MovieChat Forums > The Hunting Party (2007) Discussion > Truth about Bosnia. Good read for Americ...

Truth about Bosnia. Good read for Americans.

posted 16 years ago by serbzero
76 replies | jump to latest

For the Americans:
Think about this. What if Catholics in United States decided that they are not Americans anymore, but Catholics, and they became a nation?!? Isn't that absurd? And what if those same Catholics started imposing their ways and religion onto other Americans, and asked for all the States where they are majority to become independent of United States? United Catholic States of America instead of Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky for example? Sounds little bit like your Civil War huh? And what followed the Civil War was a bloodshed... This was just an example, so don't get hung up on it.
This is exactly what happened in Bosnia. Read on...

Fact #1:
Muslim nation in Bosnia does not exist. The are just Serbians of Muslim faith. Their grandfathers took the Muslim religion some years ago, under pressure from Turks, and now they are a separate nation?!?!? They even speak SERBIAN! Why don't they speak MUSLIM or TURKISH? A communist leader Tito, some 30-40 years ago proclaimed all the Serbians of Muslim faith Muslims, and made them into a nation. No one can deny this.

Fact #2: Everyone committed war crimes. If someone raped your mother and then cut her head off, you would probably not hesitate to put a bullet though that guy's heart. The difference is how people kill, for example, Muslims brought their "brothers" from Arabic countries to help out in their holly war, and we all know how they treat Christians when they catch them. On the other hand, have you ever seen a beheaded Muslim victims on youtube killed by Christians (Serbs)? Certainly not.

See how complicated this is? That is why you Americans shell take all these movies with caution and not as educational material.

And yes, I am a Serbian myself, schooled in United States for past 10 years, I studied the history and media for many years. If you have anything smart to say, or put any arguments here, please do, but if you have racist or nationalistic comments, please go elsewhere.

Oh, and about the movie... this movie even without Nationalism, Racism, or good or bad guys, is just plain awful movie. Nothing gets resolved. The whole fox on the run theme is extremely stupid and unsatisfying, and three journalist catching a war criminal is just absurd. I'm glad movie flopped in the box office. For Hollywood producers this was a bad investment, but for the Muslim lobbyist in the U.S. who managed to make Serbs look like monsters again, it was a very good investment.

[–] esendp 16 years ago

I am a Croat, Catholic. I am not a big fun of Muslims, but I can tel you that this serbian guy wrote 99% bulls*** here.

serbs killed 8000 innocent people in just 2 weeks in Bosnia, and I guess this is their way to explain that. (his serbian propaganda story up here)

'400 years ago Turks killed serbians, so that gives us right to kill innocent Bosnian muslims today'... basically that's what he is saying.

When will serbs finally understand that they were the bad guys in the 1991 - 1995 war just like the nazis were in the Second World War?

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

notice, how the guy above did not reply to any of the facts I posted in the first place. He did not even try to refute the fact that Bosnian Muslims are really Serbs.

The whole point is for Americans and other nations to understand how complicated the situation is; it's not black and white, no good and bad guys, just shades of gray.

Croatian guy above me obviously can't read, because I said in the post, do not post any racist and nationalistic crap here. Give me the facts for a good argument. Administrator should erase the post since it contains no references to the movie itself.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

OH WOW, WIKIPEDIA!!!! AWESOME, THIS IS DEFINITELY RELEVANT! IDIOT.

[–] proteus122 11 years ago

Ah, another clown hitting on Wikipedia...that's rare.

Give it up, Wikipedia may not be "all that" but it does give a pretty accurate basic overview of a given subject. Or do you want us to get our masters in history before we can comment.

Idiot is right and you're him.

[–] nedimhaken 16 years ago

Bosnian muslims are mostly ethnic Croats. Because Bosnia was ruled by croats prior to Turkish arrival. I agree hollywood wasted their money on this movie. Fact is that Serbs destroyed every mosq that they have occupied. Keep Kosovo out of this debate, Kosovo is not a part of bosnian war.

[–] sas-76 16 years ago

peace!

[–] ajk718 16 years ago

serbzero, i am croatian too, but i do agree with you regarding the fact that the Muslims in Bosnia only became Muslim when the Ottoman Empire (Turks) invaded. No one can deny this, but according to your post, all of them were Serbs. I would have to disagree with you there. some of them were croats.

also, thank you for bringing up the fact that the whole Bosnia situation is extrememly complicated. I can never explain this to my American friends sinc eit is so hard to explain in the first place. i can't say i know everything either. i was born in new york and was only 5 when the war started in croatia so i'm probably somewhat ignorant regarding the topic as well especially since throguh my parents i have no connection to bosnia whatsoever. my parents are from the island of krk. howewever, my uncle's family was born in posusje in hercegovina althoygh he was born in metkovic and then returned to posusje when he was young. i visited his family once when i went to medugorje for a few days.

