MovieChat Forums > Die Päpstin (2009) Discussion > Just saw it - and its absolutely awful

Just saw it - and its absolutely awful


I can't remember the last time I actually started a post here, but after reading all the excitement on the boards about Pope Joan here, I feel compelled to write something.

I have just seen this film a couple of hours ago at the Camerimage Film festival in Lodz Poland, and the pre-buzz was pretty big. The poster looked great, and people who had seen the trailer talked alot about it. Hell, the people at the door were even telling the audience to put down their laptops, cameras, phones etc as the security for the film not being filmed and landing on the internet was huge and a demand from the distributor. Well it made sense afterwards, because if anyone saw just a couple of minutes of this torture they would surely stay way.

I won't get into the story too much, lets just sum it up that this is a film set in the 800-eds about Joan, who has a huge crush on the bible and learning, and works her way up to become the only(possibly) female pope ever by disguising herself as a man.

That said and done, and sounding like a pretty good story for a movie, is about the only good thing there is here. First off, the writing.

The people who wrote this, some guy and the male director, obviously don't know much about women, more than how to spew out some kind of flat , one-dimensional portrayal - probably the way they see women in real life. The screenplay has "written by a man" all over it when it comes to the the female characters, and to be honest the male too, who pretty much all are black-or-white cut out cardboards. The father of Joan is a monster, the love interest sweeter than sugar, the conspirators very evil with bald patches of hair and deep voices, the mother a weakling, the pope a buffoon, etc etc. There is not a single nuanced character or performance in the entire film. NOT ONE. That said, just looking at the casting gives you slight Uwe Boll chills as the actors are all either well past their best-before date and misplaced (John Goodman), characters-clones from different films (Faramir) or just miscast (Joanna Wokalek, who was great in Baadeer Meinhof btw, is frickin 34 years old!!! Playing a 16 year old or thereabouts for about half of the movie!!)

Not that this film has any concerns with age and logic anyway. Both Joan and Faramir look exactly the same the whole film despite a great number of years passing by.

The dialogue is both horribly written and performed, and there doesn't seem to be any form of consensus by the makers to what "type" of english they should use (as the film is in english). Forget the whole Gladiator-thing where you didn't mind the actors speaking english because all the ingredients like writing and acting were good, here its all awful.

My biggest problem though was probably however the screenplay and the so-called writers just insulting the audience over and over. Logic definitely does not live here. Couple of examples;

A scholar comes to teach young Joans brother in the ways of reading and the bible. He has secretly been teaching Joan this as well, and she uses the moment to say a couple of phrases in latin and talks around them. The guy is stunned, and from this one minute conversation mutters deeply to himself -"I shall teach her", and then goes on to pretty much devoting his life to her, as that was enough time to separate real talent and genius from luck.

Joans younger brother is riding to a monastery through some deep woods. The rider is shot and the brother ends up on the ground. During nightfall Joan having walked all the way from her village, with a secret compass in her head and through mind reading that he is in danger, finds him there. Just awful.

Joan kisses Faramir at some obscure lake god knows where, and, of course, some evil cloister-munk is there to witness it.

It just goes on and on and is very bad writing. Also the camera and lighting is overly cheesy, the voice-over is a killer as it often tells the most obvious things.

Overall, the film looks, feels, and sounds cheap. Like something that needed much more money but didn't have it so every single shortcut available was taken, from actors, to pre-production, to costumes etc. In the end it wouldn't have mattered much with this screenplay and director, but it felt like an episode of Rome, just worse and cheaper.

It also didn't have much shame as it tried to rip off everything from Elizabeth to Braveheart (I actually shouted "Thats stolen from Braveheart!" at a scene where Faramir returns some dried flowers to Joan that he has saved through the years, by pure disgust-reflex) and if fails at every instant in lifting something good.

I could go on and on but won't waste the time. Its a 2/10 for me, and a weak 2 at that. Only reason its not a 1 is because I can actually think of a worse film I have seen this year, but this one is not far off.

Anyways, sorry to blow it all for you who have been waiting and seem excited, but if you are still going to see it, at least be prepared for an abomination. You won't feel cheated.

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thats a pretty thorough review thanks for that. eventhough im sure i'll end up giving it way more than 2/10, but you got some good explanations of the flaws in this movie so i'll believe you that its not as good as it seemed and the hype might suggest.

great... what else can i look forward to now?... im still interested in "valhalla rising" eventhough that movie apparently is not what you expect either, which could be good actually since i was expecting a grittier 300.

