MovieChat Forums > The Wind That Shakes the Barley (2007) Discussion > English people don't get this, accept it

English people don't get this, accept it

posted 14 years ago by ciaramc5
44 replies | jump to latest

Irish people are educated for years on our history, English people learn about their monarchs and other colonial crap. They don't know or appreciate what the people in this film did to preserve our culture cos they have no previous knowledge of the situation. Its frustrating and upsetting when you read about it being IRA consenting and other such *beep* but it is what it is.

We know what it means; our language, sports, culture, religion survived cos these ppl fought for it. Not hating English people at all, I promise; its just it means more to us cos its ours. And dismissing it as radical is subjective, cos those ppl are the only reason we are Irish and not British today.

Its great our relationship with England is good today, that in itself was a long but worthwhile road; but it means alot to Irish people to preserve what people died for and I don't think that understanding is as built-in with English people.

[–] soupster1 14 years ago

I thought this was a forum for discussing films? If I want a lecture about history I'll go to wikipedia.
if this movie is merely a vehicle for passive/aggressive nationalism... then i won't bother watching it.

As for your racist assumption that understanding is determined by nationality.... poor you.

[–] lmchildress 14 years ago

It's not a vehicle for passive/aggressive nationalism. You should watch it. It gives the truth about what fighting for freedom does to the fighters. It is ultimately about how killing dehumanizes the killers, be they English or Irish.

Also, the other poster was not being racist, but rather pointing out that someone who is not taught about what happened and why will not understand. It's the same as the American Civil War. Southerners until recently were not taught in their schools about the reasons for the war, but rather were taught that it was a war of Northern aggression, omitting the fact of slavery entirely. I doubt that English schools teach English children about the centuries long oppression of a people by their government, any more than they teach the truth about the American Revolution.

[–] JFDAddison5458 14 years ago

I'm sorry but both the OP and the lmchildress are wrong. The history of British involvment in Ireland is taught extensively in schools along with other aspects of history such as the 1832 reform act, repeal of the corn laws and the chartist movements. In fact from my recollection it features more promiently than either WW1 or WW2.

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. (Dr Strangelove)

[–] silas-goodman 9 years ago

Mein Führer! I can walk!

[–] journalist1 9 years ago

"Of course, the whole 'point' of a Doomsday device is lost if you keep it a secret, why didn't you tell anyone eh!?"

I choose to believe what my religion programs me to believe.

[–] JayBee-66 9 years ago

Not in any English school I went to.

Romans (never the Celts), Saxons, Vikings and Normans. That was all I was ever taught.

I never learned one thing about Ireland in English schools other than "You're a thick paddy" followed by a punch in the face.

I had to teach myself Irish history.

[–] IndyCelt 8 years ago

The history of British involvment in Ireland is taught extensively in schools ... In fact from my recollection it features more promiently than either WW1 or WW2.

That's not the recollection of many English people I've talked to. They all wondered what went wrong in Northern Ireland, where the IRA came from, and what their beef was.

Those who went and researched what I told them were genuinely shocked.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (6241938) 11 years ago

If I want a lecture about history I'll go to wikipedia.

Not to books?

[–] PsychoDingo 11 years ago

I would say the movie is more active-aggressive

I'm proud to say my poetry is only understood by that minority which is aware.

[–] Nathars 14 years ago

re. the carolinian

Gosh, we must stop upsetting you like that.

The Pooka

[–] rcorbally2007 14 years ago

@ THECAROL I had to say i lauphed reading that comment, comming from a yank. Us Irish have accomplished our fights with dignity. The americans just but there noes in were its not wanted and cause havoc in the world for what??? material things!!! So you tip on back to your baseball game yank! and leave the true fighting to the irish!!! the born hard fighting nation that takes 0 *beep* from anybody. And for somebody that hates the topic of the Irish you must have typed in THE WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY to get here you MUPPET!!!!

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[–] rcorbally2007 14 years ago

De velera was a scum bag! he had his tounges up american asses! whilst the real hero michael collins fought for our country and gave us back the republic!

As for americans.... killing innocent men women and children in iraq i think its the americans that are the real scumbags!

God you must realy love the irish, you typed THE WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY in your computer again tonight to be able to reply here, your a fraud and a hypocrit! if you dont like the irish then why even goodle anything irish into your computer?

We are not still fighting the same "damn" war! we won it over 90 years ogo you twat! we ran the brits out of the republic, we brought them to there knees using tactics that an american nor british little brain could ever imagine. americans are the same catagory as aldolf hitler! dirty bastards that try to take over the world! BUT FAIL! yous cant even fight your way out of a recession never mind a war!

[–] Nathars 14 years ago

Rcorbally-2007

You need to study history a bit more dispassionately, and approach that subject with an open mind, You might find that your preconceptions are not based that soundly. I don't think you knew either of the two persons that you mentioned. Most historians would say you were very wrong about both persons.

It is very difficult to win an argument by calling people scumbags up front (whether Irish or American).

Carolinian, I think you too need to learn that the American War of Independence had many innocent civilian casualties on both sides of the argument. I hope you don't get your history from Hollywood either. There were very many Americans at the time who were loyal to the British King and paid for it with their lives and those of their children also. That side of the conflict is airbrushed to make the winners look squeaky clean.

