is the brother who plays ball in Greece. He kept Sebastian vision clear on what needed to be done.
Where was Stephon Marbury (cousin) in the development of Sebastian Telfair? There's got to be a story there as to the lack of his involvement that should have been explored by the producers/directors.
Any positive story that comes out of the projects of Coney Island is a great story and so is this film. Peace.
That is definetly the real hero of the flick. There is a whole back story that involves Marbury. The two do not get along to this day because when Marbury made it big he left Telfair's family out of the loop. Telfair has made this statement publicly.
shareYeah definitely would have liked to see Marbury. Just one thing. I also believe going to college would have benefited him. Big men can make that transition a whole lot better than a point guard. I also was bothered a bit by the comments Telfair would make when his coach would substitute him in the game for another player. "Why did you take me out?" "Put me back in!" What's up with that?
shareit's because Sebastian, like any great competitor, hates to sit. He wants to be out there no matter what, and can't stand to watch a game from the sidelines. I think that's a good thing for an athlete, not a bad one.
shareI understand that. I used to play the game. Fierce competitor or not sometimes you have to take a backseat to see the game from a different perspective. No one plays all the minutes in a game. He sat because of foul trouble. As I stated before, you sometimes need to see a different vantage point to understand your role in a game. That is something a timeout cannot always do!
shareyea..dis jus illustrates th competitive nature and fierce pride he posseses..besides that coach wuzz kind of annoyin. Never really relaxed thruout th whole film..
Think about Kobe, and why he made th jump..everyone was on him..but wut he do? he became one o th best playas in th history of th NBA
You say Kobe is one of the greatest in the history of the game? I'll give him his due but he could not hold the jockstrap of any of the 50 greatest NBA players. Check the list and get back to me.
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Kobe, Kobe, Kobe......maybe YOU are holding his jock. If you're that good then why is your team struggling to make the playoffs? Not to mention, Michael Jordan's comments on Kobe being the best in basketball....take it for what it's worth....Kobe is the best player in the now diluted NBA. The game has degenerated to a league if individuals...no team concept....the only teams that use the "team concept" are the Spurs and the Pistons....no one needs to score 81 points...didn't the Spurs and the Pistons meet in the NBA Finals? Nobody on the Lakers is happy....with Michael Jordan and the rest of the 49 great NBA players the will to win was a team concept. Michael or the rest of his 49 did not have to put up 81 points to narrowly win a ball game. The NBA right now is a joke....the home team wins over 90% of the time...very predictable. Once again, Kobe I give him his due...I can still smell the Similac in the air. He will eventually make the top 50, but part of being great is making the other players around you good...he is not doing that... Lamar Odom is crying....there is so much to Kobe's game that could never happen in the 70's or 80's....after his firt dunk Darryl Dawkins, Maurice Lucas or even Truck Robinson-some of the average players in the NBA of yesteryear-would make sure that his next dunk attempt would be sent flying---him too!
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Gotta agree, Kobe is this decade's Scottie Pippen(who is unfortunately on the top 50 list). Until he wins one by himself or at least goes deep in the playoffs Kobe is definitely not Mike.
shareThis is ridiculous. The reason Kobe's team wasn't as successful as Shaq's Heat squad was because Shaq had a better squad. Kobe didn't have anyone at the talent level of Dwayne Wade after the trade. Put anyone at the talent level of Dwayne Wade on any team with Kobe and watch them contend for a title. Lamar Odom is a very good player, but not nearly the talent level of Shaq or Wade. So don't blame the Lakers' woes on Kobe Bryant, because the fault lies with the GM Mitch Kupchak. He could have gotten much more for a Hall-of-Famer like Shaquille O'Neal than Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Then to turn around and trade Caron Butler for Kwame Brown... That ain't Kobe's fault, that's bad GMing. That being said, the Lakers still never became the laughing stock that say, the Knicks are now, and that's because of Kobe's inspired play. I'm from Chicago, so believe a lifelong Bulls fan when I say that Kobe's game is the closest we will ever see to MJ's. Lebron is like a mixture of Mike and Magic, but doesn't have the clutch factor or killer instinct that either one of them had, yet. It's unfair to compare players from different eras because of the rule changes and the evolution of physical training through the years. That being said, Kobe is better than or could hold his own against the following: Pete Maravich, Nate Archibald, Bob Cousy, Dave Cowens, Clyde Drexler, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton, Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek, Jerry West, the list goes on. The idea that no one needs to score 81 points is equally ridiculous. Wilt scored more, and Kobe's 81 point performance came in a close game. They needed his scoring to win the game. You play on a team with a guy named Smush (who starts), Kwame Brown, Chris friggin' Mihm, and tell me you wouldn't try to score eveyr point as well. Kobe needs to score because the rest of his team can't. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they are hands down the worst team in the league. Put Shaq on that team and they still don't make the playoffs. So back off of Kobe, he's only doing the best he can with the supporting cast he's been given. That's not to say that he's without faults. His personality seems alienating and having seen him play in person, his game and generally everything else about him seems phony. The only time I think he seemed to act genuinely was at this years All-Star game. Bottom line, Kobe's a top 50 player for sure. And remember, at the time the NBA put that list together, Shaq had done nothing to prove he belonged on that list.
