have doubts too. Thanks a bunch, General.

[–] alan_v35 16 years ago

Roy, you are one of those guys who just has to argue about everything aren't you? If I was a veteran of that BS war, I would be sensitive about idiots claiming experiences they never had, as well. He makes a compelling arguement and is never rude. What a tragedy it is that he has shattered your image of one of your heroes.
My own theory about how this got in, is that the filmmakers are trying to show us what these people are really like, but not passing judgement. If this guy is lying, then they let him lie.
I still got a real kick out of this documentary which looks at off-beat people trying to find happiness and meaning in their lives, however they can. Many refer to a time when they were less socially skilled and credit the game with offering some small relief in that area...good for them. I liked it, but understand why some didn't. Later.

[–] roybatty-1 16 years ago

Nobody is slagging the movie, its subjects, our military vets, or anything else.

Its called a conversation. Figure it out. You may have one yourself some day as long as you don't start off with an insult.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

The guy, in my estimation, would have absolutely no reason to fabricate.

True. But there are countless times where people do, in fact, lie to glorify themselves for no reason at all. The world is filled with people who feel the need to embelish. I'm sure you've seen many yourself.

I find your claims that "no such jump that he described happened in either Iraq or Afghanistan" dubious. How could you know that? You are talking about two wars in two separate countries over a significant period of time, even given that the conversation was filmed a few years ago.

I know that because there is an accurate record of all airborne operations by both conventional and special operations units. There have only been two airborne operations conducted by conventional US forces.

-The 173rd Airborne Brigade's jump into Kurdish controlled Northern Iraq in March 2003
and
-B Company 3/504 PIR of the 82nd Airborne Division's jump into Western Afghanistan in February 2003

Both jumps by conventional Army units were in remote desolate areas.
The 173rd landed in several fields with friendly forces marking the drop zone below.
The 70 or so troops from the 82nd jumped into a remote barrend desert area to set up a defensive perimeter (in layman's terms watching the flank)to support a special operations mission that would be carried out simultaneously to their East.
Neither jump was near any built up area. Neither jump would have involved "landing in the middle of a neighborhood" let alone landing on a roof like this guy claimed.

But what about Special Operations units that made combat jumps... most are classified. The best known declassified jump was one company from 3rd Ranger Battalion siezing an airfield at a dry lake bed in Afghanistan in October 2001. This dry lake bed airfield would eventually become Camp Rhino as troops and supplies would be air landed there.

Here are all the other Special Operations Jumps:

-B Co 3rd Ranger battalion Alimarden Kan-E-Bagat, Afghanistan November 2001

-2nd Ranger Battalion near Chahar Borjak, Nimruz Province, Afghanistan February 2003 (this is the operation for which the unit from 82nd Airborne division jumped to set up a blocking position)

-C Co 3rd Ranger battalion and 24th USAF STSD in the Desert of Northwest Iraq near the Syrian Border March 2003

-A Co and HQ Co 3rd Ranger Battalion to sieze the H1 Airfield west of the Haditha Dam, Iraq March 2003

-Ranger Regimental Recon Detatchment HALO jump Southeast Afghanistan July 2004

The above is a complete list of all Airborne jumps in Iraq or Afghanistan prior to September 2006... a total of eight.
All were in remote areas.
All, with the exception or the 173rd jump into Northern Iraq, were night time jumps.

So the guy in Darkon lied about his experience.
"We got dropped, about ten guys in the unit, into a neighborhood of all places because we were expecting like a clear drop zone and the doors open and we see houses. So we landed... I hit a roof. I landed on the roof."

No such jump ever happened.

As to your question about how I would know or what my concern is. As a veteran, I take personal offense when I hear someone telling lies about their experience in the military. Even though I'm out now, I'm still very much in the loop about certain things... particularly combat jumps. Unless he was in some super secret squirrel hush hush unit that I never heard of, way above my clearance... in which case he wouldn't be talking about it on film. :-)

Most people shrug it off and shake their heads when somebody is caught lying about their military service. I take it personaly.
Why? Who does it harm?
It dishonors the men who actually do those sort of things, not just embelish stories.

[–] roybatty-1 16 years ago

That's some thorough intel you offer up, many thanks. Hopefully you understand that we who are not veterans lack the experience and knowledge to be able to immediately spot fakers. I play Devil's Advocate often, but not in the spirit of agitation.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

I am not going to argue your info, though I find it highly unlikely to be all-encompassing

Really? Why? You know something I don't about recent airborne operations? Good thing you're not going to argue my info... just dismiss it instead.

You are assuming that the young man who made this comment was attempting to glorify himself. How so, exactly? Is merely participating in a war reason for glory?

I stated that people do, in fact, lie for no reason. If you wish to dispute that, if you've never heard of an instance where a person has lied about themselves for no reason, go right ahead.

You have no claim to greater offense, and in fact making that statement is questionable.

I also did not mention my veteran status to lay claim to a greater offense. I was simply answering a question. Another poster here asked why it bothered me if this person was lying. I answered and my being a veteran is part of the answer.

Army regulars are dross, they will take almost anyone. I know many people love to talk about "glory," but let's face facts: when one is in the military, one does what one is told.
...
Assuming that simply serving in the armed forces, in a conflict or not, is reason for honor is ridiculous. I know many who were stone-cold cowards, and let's not forget those who rape and murder innocent civilians.

It is clear from the above comment that you know little about the military and think little of those who serve. Fine.

Further, assuming that he would not have mentioned such a general occurrence had he higher clearance than you is also silly.