I would also like to say that as an american of croatian descent, i can't help but have some pro-croatia bias in regards to the war, but i too believe taht their are no good guys in this war. it was extremely filthy war in bosnia that ended with a forced peace agreement that really didn't fix anything at all.

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

ajk718,

thanks for the post man, it was good to hear someone agrees with the my attempt of a simple explanation. Yes, some of them are Croatians, but largest part were Serbs. Croatians generally do not give up their religion that easily.

[–] DeBoX 16 years ago

I wonder.....A short question needs to be asked....what do you have against Islam? Just curious...

I mean obviously your whole point seems to revolve more around religion then ethnicity.

A Serb is a Slav, is he not? Same as a Russian is a slav... I mean the name Yugoslavia....roughly translated means South slavs. Am I not correct?

So if we take that into account...the only really difference is national tag ( ie Serb, Croat, Bosniak) and religion....which in this case seem to be linked. (Croats mostly Catholic, etc)

My question about Islam comes from the fact that , well it's a religion, what one chooses to belive etc doesn’t change who he is ( when one speak of ethnicity). So an Irishman can choose to be a Protestant or a catholic , but he is still an Irishman.

Either way those were my question and my two cents.

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

I don't have anything against Islam.

What you said about Irishman is a great point and absolute truth, and it was exactly the point of the whole thing I wrote. Reread if needed.

Serbs were Orthodox. Some of them accepted Islam before 1900's. They were pronounced a nation in 1970's by a communist leader Tito. They stopped being Serbs and became Muslims. It's that simple. And now we fight over it...

Irish people still admit they are Irish. They don't claim that their nation is Catholic or Protestant.

[–] TwwIX 16 years ago

Who are you trying convince here Serbzero?
You people are really getting desperate these days,aren't ya?
Montenegro and Kosovo splitting,doesn't look good on the resume.
Gotta spread the propaganda everywhere and save some face while you can.
Holly War?What Holly War?
Your people were the ones who were doing the ethnic cleansing if i am not mistaken.
We all know who the aggressors were and who started the war.
It isn't just the opinion of Americans.
The entire world is aware of what your people did.
You are mistaken if you think that every American is as uneducated and unaware of world events as you think.You are just in denial,that's all.
Delusions of grandeur as they say.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] atli-5 16 years ago

==============================================================================
I am a Croat, Catholic. I am not a big fun of Muslims, but I can tel you that this serbian guy wrote 99% bulls*** here.
==============================================================================
An honest Catholic...

==============================================================================
serbs killed 8000 innocent people in just 2 weeks in Bosnia, and I guess this is their way to explain that. (his serbian propaganda story up here)
<...>
When will serbs finally understand that they were the bad guys in the 1991 - 1995 war just like the nazis were in the Second World War?
==============================================================================
Cruel serbs invaded peaceful croats who were actually pacifists...
The blind detestation usually lightens the following: an opponent is actuallly a ... and facts are diametrically opposite.

Bottomline, this film once again verified the existence of propaganda in the US. Propaganda of some keen geopolitical, geostrategical - or whatever you cal it - interest, which has nothing to deal with 'protection' of Croats or Muslims from 'nazi-like' Serbs. I recall an interview of a fired US Army officer who was meeting a congressman or a fed and the latter was constantly asking (they were flying on a helicopter): " Do these messy ruins result from that son-of-a-bitch Serbs war crimes" - "Nope, wait for a while, these are Serbian camps" - "Impossible!"...

A thoughtful person always tries to analyse both sides of a story.

P.S. Americans are so aggressive. And spend more than a half of the global military budget. Ain't for the good times, huh?

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

atli-5,

you're another idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about.
Serbs and Croats have nothing to do with this post. This post is about Bosnia and Muslims.

But if you really must be an uneducated moron, I must tell the world what happened in Croatia.

1. Half a million Serbs were literally kicked out of Croatia in 95 (and as that went on, they were killed and slaughtered on the way to Serbia).
2. It was the biggest Serbian exodus ever.
3. Croatia became ethnically the most clean nation in the world.
4. Because of piece of **** Croatia, Serbian economy is stagnating, since it didn't account for half a million people that instantly became homeless.
5. Croatia was and always will be a Nazi country.

And finally, Croatians, please stay of the post, this movie does not concern you. It mentions you in no way, so shut your mouth.

[–] thebunny 16 years ago

Here is some handiwork of Croats in Bosnia in 1990s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C5%A1va_Valley_ethnic_cleansing

And here's some more stuff done by Croats during WWII (real Christian-like, that lot):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac

And here's some Bosniak (Muslim) stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3JEh33ZZdw

And if you want some extreme Bosniak reality television, google for 'Rade Rogic video'. Shows Bosniaks beheading a Serb prisoner. I am not going to post it here as there may be minors on these boards.

