MovieChat Forums > Die Päpstin (2009) Discussion > Catholic Encyclopedia article

Catholic Encyclopedia article


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08407a.htm

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They would write that, wouldn't they?

With the bias against women that sprang up in the Middle Ages, even the vague possibility that a woman (sordid and damnable creatures as we are) could have attempted to make her way into the clergy must be quite a blow to some Catholics.

Just as only few (usually educated people) realise that it was actually the Romans, and FEMALE Romans in particular, who gave rise to Christianity in the first place.

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"They would write that, wouldn't they? "

Yes, "they" would. Factual history is good.


"With the bias against women that sprang up in the Middle Ages"

I would say that bias had sprung its spring long before that. Interestingly, there were quite a number of opportunities for women in the Middle Ages that did not exist prior. See 'Women at Work in Medieval Europe' by Madeleine Pelner Cosman.


"could have attempted to make her way into the clergy must be quite a blow to some Catholics."

Not really. See 'Voice of the Living Light' and 'Sister of Wisdom' by Barbara Newman.


"Just as only few (usually educated people) realise that it was actually the Romans, and FEMALE Romans in particular, who gave rise to Christianity in the first place."

And even fewer of those educated, it would appear, who realize that both males and females were responsible for the rise of Christianity-- no gender particularities required.



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No offense or overt feminism intended; I merely tried to tailor my reply to the article in question which isn't that neutral as well.

Factual history's good, thanks for the references BTW, but let's take into account semantics for a sec: "bias" and "opportunities" isn't the same thing.
You're right in saying that the bias against women roots far earlier; even our friends from antiquity sometimes display that view, e.g. Pliny the Elder when describing how to get rid of vermin. But the sad fact remains that all the stuff about women's bodies being inferior and full of nasty fluids [at least the bits I've read] stems from the Middle Ages. And according to my knowledge, the programmatic literature against women also came up then.
However, I do agree that there were quite a number of opportunities which women in the Middle Ages had which didn't exist prior to that.

Talking about the rise of Christianity and gender issues: I'm not saying that males had nothing to do with it, but as far as I remember [wish I had a reference here] women did play a far more active role than they had done previously and had a high status in the Christian subculture. And if I'm not mistaken, female Christians even outnumbered male Christians in late antiquity. But for some reason, the Catholic church only ever mentions martyrs and women like good old Hildegard...

Anyway, the whole point is: the article is clearly biased and facts aren't simply listed but there's a clear intention to refute the idea of a female pope - not really convincing IMHO, because a neutral attitude would have achieved so much more (at least for me).

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Thank you, I hope you will find these resources helpful and provocative.


"But the sad fact remains that all the stuff about women's bodies being inferior and full of nasty fluids [at least the bits I've read] stems from the Middle Ages."

Nope. Aristotle.


"But for some reason, the Catholic church only ever mentions martyrs and women like good old Hildegard... "

And Mother Teresa. And Dorothy Day, Mechtilde, Teresa of Avila, Simone Weil, Monica, Clare, Mary and Marian devotees...


"Anyway, the whole point is: the article is clearly biased and facts aren't simply listed but there's a clear intention to refute the idea of a female pope - not really convincing IMHO, because a neutral attitude would have achieved so much more (at least for me)."

Interestingly, I found the article detailed, thorough and very convincing. There was another post that included other resources you may find useful, http://pro.imdb.com/title/tt0458455/board/thread/32504920.

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The whole point seems to be that the Catholic Encyclopedia seems to be obviousely suspect of being subjective. But that's not the case, it is one of the most highly respected reference books among historians.

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AMDG

I got the same sense from Lottchen's response.

Maybe Snopes.com should tackle the myth of Pope Joan. These days, it has more credibility than the Catholic Encyclopedia. =P

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Maybe Snopes.com should tackle the myth of Pope Joan. These days, it has more credibility than the Catholic Encyclopedia.


Uh, no.

BOHICA America!

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