MovieChat Forums > El laberinto del fauno (2007) Discussion > This film is leftist propaganda

This film is leftist propaganda


The theme running throughout the entirety of this film is that the left-wing are good and honourable and the right-wing are evil and terrible.

I find it kinda sad that the director is unable to leave his personal opinions out of his films. What makes it even worse is he is Mexican, and not Spanish so none of the events he seems to have such a strong opinion on directly effected him or his family.

As far as I'm aware Pan's Labyrinth was not intended to be a political film and I find it rather pathetic how the director so blatantly tried to make it one.

If the film was actually ABOUT the Spanish Civil War I could forgive his strong display of opinion, but as the civil war is really only a side-line to the main plot it just seems he is desparate to display his own political agenda wherever he gets a chance.

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The bad guys were fascists... and fascists were bad. I don't think you're going to find too many people who disagree with that. Schindler's List was also anti-Nazi "propaganda." What's your point?

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[deleted]

What makes you think the communists were kind and peace loving? They brutally murdered people who got in their way like Franco did. They were inspired by evil men like Stalin and if they had have won the civil war are you really so naive you think they would have formed a peaceful democracy? No, Spain would have been a brutal communist dictatorship much like Eastern Europe and Russia at the time.

I'm not for a minute saying Franco and the nationalists were honourable or good people, but to suggest that the Communists were somehow better and more peaceful than the nationalists is stupid and a very inaccurate and misleading portrayal of them.

Also, to suggest Franco is 100% bad and that no one in Spain liked him, or likes him today is also wrong. Much of the foundations of modern Spain were laid by Franco as he reinstated the monarchy and founded the Spanish tourism industry which makes up a large part of the Spanish economy today.

As I said, I'm not suggesting this film should have portrayed the nationalists as being great people, but I think its wrong in the way it portrays the communists as being great people, as would-be saviours of Spain or as heros when if the communists had have won they would have most likely have formed a brutal communist dictatorship which would quite likely have stagnated Spain like it stagnated the Eastern European countries.

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I wish people would stop thinking that all the communists were all part of one single group, as if communists in Spain somehow had to be taking orders from Stalin or the Soviet Union. Most likely what would have happened if Franco had lost the civil war is that there would have been free elections and next a democratic regime.

This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.

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Where did I say the Spanish communists were taking orders from Stalin? You're putting words in my mouth. It is however no secret that the republicans in Spain were openly supported by the Soviet Union and there were even many Soviet volunteers fighting.

It may be worth mentioning that no conflict or struggle anywhere in the world between communists and the right-wing has produced free and fair elections. Take Russia, China, Vietnam, most of Eastern Europe, North Korea, Cambodia, etc. What makes Spain any different?

No matter how much Guillermo Del Toro tries to sugar-coat it, Communism as an ideology is just as authoritarian as fascism. Both ideologies are at the extreme ends of the political scale. History has proven this countless times.

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"as if communists in Spain somehow had to be taking orders from Stalin or the Soviet Union. "

They were. You know where the gold from spanish banks did go? They also had weaponry from Soviet Union and political comissars.

There were also big posters of Lenin and Stalin in areas where communists ruled.




"there would have been free elections and next a democratic regime. "

Just like in Russia after civil war? lol

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What you call the Spanish communists were in fact a group composed by communists, socialists, anarchists, etc. The idea that such a heterogenous group could take all its orders from the Soviet Union is laughable.

I don't really see what is so damning about the fact that there were posters of Lenin and Stalin in Spain. At the time they were considered symbols of freedom. I can understand that this may be difficult to appreciate, but once upon a time the Soviet Union represented the aspirations of millions for a better, fairer society. The fact that it was a disappointment in no way annuls the fact that the Spanish left wing was on the right side of the war and that it deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I'd really like to know when Franco was ever held as a standard of democracy and freedom.

This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.

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That is the most hypocritical thing I've ever read. Who doesn't see themselves as the good guys and on the side of a better society and justice and freedom and puppies? Were the fascists against those things?