share"This is ridiculous. The reason Kobe's team wasn't as successful as Shaq's Heat squad was because Shaq had a better squad. Kobe didn't have anyone at the talent level of Dwayne Wade after the trade." fmUoCoKk
Thats still no excuse for Kobe not to make the playoffs. Dwyane Wade took that exact same core to the Eastern Conference semifinals as a rookie! Yet Kobe took them to a 34-38 record :shakin my head:
"Put anyone at the talent level of Dwayne Wade on any team with Kobe and watch them contend for a title. Lamar Odom is a very good player, but not nearly the talent level of Shaq or Wade. So don't blame the Lakers' woes on Kobe Bryant, because the fault lies with the GM Mitch Kupchak. He could have gotten much more for a Hall-of-Famer like Shaquille O'Neal than Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Then to turn around and trade Caron Butler for Kwame Brown... That ain't Kobe's fault, that's bad GMing."
I agree. Kupchak and Isiah Thomas are the worst GMs in the NBA but Phil Jackson actually wanted another young, active Big man on the team to help absorb Personal fouls because Kobe's piss poor defense allows his man to penetrate into the lane at will.
"That being said, the Lakers still never became the laughing stock that say, the Knicks are now, and that's because of Kobe's inspired play. I'm from Chicago, so believe a lifelong Bulls fan when I say that Kobe's game is the closest we will ever see to MJ's."
" Wilt scored more, and Kobe's 81 point performance came in a close game. They needed his scoring to win the game. "
The game was close? I couldve sworn that it became a blow out. I guess Kobe lovers never noticed the lack of D that Toronto played in the last 7 or so minutes of the game. A 15 year old girl (no offense to female posters) couldve put up points in that game.
"You play on a team with a guy named Smush (who starts), Kwame Brown, Chris friggin' Mihm, and tell me you wouldn't try to score eveyr point as well. Kobe needs to score because the rest of his team can't."
LOL... Please stop, you're killing me with the idiocy in your post. Look her man, if you dont believe that the Lakers' can be successful without Kobe on the team, just let me know and I'll gladly prove to you how incorrect your analysis of the team is.
"Take Kobe off the Lakers and they are hands down the worst team in the league."
Take Kobe off the Lakers and they are a lot better than they are with him.
"Put Shaq on that team and they still don't make the playoffs."
Put Shaq on that team and they go to the Western Conference Finals.
The Lakers can be a lot better by minimizing the trash style of play of Bryant by taking away his minutes. Play Bryant no more than 30 minutes a game (non in the last 3 minutes of the game if it is close) and watch how the Lakers' improve.
Starting lineup should be -
Smush Parker
Devean George
Luke Walton
Lamar Odom
Chris Mihm
with (bench)
Kobe
Kwame Brown
Ronny Turiaf
Do you have kids? Please tell me you don't. To have such an idiot as a father would border on child abuse. Go turn yourself in if that's the case.
share"Do you have kids? Please tell me you don't. To have such an idiot as a father would border on child abuse. Go turn yourself in if that's the case."
No I dont but hopefully you dont. A degenerate such as yourself shouldnt be allowed to be responsible for anyone. *Thumbs down*
"During the Lakers third championship run, Kobe had to carry the team in the fourth quater of almost every game becaue, though his teammates were great, a lot of them were getting old by that time. Look at the lakers roster right now, and tell me what place they would be in without Kobe--I'll tell you, they would be in the cellar of the Western division. The fact that they are in 7th place is a testement to how good Kobe plays. " econ107ta
*sigh* More jibberish coming out of the mouth of Kobe fans.
