that was pretty mean at the end (spoilers)

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She's not the same person she was before her reincarnation though, in this life she's innocent.

it had to end that way, with the doll/girl being "together forever". these ghosts caused nagisa to kill herself (sorta), just like they did the first time around. if it didn't end with nagisa's fear causing her own death, it wouldn't be a continuation of the cycle.

She has the same soul. The soul that had killed and then commited suicide. Far from innocent, the reincarnated soul carries the imprint of past lives. Otherwise the reincarnated would have no hope of advancing...

In this movie, though, that is NOT the way reincarnation works. For this movie, your soul is your soul. You haven't lost your sins, you're the same person. It's up to your soul to try to atone for what has been done in a past life. Nagisa's soul was soiled by its past sins, and by everyone getting their revenge (the old lady included, because the father tried to kill her), her soul is getting to do that.

That's how I see it, anyway. So, no, I didn't feel sorry for her all, especially after she did that whole evil smile that pretty much proved that, yes, she is still the murderous father.

To me, even if the past sins thing is true, Nagisa Sugiura is still completely innocent. Even though she is the professor reincarnated, she possesses no memory of that life. She is an innocent who is being punished for the sins of somebody completely different from her, with the only things that they have in common is that they share the same soul and are Japanese. To clarify this point even more:

Person A kills a whole lot of people and then kills himself. Person B is born as Person A's reincarnation, but has nothing in common with Person A. Person B is punished for Person A's sins and is locked in an asylum where she is tortured by spirits, while Person A no longer exists (personality-wise, so asides from sharing the same soul, he's NOT the same person as Person B) and is not being punished because he's in oblivion. Thus Person B is a scapegoat/whipping boy for the sins of Person A simply because Person A no longer exists and Person B currently possesses Person A's soul.

Replace Person A with the professor/killer and replace Person B with Nagisa Sugira and you have my view on the matter. I'd hate to find out what would happen after Nagisa dies and is reborn as Person C, another completely different person. Is that person also going to be punished just like the now non-existent Nagisa (at the time of Person C's birth since she' still alive and thus still exists at the end of this film) was for the non-existent professor/killer sins as well?

Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger

Hi there. Sorry for giving a reply this late. But I have now finally the chance to talk here.

Since young, I was raised as a catholic and its beliefs, which are pretty much among the western doctrines of Judeochristianism. Look, maybe most of us here we were raised under a western doctrine, so I am not going to go too deep on it right now. But western religions are based around forgiveness and redemption.

Like if a person who was bad most of his life; and then at least at the end of it, that person recognizes all the evil he or she has done; the person would receive forgiveness and gain redemption and heaven.

Jesus Christ, who was a good person, had to pay for the sins of everyone in such a brutal way; that it makes me feel bad, and believe who did that to him, deserve no forgiveness, but still Jesus did. Sometimes I wonder why does religion have to focus on such brutallity, and almost omit that Jesus rose back from the dead. Heck, why does the simbol of Christianity is the instrument of execution of Jesus, and christians do it with their hands? Of course this is if the story of Jesus is real, and if it was, which version was the right one (the "just as planned one," the "father why have you forsaken me" or if it was someone else and also if that someone else was real, if Krishna or Horus)?

Now, like around 2007, I decided to take a deeper look on Buddhism. From what I understand of it, our time we pass as living creatures here it is very short, and despite we age, we will never change. Our souls remain the same ones, but somehow we are physically different according to our lives. And we need to break the reincarnation cycle to get to paradise.

OK, I am a bit rusty on buddhism right now; but lately, I have met someone who practices Falun Dafa.

Falun Dafa (or Gong) deals about doing some excersises to eliminate karma (which is the bad energy gained through life and previous ones, which are basically seen as "sins" from western religions), but also to behave in right ways.

However, FD is very controversial. As it is seen as a cult in China, having its practicioners tortured to death with the imply they are dangerous people; but breaking their human rights, and they are quite peaceful people. Though there are also the beliefs of the practice (they don't consider themselves as a relgion, much less cult), like that the founder of the group is the latest "master" like Jesus and Buddha (speaking of Sakayumi, according to him; he can't come back with us as he has broken the reincarnation cycle), and that other religions are fake, corrupted or outdated, even Buddhism.

While preaching tolerance, I find it odd that they don't see with good eyes other faiths, but still are tolernat to them.

Anyway, according to what I understand are the beliefs of Falun Dafa (which takes too much from Buddhism and Taoism oddly), we are here on Earth, this universe, this third dimension to pay for our sins (or karma), and learn to swallow bitterness, so we can ascend to higher dimensions and eventually reach heaven. This by doing the excersises and doing good deeds, but still bad things will happed due to our sins (karma) and personal demons, yet the carry-over won't be too heavy if you practice FD.

In life we have to recieve de (the contrary to karma) by good deeds and suffering. Yes, suffering; not exactly intentional suffering, but it seems that according to FD, you should not fight back. Heck, you are forbidden to kill even if it is in self-defense or in the defense of someone else.

De makes you break the cycle of reeincarnation and access the realm of gods and go back as "your true self."

But from what I see of this is "dur hur, suffer and I will get you something nice." And if this is how things actually are, then God is no different from the devil, as he basically is doing some kind of divine blackmail in which he won't get any repercussion.

Of course, that is if the ideals of Falun Dafa are real, and spirtuality and something after death are real to begin with. From my point of view, if God is like that, then it is not worth it. And I am not saying to "side with the other guy," as I would rather prefer to remain neutral.

OK, when I first saw the movie, I had yet to know of Buddhism and Falun Dafa, I did knew of reincarnation, but not as a punishment nor reward. I tought it would be about finding out what happened back then during the killings, and helping the victims gain peace and rest. But then what we all knew happened and got me very sad.

Honestly, she didn't deserve that. I was of those that believed that if reincarnation is real, and you were someone bad in the past, you get a fresh start. But it seems that even if you are reborn innocent, you still have to pay.

If I had been one of those ghosts, I would had immedialty suspended my revenge, and become the girl's protector specially if the other ghosts would had continued with their plans. Even if God would had wanted to punish her, and do something to me. Because I had seen she is a totally different person with hopes and dreams, and no way would I harm someone like that.

According to western religion, she would be forgiven and perhaps the evil doctor would be separated from her and burn in hell or be erased, so Sumire can continue being a good person.

But this movie went with asian waves of religion, and heaven help us this is how things actually go, as then none, not even God is innocent.

crimeofpassion, do you follow some asian religion? Also, if let's say a young innocent girl; is the reeincarnation of some ruthless murderer who died without paying his karma, and in a way to pay, the girl gets tortured, raped, flayed and amputated for pleasure, would you be OK with it? Even if it is your daughter. I did fell sorry for Nagisa.

Then there is also that saying that... "the blood of the innocents is delicious."

vicky_lc2001-1, if that is so then nihilism is right and no matter what we do makes no difference.

Zikten, I agree with you.