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The fascists probably didn't present themselves, in their discourse, as being against a better society, justice, or even puppies. But against freedom they certainly where. Franco's regime was not called a dictatorship in vain.

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The Left in Spain was composed of a wide variety of groups ranging from centrists who supported a capitalist liberal democracy to socialist, marxists, communists, and anarcho-syndalists.

While the Left in Spain did receive substantial material support from the USSR, the actual manpower committed by the Soviet Union was dwarfed by that of volunteers from the international community which amounted to 35000 - 40000 people representing 52 nations.

The failings of the left in Spain during the war were largely due to intervention by the Comintern, who's rounding up and execution of potential enemies within the leftist coalition undermined cohesion, trust, and fighting power of the left.

It is impossible to judge the composition of the guerrillas depicted in Pan's Labyrinth, and judging by the presence of the Frenchman (who's leg is amputated in the film) they are more than likely not a group composed of hardcore communists, but probably a more centrist group continuing to oppose the fascism in Spain.

In short, when in doubt, always root against the fascists.

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the fascists overthrew a democratic government and killed thousands of people
wake up

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I understand that nowadays fascists get annoyed watching this film. Like we say in Spain: Ajo y agua.

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[deleted]

You couldn´t be any more ignorant.
I mean if you are going to drop judgments about history you should definitely do your research before making a fool of yourself.
In 1931 Spain finally managed to rebel against a king and a dictator that nobody chose. The latter, Primo de Rivera, had made his way to the government by means of the violence and the intimidation implemented by the fascist party. Spain was a country in which 99% of the people were peasants and yet 99% of the land belonged to the same few families to which they had belonged in the 1500's because of feudalism. That included the Catholic Church owning vasts portions of land. The Spanish people claimed their right to vote and choose. Are you saying that they shouldn´t be able to choose who to vote? They did, and they chose socialism, because they wanted a fair piece of the pie. Between 1931 and 1936 Spain lived under a democracy. People who were starving got bread to eat. Instead of spending on the military they spent on education, social programs and infrastructure. Their policies have been followed by numerous European countries, including Nordic countries and Germany even today. Nothing was like the Soviet Union like you say and there were no authoritative figures like Stalin. That is an ignorant generalization. In 1936, a group of military leaders who believe that everything that was going on in Spain was unpatriotic and unchristian decide that it is fair to kill a half million people to "liberate" the country. Of course they were evil and of course they are going to be portrayed as evil as they go against the liberties of the people and kill for that sake. If you expect to watch a Spanish Civil war movie in which they portray the Spanish military as good people keep waiting.
And giving credit to Franco for improving the Spanish economy is just utter rubbish. Between 1939 and 1960 Spain was still recovering from the war that Franco caused. Franco shut down Spain to any external influence. People would drink powdered milk coming from the U.S. and it wasn´t until he realized the importance of tourism in the 1960's that Spain started to recover economically. So no, he did not help Spain´s economy, he stopped the watch for 25 years. Most historians today claim that Spain would be as developed as France or Italy if none of that had happened.
Get your facts straight.

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Tell me this: If you're living under an oppressive fascist regime, who are you going to root for, the fascists or the commies? Personally, I'd choose the one that isn't oppressing me.

If this movie was a thoughtful analysis on who could build a better government, and they decided to portray the communists as heroes, then it might be a problem. But a movie that pits a dictatorship against a bunch of common folk who are simply trying any way possible to be free? Nah, come on. They may not be politically sound, but they're obviously the victims here, and they're just defending themselves as best they can.

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A fine POV wrinkledlion.....and one if you don`t mind me saying speaks for itself,if anyone who watches the movie and comes to a different conclusion,is lying about having watched it(properly)or......well need i explain?

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Were the fascists uncommon folk?

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I find it kinda sad that the director is unable to leave his personal opinions out of his films. What makes it even worse is he is Mexican, and not Spanish so none of the events he seems to have such a strong opinion on directly effected him or his family.