So you presume there were other operations based n your vast experience and knowledge?

[–] vitalymakievsky 16 years ago

That guy may or may not be lying, though I don't think your reasons are good enough. Second, there are a lot of things that happen in Iraq that you have never herd of I guarantee you this. The only thing you are doing is possibly insulting a guy for no reason by calling him a phony.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

That guy may or may not be lying, though I don't think your reasons are good enough. Second, there are a lot of things that happen in Iraq that you have never herd of I guarantee you this. The only thing you are doing is possibly insulting a guy for no reason by calling him a phony.

You guarantee me there were other Airborne operations besides the ones I listed?
I'd love to hear about it.
Or are you just making an uninformed assumption?
I'm making the accusation for no reason?
I thought I laid it out clearly. Sorry.

[–] captdamit 16 years ago

I'm sure the goverment tells the people everything that happens in the war. So unless you are a very high ranking official in the military, you would not know about every, if any, airborne missions........and if you are a high ranking official, that says a lot about our country that you are telling these military secrets on an imdb message board.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

The opinion you offered is clearly based on no actual knowledge of the way things actualy work in the military.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mister-rube 16 years ago

My good friend is serving in the 101st Airborne division and they don't do any jumps.
He's on his 2nd tour. Why would you need to jump in either Iraq or Afghanistan?

'the horror... the horror...'

[–] bpolhemus 16 years ago

Thanks for this. Those of a certain political persuasion have taken it upon themselves to gin up this false view of the war in the Middle East, and I think you may have just nailed one of 'em.

[–] sleepwaking 16 years ago

And . . . so . . . the question I have is what point is to be made even if the question of the vet's authenticity were to be unequivocally answered? It is foolish to engage in debate with someone who starts off slinging judgment, but without a clear agenda.

We can assume the initial poster is pissed off that someone would lie about military experience (which, if true, is loathsome to me as well) . . .but, that is an assumption. I would ask for more clarity about what this thread is going to accomplish.

-... ..- -.. -.. .... .- -....- -... ..- -.. -.. -.--
Will

[–] jmtrail1970 16 years ago

"And you make the ridiculous claim that the above statements mean that i A) Know little about the military, and B) think little of those who serve"

Gee, I wonder what made him think that you think little of the people who serve in the military. This is the full definition too so don't accuse me of editing. Link is at the bottom of the message.

Main Entry: dross
Pronunciation: \ˈdräs, ˈdrȯs\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English dros, from Old English drōs dregs
Date: before 12th century
1 : the scum that forms on the surface of molten metal
2 : waste or foreign matter : impurity
3 : something that is base, trivial, or inferior
— drossy \ˈdrä-sē, ˈdrȯ-\ adjective

Oh and here's what the Thesaurus has to say- adjective
Lacking all worth and value: good-for-nothing, inutile, no-good, valueless, worthless. Informal: no-account. Slang: nothing. See value Text: discarded or useless material <get rid of the dross before closing up the shop> — see garbage

Nobody is nothing not even a moron like you.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dross

[–] terrorshivan872 16 years ago

I'm a member of Darkon, been fighting for about 8 years now. I haven't seen the movie, as im actually stationed Navy, in pensacola, FL, atm, and missed the premier. I can't say for sure, but the person you describe sounds like a guy who goes by the name of Sin, within the game. He, at the time of filming, often liked to bring up that he was in the military, and claimed to be special forces. I can't say for sure that its *beep* but just about everything else out of his mouth, at that time, was.

For the record, and in case he reads this now, he's now much better than he was. We don't even go out of our way to shield bash him into trees anymore...usually.

[–] Brendan3 16 years ago

the person you describe sounds like a guy who goes by the name of Sin, within the game. He, at the time of filming, often liked to bring up that he was in the military, and claimed to be special forces. I can't say for sure that its *beep* but just about everything else out of his mouth, at that time, was.

That sounds about right. Thanks.

[–] wdrr 16 years ago

Isn't it amazing how people were more apt to quickly jump on you and come up with all kinds of crazy concoctions and insults only to be wrong! (Rather than just be honest, take the simplest explanation - he was liar - and move on).

[–] mister-rube 16 years ago

What are you crying about.

'ICH BIN DER ZORN GOTTES ! ! !'

[–] slinky317 15 years ago

Maybe he refers to fastroping out of a Blackhawk, and not necessarily parachuting?

[–] Matteson81 13 years ago

Umm, no. He clearly states he was jumping into a supposedly clear LZ, only to find that when the doors opened, they saw bldgs. and jumped anyway, which resulted in him landing on a roof. Im former military, and I can tell you that the guy is either A) lying or B) grossly embellishing. Both are insulting.

[–] leifthelatinlover 12 years ago

Who cares?

[–] Brendan3 12 years ago

You do, if you replied.
If you don't like the topic, don't be a part of the conversation. Welcome to the internet.

[–] leifthelatinlover 12 years ago

No I meant who cares as in, why do you care so much about proving his story was not true? I highly doubt that the guy is benefiting from his story, I didn't even remember it until I watched the movie again after seeing this post. It just seems like a lot of effort has been put into refuting a story that had nothing to do with the rest of the movie?

[–] JediRob 10 years ago

What awesome thread. Excellent job by the OP for coming up with a point and backing it up with awesome facts. Makes total sense that the guy was lying.

This thread is equally entertaining for the other people crapping on the thread for no reason whatsoever with zero evidence. And the OP knocking every detractor down with ease.

Very entertaining.