I'll answer your question though. If Kobe wasnt on the team, the Lakers' (without Bryant's poor play) would probably be in the 6th spot in the Western Conference right now, maybe even 5th!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bryant is the reason that the Lakers' are barely holding on to a playoff spot (which they will lose by April) right now because his piss poor play during the game and his lack of clutch play down the stretch (another media myth that Kobe fans actually believe). I reiterate, Bryant has the skill and talent, probably one of the most skilled guards in the league, but his lack of basketball IQ, his WEAK defense, and his inability to produce in the clutch (yet he demands the ball in the clutch) is the reason that the Lakers' are struggling right now. Sit Kobe on the bench (where he belongs) and the Lakers' will flourish.
"You say Kobe is one of the greatest in the history of the game? I'll give him his due but he could not hold the jockstrap of any of the 50 greatest NBA players. Check the list and get back to me. " vprincejr
Excellent post VP. What the typical fan doesnt realize is that Bryant has a great amount of talent and skill but other than Bill Walton, Bryant may be the most overrated player in NBA history.
Yes he scored 81 points in a game this year. Yes he won 3 championships (Thanks to Shaq). But he is simply not a team player, he has no leadership skills, he doesnt make his teammates better.
If the average basketball fan ever played the game (not on playstation but on the court) then they would know how overrated a player Bryant really is. Lamar Odom is the most important player on the Lakers' team and if you dont believe me, watch Odom get hurt and watch how many games the Lakers' win.
I like your comments, mrright404, overrated is a good word to describe Kobe. I checked a stat on Kobe. When he scores 30 or more points in a game this season, the Lakers only win 57% of their games(24-18)!!! That says a lot. Kobe is just interested in Kobe. I bet you those Kobe fans are the same ones that if they play the game of basketball, they never pass the ball. They forget that a team is made up of five players, not one. The most spectacular shots and dunks don't mean a thing if you don't win. You might get on Sportscenter, but you will watching the playoffs on your TV in your living room!!!
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I really can't beleive how ridiculous all of you Kobe haters really are. You say if Kobe weren't on the team, the Lakers would be in the 5th spot for the playoffs, yet the Lakers lost--to the Jazz no less--both games that Kobe sat out this year. Lamar Odom is the most important player on the team--ha, ha, come on, don't kid yourself, Lamar is so stoned half the time that he forgets that a basketball game is even going on. Lamar is one of the most inconsistent players in the league, a lot of potential but completely inconsistent. In the next year or two, if Odom can put down the bong and develop consistency, the Lakers will really start to take off. Odom is the second best player on the team, so of course if he got injured the team would suffer. Name one team that doesn't suffer when one of their best starters goes down. It also says a lot about the team that Lamar is the second most talented player they have. "
Yeah, we all know that Odom likes the weed but despite that he is still the most important player on the Lakers' and he has more knowledge of the game than anyone of the whole team. Yes the Lakers lost in a back to back against the Jazz but what do you expect? That's the first time all season they had a chance to play TEAM ball so they had to make adjustments. Leave Kobe out of the lineup for 10 games and see what happens. It never fails.
Oh and by the way: The Lakers did come from behind to beat the Jazz in OT after Kobe fouled out back in December FYI ;-)
"That fact that mrnight beleives that Bill Walton was overrated proves he doesn't know anything about basketball. When Walton was healty he was a dominating force, in college he made something like 19 out of 20 shots in game. Not only did he lead his team to an NBA Championship, but when his legs were gone he still managed to win the 6th man of the year award--I'm sure he didn't deserve it though. Why would Larry Bird want an Old Walton on his team if he didn't beleive that he could bring some worth to the team. Instead of making bold statments why don't you explain why Bill Walton was overrated."