The Pooka

[–] yamagata673 14 years ago

I get the distinct impression that Mr. Carolinian is a priveleged white boy protestant that grew up learning that Catholics aren't christians and in fact are barely human. I've met the type before. I wouldn't point this out but I found it weird that you brought up papists and French in a conversation about Irish independence.
And for the Irish people on here that may not know, most Americans don't feel this way at all. Many of us have a strange romanticism about the IRA and Irish independence, probably because we see parallels with our own fight against the Brits. We always have a weird love of the underdogs in a fight.

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[–] yamagata673 14 years ago

sorry for generalizing but I'll admit I don't know a lot of southerners but I'll tell you my family is straight from the hills of north carolina, ARE Irish, fought in the American revolution (possibly in 1812 as well but I know for sure they were in the revolution). And I myself am from Michigan, not a heavily Irish area. But I suppose it may be a mostly northern thing.
How about I amend my statement to say "the northern half of the US mostly has a romantic idea of the IRA".
We're the good half of the US anyway... (*SARCASM*)

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] yamagata673 14 years ago

Interesting. My family in North Carolina is Catholic Irish as far as I know. At any rate, the ones that moved to Michigan are.
I'm in the Detroit area, east suburbs.

[–] inepttrooper 14 years ago

Sorry to break it to you, but the American Revolution would have failed miserably in the long run with massive financial and military aid from France and various other countries, aid that Ireland lacked and therefore had to rely on more extremist tactics. Additionally, the US enslaved and murdered entire groups of people to establish their country, so I doubt they have the high ground to judge other countries' independence movements.

[–] Nathars 14 years ago

re inepttrooper,

Well put,

I wonder does the name Layfayette mean anything to Carolininan, he will probably have to google it to try to find out. Sad man really.

Catholics are a 12th century Roman breakaway religion from the one true church founded by Christ (the ultimate Christian), namely the Orthodox Church.

Protestants are Catholic reformers who have decided on looser structures to use religion to become wealthy, unlike the Roman model who became wealthy in a more disciplined corporate way. In fact the catholic model is more reflective of the Western Model of large independent corporations generating huge wealth.

Carolinian, ever hear of General Pershing?

The Pooka

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] yamagata673 14 years ago

Lafayette, nous sommes ici! The Americans have always acknowledged the French role in the revolution. Lafayette Park, Lafayette Boulevard here in Detroit. Not to say we wouldn't have won the revolution without them. In a war of attrition such as the Revolution, the home force will nearly always win and the British were fighting from across the ocean. But it would have been longer and we would have sustained even more losses than we did.

The French were instrumental in the Yorktown siege. They lent plenty of soldiers to our forces BUT they were more important on the seas as we had did not have much of a navy at the time.

As for Pershing, I don't know what the hell he's talking about.

[–] Hotrodder 14 years ago

You're missing out a few related factors- the French were kicking off in Europe too, creating a threat to the British homeland that couldn't be ignored effectively meaning that Britain had to keep most of her forces there. Also the war was an unpopular one at home, most feeling that we shouldn't be fighting our kith and kin, and most wanted to see a resolution to it.
As an aside, I often wonder how the American colonists felt at having to take French help as many would have fought the French previously and they were enemies of our blood after all. They also must have known the French weren't doing it because they wanted to help the colonists but to get at Britain itself. They must have been worried too that by allying themselves to the French they might just assist a French attack on the Mother Country. They do say war makes strange bedfellows.

"Trust me. I know what I'm doing."

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Hotrodder 14 years ago

Hi Nathars! How's it going?

"Trust me. I know what I'm doing."

[–] Mossa0802 14 years ago

I'm English, I teach the History of Ireland. We get it. Don't assume we're all ignorant idiots. My pupils are under no illusions about the impact of Imperialism after I teach them believe me.

[–] ben101-1 13 years ago

Mossa0802
Thats great to hear,
I had a british history book from the sixties or seventies and i kid you not it had a quote that went something like "Oliver Cromwell came back from ireland after a successful campaign"
I think they left out a bit there.

[–] IndyCelt 13 years ago

Agreed, great to hear Mossa. Most of my English friends were completely unaware of the empire's behavior in Ireland until I filled them in. I guess the curriculum has changed recently?

I wonder what do they teach about South/Central America in Spanish schools?

[–] InsaneFreedom 12 years ago

The history of Ireland must be a choice subject. I spent the last two summers working in London (love it, have no stupid qualms about English people now - just the dead ones) but I found that the majority of people I spoke to had no idea of the history.
One person asked me if Ireland had the same Prime Minister as the UK. Another said, "I know that Northern Ireland and Ireland is different but I'm not sure which one is ruled by Britain."
It's this sort of ignorance which would drive you mad if you let it.

Éire is tir an fearr sa domhain!

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[–] PsychoDingo 11 years ago

I'm an American who loves baseball, hates my country's application of foreign policy and being the bully of the world, and thinks The Wind that Shakes the Barley is an amazing movie.

So where does this leave me?

I'm proud to say my poetry is only understood by that minority which is aware.

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[–] Joxerlives 10 years ago

I'm as Irish as you are and love my Queen and country, your fascism, hypcorisy and racism make me sick, thank god for the Shamrock awakening

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Sir_Digby_Chicken_Ceasar 9 years ago

How is the monarchy "colonial"? 

[–] IMDb-Rot_in_Hell 9 years ago

The British people seem to have no idea that they are complete scum.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

That was really uncalled for. Your post is being reported to the moderators.