MovieChat Forums > The Great Ecstasy of Robert Carmichael (2006) Discussion > A pretentious, unoriginal rip off of Her...

A pretentious, unoriginal rip off of Herzog, Kubrick + Haneke


This film is well shot, but the director needs to find his own style instead of blatantly apeing others'. This film is so completely unorignal - everything down to the title. It is a complete embarrasment, indeed I hope the director is embarrased. I don't know what demons the director is struggling with - but he certinaly isn't interested in bringing us good stories, or life affirming, or exploratory metaphors and allegory, like the directors he mimicks. This director/writer is clearly obsessed by certain facets of European cinema and is using his blinkered understanding to process his own near fascist visual perversions.

I apologise for this strong response - but this film really is disturbingly bad and unoriginal, and makes me despair for the art form.

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Wait till you see his new film Soi Cowboy. It's a blatant rip-off of the Thai filmmaker Apichatpong Weerasethakul with some really obvious references to Wong Kar-Wai and Michelangelo Antonioni thrown in for good measure.

It's one thing taking influence from the people you admire - or indulging in playful homage like Tarantino - but this is just copy and paste filmmaking.

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I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Soi Cowboy is a film about the Laotian-speaking people of the poor Isaan region - at 34% of the population, the largest ethnic group in Thailand - who have been persistently oppressed and exploited by the Chinese Thai minority. In particular, it depicts an economically uneven relationship between an Isaanese Thai and a foreigner, of whom 14m visit Thailand every year and on whom the Thai economy relies.

If, however, we are to believe the cinematic world of Weerasethakul or Ratangarung - upper class Thais educated in United States - the people of Isaan and foreigners simply do not exist in Thailand. Imagine a white South African in the 1980s, making films about the 'relationship troubles' of white South Africans whilst refusing to cast black actors, and you may begin to grasp the size of the problem. You may also begin to understand why Soi Cowboy is one of the most necessary and refreshing films of the year - and a scathing critique of Weerasethakul, if anything.

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I really don't think Clay is in any kind of position to critique Weerasethakul; perhaps if Weerasethakul had made a film as empty and self-satisfied as The Great Ecstasy of Robert Carmichael then there would be some grounds for a debate. Also, I should point out that when I said, somewhat hyperbolically and perhaps unfairly, that the film was a "rip-off" of Weerasethakul, I wasn't necessarily referring to the social background or the setting of the film (although I don't see anything particularly middle-class about the characters in Tropical Malady or Phantoms of Nabua, or indeed how Weerasethakul portrays them), but was instead referring to the general structure of the film, and in particular the mid-narrative split.

As you probably know, Weerasethakul is generally noted for this approach to storytelling, having used the device several times in his work over the course of the decade - most notably in Tropical Malady - and the appropriation of it from Clay seems incredibly shameless given how obviously Robert Carmichael drew on its own cinematic influences, which have seemingly been rejected in Soi Cowboy (you would never imagine for a second that both films were directed by the same man).

The film itself may have some important things to say about the politics or economic structure of contemporary Thailand, or even in critiquing the way someone like Weerasethakul tells his stories, but that doesn't necessarily relate to the success of the film as a whole. However, seeing any of this as meaningful to Clay as an artist or as a human being is quite difficult when so far his work seems to be of the level of a highbrow Tarantino; desperately trying on different styles until he finds something that works. Maybe I've misjudged him, but for now it seems like the idea comes first and any kind of feeling for his subject or intellectual understanding of when to cut, when not to cut, where to use colour, where to use monochrome, etc, is given secondary importance to how the idea might be received on a purely academic level.

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But I would suggest that, if you see it as a leftist repose to Syndromes and a Century, the mid-way split makes perfect sense. Where Weerasethakul portrays the urban/rural divide in terms of whistful nostalgia and humour, Clay highlights the economic reality, the deep-seated inequality and injustice. A matter of taste (and politics) which approach one prefers, I guess.

> you would never imagine for a second that both films were directed by the same man

I don't know... The framing and the pacing are similar (although the first film has fewer close-ups) and both share a rather unfashionable anti-capitalist agenda (although the argument is sharper and more complex in the latter film). Nevertheless, yes, they are quite different... Personally, I see a bit of range in a director as a good thing - but then I'm someone who finds worth in Tarantino's work also.

> intellectual understanding of when to cut, when not to cut

Form and aesthetics are not subject to intellectual consensus...

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I'm not talking about the subject matter - my criticism was aimed at his film-making style!

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Compared to what? A Prophet? The Class? Fish Tank? The Hurt Locker? Pan's Labyrinth? No Country for Old Men?...

These films are supposedly the ne plus ultra of modern arthouse cinema and, yet, on a purely formal level at least, Clay's debut is far more striking. The presentation of multiple conversations within a single wide composition (not something I've seen from Kubrick or Haneke either), the restraint applied to the use of close-ups and the power these close-ups then attain (ditto), the selective use of plan sequence at key dramatic moments (ie. an intelligent marrying of form and subject).

I find it interesting that modern audiences will far more readily accept formal conformity and cliche than any attempt at rigour and invention (see, also, the hostility of responses on these boards towards the likes of Dumont, Serra, Mundruzco, Alonso, etc).

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