The fact that you think Kobe Bryant is comparable to Michael Jordan proves you know nothing about basketball. Walton was a GREAT COLLEGE player, he was a good NBA player, but Hall of Fame material? I dont think so. He only averaged 13.3 PPG for his career. 4 playoff appearances. 1 All star appearance. Yeah, that resume has Hall of Fame written all over it *sarcasm*
"It was also stated that Kobe doesn't make his teamates better, yet its not his fault if they can't hit open jumpers. If he got an assist for every open shot he provided his teammates then he would be averaging at least 8 assists a game. How do you not make your teammates better when you are always being double-teamed and provide open shots for your teammates??? "
Lol at that. Do you even watch the games? Kobe's lack of being patient within the offense is the main problem with the team right now. He freelances on O (by hijacking the offense and rushing shots) as well as on D (Always trying to pick up the cheap steal instead of guarding his man or getting in help position). It's kind of hard of Kobe's teammates to consistently knock down shots when 1) They arent warm because they can go for stretches (3 minutes or more) without even attempting a FG and 2) Continue to get the ball in uncompromising positions because Kobe tries to throw them a bailout pass(when a player leaves his feet then tries to pass - which is a basketball no no)
"Everyone loves Shaq and states that Kobe wasn't the difference maker in the Championship runs, but everyone forgets that Shaq couldn't even jump in the fourth quarter of their last Championship run. As I stated before, Kobe had to take over in the fourth quarter,when the game really counted, in each of the playoff series that year. Shaq was the dominant force in the first Championship, the entire team was firing on all cylinders in the second championship, and Kobe was the dominant force in the third championship. "
If it wasnt for Kobe sabotaging the team, the Lakers would have won 4 in 5 years. Shaq pretty much manhandled Ben Wallace yet Kobe was so inept about the game (or wanted to win MVP) that he wouldnt feed Shaq (who was 1 on 1 against Big Ben) the ball.
"So come on, give Kobe his due, he was a vital part of the Lakers championship teams. He made clutch shots in critical situations, and always played his hardest. Everyone gets down on Kobe as a selfish ball hog, yet he works as hard--and plays as hard--as any player in the leauge. How can he be so selfish if he gives everything he has every single night he plays. He never quits, and practices as hard as anyone. He has never waited until the season began to have surgery that couldn't have been handeled in the offseason, and has never spent a season thirty pounds over weight. "
I never said Bryant doesnt work hard or play hard but he plays STUPID and that is the worst a player can play because it handicaps teammates. The 3 myths surrounding the game of Bryant that the media and the average fan believes is...
1) Without Kobe on the court, the Lakers' will suffer
2) Kobe is a great defender
3) Kobe is a clutch player
Once fans realize that all of these are false, then they can give an objective (and truthful) analysis about Kobe.
"However, there is nothing that can be said to persuade ingnorant people towards truth. "
Your truth is fiction if you believe what you really posted here. I suggest that you turn sportscenter off, put the playstation down, and actually watch the games (the whole court not just who has the ball) and then you will see exactly what I am talking about
Hey did anyone happen to see a movie called "Through the Fire"? I was just curious because I thought this was the message board for that movie, but it's obviously a Kobe Bryant forum. My mistake.
shareYou know, bustmethat, you are absloutely right. smbentil started talking about Kobe and all hell broke loose.
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now back to the original topic..i think the real hero is daniel..u see how he kept his bro in check..
whats all that chocolate on ya face mutha f ukka??
chocolate??..thats doo doo baby!!
It was a combination of both of his brothers...Even his mother. Anyone who had a positive influence in his life and wasnt just there for the material gain.
Hopefully Telfair saved his money because I doubt he sticks around past his rookie contract. As long as he is in Portland, he'll always play behind Jarrett Jack and Steve Blake. Dajuan Wagner (another NY/NJ combo guard) had more talent than Bassy and he is out of the league now.
Wagner is only out of the league because he had his colon removed(he is working his way back) not because he was a bad player..Telfair has way more promise than wagner anyway..I'll admit wagner was a great combo guard in hs..A decent combo guard at memphis but when he hit the pros they really exploited his weaknesses(mainly bad shot selection u can easily find a shameless gunner..probably one with better defense 2)..Telfair has what any coach would want in a pg sick handle, enough quicks to break down defense,tremendous passing ability, maybe most of all confidence about himself..His jumper is a little suspect but so was lebrons hell even the early jordan(im not comparing him to them just an example)but extra overtime in the gym would help that out..As far as him staying around i dont think he would get a max offer after his contract is up but somebody would pay him better than a rookie contract to lead their team..Let us not forget he is only 20 yrs old..
I havent seen the dvd but just from the espn showing he did have a pretty good support system around him..I guess i am just a lil biased for Daniel because he seem like he was the one who gave it all up to look after his younger brothers
whats all that chocolate on ya face mutha f ukka??
chocolate??..thats doo doo baby!!