I find it kinda sad that you are unable to leave your political beliefs out of a very personal story of courage. The fact that the guerrillas were "reds" was very underplayed, even to the point of insignificance. If this was left-wing propaganda, you'd have seen the slogans and mantras that are almost mandatory in such left-wing media. The theme was not, as you claim, left-wing vs. right-wing; it was oppressed vs. oppressor, whatever their political affiliations may be (if they have any at all, like in the case of Ofelia herself).

You accuse del Toro of having strong political opinions, AND tell us that there is no reason why he should have strong political opinions on the matter, in the same paragraph. Hasn't it occurred to you that maybe he DOESN'T have strong political opinions on the matter? That maybe the characters' political affiliations were merely necessities dictated by the story's setting?

In interviews with del Toro (and even in the special features of the Pan's Labyrinth DVD), he makes it clear that he doesn't put his faith in institutions. He no more trusts a left-wing government than he does a right-wing one. His stories, and his ideals are personal. That is all.

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This film has no political motivation--there is no glorification of communism. The only message it is trying to convey is that people can be misled to doing evil because of pride--or "taking orders without question" to justify evil(Brought up twice: by the Doctor to Vidal, and also by Ofelia and the Faun).

Besides, the rebels kill all the prisoners or wounded, just like the Facists.




However, the facists were pretty terrible in real life. They were aided by the Nazis if that gives you any clue.

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kornology you know about Spain's history even less than the mexican director... Had Franco lost the war the stalemate between anarchists and various degrees of leftists would have forced to new elections... Actually Franco lead a revoltuion against social democracy that had won in a democratic Spain.

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Thank you for bringing some actual history to the table (if it's true idk). I believe knowledge and reasoning involving the truth removes the hate and negative opinions. Now that we know the "leftists" had intended for Franco to install a democracy we can Identify with them and understand their intentions weren't to install a communist government after the civil war.

Take your anti- troll potions and seal up your troll food. They feed on your rage.

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Way to go kush......the"leftist propaganda"gig belongs in the MacArthy era....why don`t you go back there ...you fossil

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Ok hopefully settling this, both Americans AND English men joined the Spanish rebellion's army, because the communist side wasn't as bad as a Fascist side. In fact, communists aren't bad, just communists that are trying to force their way of life on others are.

If you think that the Communists were the bad guys in the Spanish Civil War, you were either a supporter of the Fascists or an idiot

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The Spanish would be thankful every day that the fascists won.

If Spain had gone communist, they would have been invaded by Germany and Italy in 1940 or 1941. No doubt about it.

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You did just fine, Clarence. Now go git yo'self some hot cornbread!

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Wow Coleburg has the ability to see into alternate timelines!!!!

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Glad you found the words for that Tu....i was just bleeping speechless after reading THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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thanks for the support-attacking trolls since 1984

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If you made a movie about the horrors in Cuba, it would be "rightest propaganda."
Move over to Argentina, and it's "leftist propaganda."

Or maybe, your side has done some hoass *beep* and the other side has been the good guys in some instances.

Or maybe, sometimes, there are no sides, and what you claim as a side, isn't really a part of your side at all.

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Read Orwell's Homage To Catalonia.

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I find it kinda sad that the director is unable to leave his personal opinions out of his films.

His using his films to express his opinions. That's what art is. You know, self expression.

As far as I'm aware Pan's Labyrinth was not intended to be a political film and I find it rather pathetic how the director so blatantly tried to make it one.

It is a political film. It was meant to be a political film.

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facist!!

I bet you were on hitler's side too!!

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Yep, facist rascist who wants to kill 6 trillion Jews.

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Pagan, with a nickname of a "[country] over all" has no right to make the statement if something is a propaganda or not.
First, learn that there are zillion things above a country, and the first of them is life.
So take your dumb statements and carry them to your beloved state you put before anything else, like your life, the life of your kids, the love of God and knowledge and good, and keep them in a dark and locked place, as we here are stuffed with stupid yapping of people who don't know any better. You listen, kiddo, or you've gone away, maybe even away from your beloved country?

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