Too many errors...


Sergeant Major Blaine is not called Sarge, or Sergeant or Top. Top's are First Sergeant's which is both a rank and a position. So, even if Sergeant Major Blaine holds the position of First Sergeant, he's still called Sergeant Major. In fact, I'll give you even odds that his kids even call him Sergeant Major.

Nobody in the Army refers to Sergeant's of any pay grade as Sarge. It's not done. Try S'arnt. You hear that.

Sergeant Major Haney knows this.

Next, they wear Green Berets. The teams are specially tasked units within Special Forces Command. Therefore, give them Green Berets.

I suppose that it's not worth pointing out that most teams are run by officers not enlisted personnel because someone will just say I don't know anything about the special operator community and I don't know this and I don't know that. Blah, blah, blah. Whatever. It's not usual. Maybe Delta does it differently. Dunno, but I doubt it.

One other interesting fact. Fort Bragg's housing areas have names. One of them is named Belleau Wood. Sound familiar? Belleau Wood was a battle in WWII.

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Other than that did you like the show?? :)

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While I never served in special ops, I am familiar with some of their activity. As far as 'Top' CSM's in regular units do not traditionally have combat teams, they are admins and liaisons of their battalion or brigade etc, and they primarily direct the commanders enlisted staff, so maybe Top is a sign of respect from his team. Don't know for sure.

As far as Sarge, on Ft Bragg (real home of Delta) it was an acceptable term between NCO's (not OK for lower ranks), so this may depend on where someone served.

The Unit is obviously Delta. While Delta is Special Forces, they are JSOC, not regular US Army Special Forces(USASOC). Delta does not wear berets (maybe they do now that almost everyone in the military does). Only regular Army Special Forces unit members (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 10th, plus some national Guard units) wear the green beret. Delta members are not necessarily former Green Berets.

Delta does do it differently because of the team makeup. Most officers are not interested in special ops because it used to be a career killer. Officers are expected to move frequently, and all the investment in training for Delta would preclude frequent movement of team members. Based on time in service, an officer would need to (almost) be a Captain before he would even be considered for Delta, so you can see how you would quickly run out of command spots for more than a select few officers. The makeup of regular Army Special Forces units have this same problem. Remember Black Hawk Down? I don't believe there were any officers in the Delta units involved.

All in all I find the show to be very true to reality, excepting of course the involvement of the spouses in operations. I do not think that would ever happen.

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[deleted]

Hmmm.

303rd Logistical Studies Group is a Group. It isn't mentioned in the show whether they're a Company, a Battalion, a Regiment or a Cub Scout Troop. You're only assuming it's a company. Therefore, your cover story argument is a leap at best. Also, they don't seem to use their cover ranks and stuff between themselves in private, so I think it's an oversight and sloppy writing.

I stand by my Sarge statement. Every time I heard it, the speaker got corrected by the recipient.

Your response is exactly why I said "someone will just say I don't know anything about the special operator community and I don't know this and I don't know that. Blah, blah, blah. Whatever. It's not usual. Maybe Delta does it differently. Dunno, but I doubt it". Knowing that 18 series MOS's are SF MOS's does not indicate that you have any significant experience on the subject about which you are speaking only that you are adept at Google searches.

Not a dependent. Former active duty Army. I did notice that it isn't Bragg. It's fictional. The main gate shot in the lead-in looks like AP Hill's main gate and Belleau Wood is (or maybe was) a housing complex neighborhood at Bragg - or maybe Pope.

Oops. Meant WWI. Sorry for the typo. BTW, insinuate is spelled with an S.

H

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[deleted]

Uncle.

Do you agree about the main gate at AP Hill being the one shown in the intro? Not the one they use as a set - I think that's most likely a gate at the studio or an actual set, but the one on the intro. The perspective shows a tank - I think it's an M24 Chaffee - on the right hand side of the screen.

H

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I don't think so. it is somewhat similar, however I was there not to long ago. I work at Dam Neck, and all of the sailors and marines there were evacuated to AP hill for the hurricane, and it is a lot more heavily wooded than the main gate from the show. Of course, there could be digital magic at work there too.