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I was kinda looking forward to it too, but I dear anyone to give it more than 4 out of than, and that would still be unbelievable for me. Anyway, you've been warned ;) Not that I didn't find some enjoyment in watching it though, but I'm a fan of watching really bad films.

Valhalla Rising might be really cool, and the director has done really good stuff in Denmark.

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Have you even read the book? it sounds pretty close to the novel to me, and for the people who loved the book, i'm sure they will love the movie aswell.

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That was an enjoyable rant, Filip. Now I actually want to see this trainwreck.

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It's a pity, that you don't like this movie, filip. For me, it was the best movie in the last years. Here in Germany, there were about 2,5 millions of audience. Many of them have watched this movie more times. I think, so many viewers can't have a bad taste. I have watched the movie 5 times.

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I don't know (or care) if it's close to the book or not, and the overall story is interesting. However, the way it is executed is shockingly bad.

If you liked it I suppose I'm happy for you, but the 600 or so that saw it at the Camerimage festival were laughing our socks off. We still use it as referencing here in film school, like "that student film was awful but at least it was better than Pope Joan". And we are not joking.

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Here in Germany, the movie is nominated for a bunch of awards. I can't understand this bad reaction at the Camerimage festival.

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Yeah, but here in Germany many mediocre movies get their nominations. There is no real competition. We just don't release every year ten "Das Leben der Anderen" or "Das weiße Band".

I have a personal lack of interest in costume movies, so I guess this is why I didn't pay much attention on costume design in this one. But in my opinion it seemd ok. Production design seemed also ok. And here we go again: no real competition. That's why this movie will get its nominations in Germany.
The acting was nothing stunning, the characters were very one-dimensional or had little screen time. I wouldn't blame the actors, rather the writers and the director. Jördis Triebel who played Johanna's mother got a nomination at the German Film Awards for Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role. In my opinion she was ok and she had very few screening time, but since she got a nomination I don't wanna know which actresses she bet to get hers.

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cinemanic222:

Kindly what did you find enjoyable to view it 5x?

Seriously?

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this film was very original and interesting for a change, religions nuts, fook off!

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Well, admittedly it was melodramaTICAL storytelling, and at times I did toss out an "oh, come on!", but it was still a good film.

The script and the occasional miscasting(John Goodman is a ham!) are where I put the blame in terms of weakness.

Having said that, I did enjoy watchiing it. I give it a 7/10 for the overall product.

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thank you. And I thought it was awful. What had the premise to be a rich tapestry of 9th century life - for both men and women - turned out to be a two-hour documentary on bad wigs and cliched characters.

Absolutely horrendous, more so, because it should have been so much more.

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Cringeworthy. Yuck. Imagine a cliche historical movie with terrible screenplay and that's what Pope Joan is.

It was nominated just for Costume Design and similar (at least according to imdb), but it didn't get any major awards. I wonder what the reviews were in Germany...

Btw, I really love historical movies and can tolerate a lot of weaknesses, but this movie was too much... No matter how interesting the story is, the execution is so poor that I think it's better to read about the person than to watch this movie.

6.6?! LOL

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[deleted]

Ok maybe this wasn't the best movie ever made but it sure wasn't awful.
I found the whole story and the ideas behind it pretty interesting.
Maybe 1 movie is just a little bit so short for a story like this, maybe a miniseries would have been better.
A few things I found a bit strange...the timeline. Following the time line Joan should have been much older at the end of the movie tham she actaully is at the end. She doesn't really seem to age.
The characters are a little bit one-dimensional.
I found the depiction of Rome really strange, it looks more like Jerusalem than Rome, very desert like..
Then Joan herself, she makes a few decisions that seem very strange and a bit unwise for a woman, but maybe that is the whole point.

But other than that really interesting, I never realised that a pope could have been a woman but thinking about it, why not?
Women probably have the qualities to be a pope, maybe more so than men...so it actaully is a disgrace that women still can't be popes..
This movie also got me thinking that the heathens mentioned in the movie actaully had better ideas about equality and life in general than the christians..

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You're obviously disappointed because you expected too much. Sure, the writing is cliche, but most of the scenes work and there's a natural flow to the script. It feels like an adventure and production design is top notch for such an inexpensive film. I enjoyed it quite a lot for what it is.

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