HIS MOTHER? What the ---- did she do? In order for her to be a Hero she'd have to A. get a ------- job. B.Get a -------------- education (see Alfred Agee's mom in HOOP DREAMS) C. Get the children who SHE is responsible to and for out of a dangerous situation. Parents are accountable to thier children. Children should not be not responsible for elevating the level of prosperity of thier parents. WHITE families typically don't exert pressure on thier children to help them out. They put pressure on themselves to do better for thier children. Yes I am black. Yes I am right. No you can't be supportive and lean on someone at the same time. If you stand, STAND STRONG! If you lean, call it what it is; getting rewarded for witnessing development of talent.
Even Joe Jackson was custodian of development of his sons. He took a active not passivr role in the creation of a sucessful enterprise. You may not want to hear it, I don't want to say it but it's the truth!
HIS MOTHER? What the ---- did she do?
First of all that his mother what do you mean what did she do..Who was the 1st person after every game Bassy would look for? "Wheres my mother" "Where Mommy"
His mother didnt even want to do the damn movie because she didnt want the same thing to happen to Sebastian that happened to his brother Jamel..Sje actually made the cameraman stay in the car until she got comfortable with it and Sebastian's father came out and told him he could come in..
In order for her to be a Hero she'd have to A. get a ------- job.
how do you know she didnt have a job? she could have been a minimun wage slave for all we know i dont think it said that in the movie..
B.Get a -------------- education(see Alfred Agee's mom in HOOP DREAMS)
Once again did it ever say that she was uneducated or are you placing the "i live in the projects because i dont have an education" stereotype..I think it's the latter..My mother and my g/f both graduated college..So what? Does that mean you are going to be successful? My moms ended up working at the hospital we didnt live in the projects but we stayed right down the street if you know what i mean..My g/f graduated in 3 and 1/2 yrs she works at a bridal shop cant even find a job in her field..Its not about what you know its who you know..
C. Get the children who SHE is responsible to and for out of a dangerous situation. Parents are accountable to thier children. Children should not be not responsible for elevating the level of prosperity of thier parents. WHITE families typically don't exert pressure on thier children to help them out. They put pressure on themselves to do better for thier children. Yes I am black. Yes I am right. No you can't be supportive and lean on someone at the same time. If you stand, STAND STRONG! If you lean, call it what it is; getting rewarded for witnessing development of talent.
Even Joe Jackson was custodian of development of his sons. He took a active not passivr role in the creation of a sucessful enterprise. You may not want to hear it, I don't want to say it but it's the truth!
What in the hell does race have to do with this movie..You may be black but you sure in hell aint right..You proved no facts just pointless opinions and then brought up the tired race card..Mr.Lorsi what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
whats all that chocolate on ya face mutha f ukka??
chocolate??..thats doo doo baby!!
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you caught that huh?? iwasnt watching it when i read that post it made me think of billys answer..I dont remeber the part you are talking about but i know when they were in greece that was the 1st time anybody had seen his bro Jamel play..Even if she didnt attend his games it doesnt mean anything
whats all that chocolate on ya face mutha f ukka??
chocolate??..thats doo doo baby!!
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the brother who plays ball in Greece. He kept Sebastian vision clear on what needed to be done.
I really hope Jamel gets another 10 day. Hopefully with the Clippers. If he had the sort support that he provided we'd be saluting a pair of Project bothers coming up and out of the mire. Sebastion will realize later that Talent alone isn't enough (Roy Hobbs). His brother taught him to work harder after you get to the mountain top. Ed O' Bannon showed us what complacency can do for a budding carrer.
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I actually remember his brother playing for providence with god shamgod at the point when i was a freshman is hs and thinking this dude is a beast(but back then i was probably saying tight!!)he has got to be a lock for the league..Its flucked up he didnt get his shot though he could probably do some at the least decent damage in the league..16ppg and 5 to 6rpg..
whats all that chocolate on ya face mutha f ukka??
chocolate??..thats doo doo baby!!
Jamel's a step slow for the NBA wing and a bit too short to play NBA underneath, that's why he didn't make the NBA. He doesn't have that lightning jet quickness that his brother Sebastian was born with (must've come from the dad's side), that quickness difference is the reason Bassy's making millions and his bro's playing in Europe (but still making nice change, btw).
shareIt's not so much that he was the real hero, as it was that he was the ONLY hero. The others came across as transparent little opportunists (especially the alleged "coach") who pretended to have noble motives but were clearly really just trying to figure out how they could cash in and use this NBA prodigy to benefit themselves. The 1 bro's the only guy in the documentary who didn't put off that vibe.
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