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"Next, they wear Green Berets. The teams are specially tasked units within Special Forces Command. Therefore, give them Green Berets."

Though falling under USASOC, they are controlled by JSOC, and despite the title of 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta, they are not Army "Special Forces", Like the 160th SOAR, the 75 rangers, Psy Ops, etc., Delta is seperate from the Special Forces, therefore they wouldn't wear a green beret. Also, given the nature of Delta, they wouldn't wear anything indicative of their organization, whether in the field or on post.

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It's called creative licence. Every writer and producer takes it. They have technical advisors who offer their opinions and advice, but at the end of the day it's up to the director's whether they use it or not. Most Hollywood advisors make their peace with this quickly.

The Unit depicts Delta Force. Delta are not Green Berets. Many members come from the Green Berets, but they are two distinctive units.

Unless you've served in Delta, you don't know how they work. However read Dalton Fury's book. that will give you an idea of how the ranking structure works within Delta.

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I'm going with 1.) creative license 2.) when they did wear berets, the color was not green. only saw one picture of that and it was at a funeral with guys in uniform. berets were black. 3.) the nomenclature is correct (sarge stuff) so no worries. 4.) wives in action would never happen. That did not help the show. Dalton Fury book is most recent book on org structure. Haney's reflects 70s-80s.

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There are lots of other errors. That's OK if the show is just trying to tell a good story and not be realistic, but I think a lot of viewers are actually trying to learn something from the show.

I only lasted two episodes, but in those first two episodes:

1 - The Unit misunderstands the Posse Comitatus Act, which in real life would get them all 2-year prison sentences. And, no, the President can't authorize anyone to break the law.
2 - Their violation of Posse Comitatus is investigated by the FBI, which actually has no jurisdiction over members of the military.
3 - The investigation terminates because the Unit is overseas, when, in actuality, that would not have stopped Army CID.
4 - The Unit is entrusted with retrieving a Chinese missile, which, for some reason, has Japanese writing on it.
5 - not an error, but really, Dennis Haysbert, not the quickest guy in the world, is able to board a plane with 3 armed terrorists on it, and shoot them all without any of the passengers getting a scratch or without any of the terrorist managing to press the button to blow up the plane.

In all fairness, I didn't last long through the earlier British version, Ultimate Force, about the SAS. Strike Back is way better. Unless you really want to watch soldiers arguing with their wives.

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"5 - not an error, but really, Dennis Haysbert, not the quickest guy in the world, is able to board a plane with 3 armed terrorists on it, and shoot them all without any of the passengers getting a scratch or without any of the terrorist managing to press the button to blow up the plane. "

Never served in the millitairy but I did read Haney's book. He was one of the original members of Delta and was part of the aborted rescue mission in Iran during the hostage crisis. He was also the technical advisor on the show. In his book he talked about the origins of Delta and, if I recall correctly, the original intent was to create a team trained to storm and secure a hijacked jet, due to the rash of airline hijackings in the 1970s. They trained in planes and shoot houses and fired some ridiculous amount of ammo (I believe it was something like one million rounds per unit per month. They built the buildings themselves and sat in themselves as hostages while their team mates shot manikin "terrorists" with live rounds. He talked about the system they had that allowed them to clear a building without unnecessary overthinking and how efficient they became. He stated that they could clear a plane or room in a three or four seconds, generally before the target could even react. They would enter, identify targets, and fire. If anything, to me, the scene in the show lasted way too long. He also said that in all the hundreds of times they practiced entering and clearing a room with live hostages, they never once had a casualty.

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As someone who knows sweet F-A about the American Military that I haven't picked up from a film, I can't comment on accuracy, but it was at least consistent and didn't (for me) detract from the quality of the show.

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I grew up on Ft. Bragg in the Bastogne Gables community. My father was a 1st Sergeant in the 82nd Airborne. People always referred to him as Top or 1st Sergeant. I never heard anyone refer to him as Sergeant. I think he would have jumped their ass if they had!

There was no Belleau Woods when I lived there (1983-1991) ... but I'm sure things have changed since.

I always thought the team ranks were a little strange in Alpha Unit. As it stood, You had an E9 Sergeant Major (Snake Doc), an E8 first Sergeant (Dirt Diver) (although he is referred to as 1st Sergeant and a Master Sergeant throughout the series and Tiffy calls him Sergeant Major in one episode) 2 E7 Sergeant First Class's, (Betty Blue and Hammerhead) and one E6 Staff Sergeant (Cool Breeze)who later is promoted to E7.

I always thought that it would be more feasible to have a Captain or Major leading with a 1st Sergeant and several other lower ranking Sergeants.

Side note: I know Delta is different in how the interact, however, Rep Cap was a Warrant Officer and out ranked everyone except Colonel Ryan. Yet they talked to her as a subordinate.

Nice job. Good post with some valid points.

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I suppose that it's not worth pointing out that most teams are run by officers not enlisted personnel because someone will just say I don't know anything about the special operator community and I don't know this and I don't know that. Blah, blah, blah. Whatever. It's not usual. Maybe Delta does it differently. Dunno, but I doubt it.

One of the constant complaints about the special operations community is that enlisted deploy too much and officers deploy too little. A corollary is that while enlisted are expected to continuously develop their skills, officers are expected to switch to a progressively more managerial role. In the case of units like Delta, this means that very few officers get to develop the level of skill expected of operators at this level. While it is understood that there are at least SOME officers operating in such units, it is not entirely implausible that an NCO would be in tactical command of a small team like the Unit describes. Especially considering that Delta and ST6 have always done things their own way, and are likely less concerned about traditional procedure than in what works best for them.


http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-common-movie-arguments-that-are-always-wrong/

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The Army itself contributes to the reality which The Unit alludes too. Aside from Delta, SF Officers are involuntarily pipelined into 'management'. An SF Captain does 1 tour upon completion of training as the Commander of an ODA. That will be the extent of their pure operational capacity in SF. Rarely an 18A will get an extended tour but, almost never will get more than that. This is a mentality designed not to give 18As experience as Operators but experience on the capabilities of the operators and how best to employ them. The vast majority of 18As move directly on to Battalion where they are groomed for Major and finished up for a Company XO and CO dual tour. Its really planned out for them before they ever begin. The small portion of 18As that come off their knife and fork time and go to JSOC will wait in line to go to Delta. Even then those who get into Delta wont be free of the Army Pipeline. Once they are Majors they will have little operational time left in any entity.

While enlisted types will stay in JSOC for all branches rotating between deployable units and cadre or other non-deployable entities, Army Officers will rotate out, some will come back to take their place on the next rung others will never come back. Thats where that Army is different. Army SF and SF Officers who have been in JSOC will be expected to do Staff and Command Tours in Big Army Units.

Its not at all a myth that the core of the Special Operations Community is dominated by Enlisted when it comes to Operational Capacity. Even though the Teacher(Officer)to Student(Enlisted) classrom ratio (not a direct comparison) is far lower than the Big Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines. The Biggest difference is that Enlisted Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marine almost always stay in Special Operations. Officers with rare exception dont have a choice. Be it ASOC, AFSOC, NSW or MARSOC, Officers are always going to end up rotating into something completey unrelated to Special Operations. Their Enlisted Counterparts will have to either be injured, old, disavowed or non-hackers to do the same.

Warmonger by day, poet by night!

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My own contact with the American military is exactly zero. However, I have had some very glancing contact with SF in my own country. Here, your military rank prior to joining SF is irrelevant - you essentially get issued the rank of Trooper once you get badged, which is the basic rank. You then advance from there. This means that someone who was say a Corporal in the regular army could end up ordering about someone who had risen to Staff Sergeant in the regular army. The only thing that a SF soldier retains from his previous life in the regular army is his pay band. I mention all of this because Delta was originally based on the British SAS, which is also what my national SF unit was originally based on. Relevance - I have no idea.

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