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

What a hell are you talking about man? Are you on drugs? Just read what you wrote above, it's really confusing. If you wanted to help this thread you should have wrote in the way that Americans can understand. And thanks for all the nationalistic comments, really, those were "sweet".

There is one thing you're right about though. Croatians did not give up their Catholic religion as easy as some Serbs. So you did admit that some Serbs took Muslim faith. Now that I think about it, it works out great... it simply means that today's Muslims in Bosnia are DESCENDANTS OF COWARDS who gave up their Christian religion so they can have a better treatment. And now they are a proud Muslim nation (full of complexes) in the heart of Europe. Read some posts above and you will see that they are acknowledging this. They say "why do you kill your Muslim Serbian brothers"? Because they were making kebabs out of us, as you say above. Cannibals. We don't want to take your religion, or to become your food, lol.

And the argument of Englishmen, Welsh and Scotsmen is not valid. Welshmen speak a different language, and Muslims speak Serbian (not Turkish or Boshniak).
Difference between language Muslims and Serbs speak is like the difference between U.S. English in the Southern States and English in the North. It's that simple.

Once again, how absurd would it be if Catholics were a nation and not a religion... haha. Go school yourself some more.

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

Also, who made Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia? Who won in the First and Second World War? SERBIANS DID. That's right, we gave you those states. Admit it! You were on the Nazi side, Ustashe (muslim and croat nazis). That's right.

We gave you those territories, when in reality we should have made it into a GREAT SERBIA and punished you for your crimes against humanity.

Nothing but facts.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] blackhands 16 years ago

I shouldn't even honor this post with a reply but there are so many historical gaps that I would hate to think that a casual observer in this forum would breeze through here thinking that what is being said bears any resemblance to the truth at all.

First of all, much of what is today Balkan nationalism (this applying to Croats and Serbs) originates only from the late 19th century. Prior to that point, there existing a number of duchies, principalities and kingdoms, some of whom are now identified with being either Serbian or Croatian (the ancestors of modern nations) while the vast majority were composite states influenced by a variety of external influences and spending most of the middle ages fighting each others.

Much of what forms modern national identify has been retro-actively applied by modern nationalists as a rallying point. For example, many modern day Croatians identify with the checker-board crest which originated in the principality of Dalmatia - whos people were very different to what we consider Croatians today.

The modern 'Bosniak' identity was formed later than those of the modern Serb and Croatian identities. The Muslim-as-a-nationality principal was only first applied in the later half of the 20th century, with formal recognition withing Yugoslavia only coming in 1974. With retro-active history you today have a 'Bosniak' nation and national identity which has somehow been present for centuries.

It is just like how modern-day slavic Macedonians claim Alexander the Great to have been a fore-bearer of their nation, when in fact as with the Bosniak identity the Slavic-Macedonian national identity is also a product of Yugoslavia.

The primary driving factor here is that you essentially have a single ethnic block (slavs) with a single language who have been divided, split and conquered by many external forces (Catholicism/Austria-Hungry/Slovak identify/Fascism in the West of former Yugoslavia, Orthodoxy/Eastern Slavic identity in the Serbian parts and an Ottoman/Turkman/Arabic identity in Bosnia/Sandjak/Kosovo).

Any nationalistic claims made here must be taken with a grain of salt, as every side of this conflict had master propaganda arms and ideological leaders who peiced together a national fairytale to rally each of their own people. The claim of a restoration of a Greater Serbia is no more ludicrous than the Croatian claims (doctored by Tudjman) and the Bosniak claims (doctored by Izatbegovic). Excusing one of the sake of another is not acceptable - and that is where foreign intervention in the Balkans greatly failed.

No foreign intervention should have relied on crushing one nationalistic crusade and replacing it with two others. At the same time, no foreign intervention should have replaced what happen in Bosnia with what happen with Operation Storm in Krajina.

The failure here is that one side has been condemned and two others excused while they have all perpetrated the same crime. It is daft to pretend that not given a chance the Bosniaks and Croatians would not have committed what the Serbs did (and they proved so in '95). So this condemnation in exchange for excusing others works for nobody.

The sad fact is that we have not moved on from where we were in the late 80s and during the 90s. Here I am 13 years after the war has ended, and we have Serbs, Croats and Bosnians who are all educated enough to participate in an English-language forum basically committing the same mistakes that were made during the wars by blatantly repeating propaganda from the era (eg. Serbian role in WW1 and WW2, the national identity issue). If anything, that serves the best example of why there are problems in the Balkans and why we are so far away from any solution.

[–] bigrotman 16 years ago

Hey, its like our own little conflict in the forums. They day you all pull your head out of your arses and stop bitching over what faith and what you have done to each other, the better of the world would be.

[–] Mykamel-Izded 16 years ago

hm....

sadly, i have to agree with a large part of your post. the only thing i don't agree on are the sign of equality you draw between what serbs did in croatia and what the croatians did during the operation storm. from your post i drew the conclusion you are a serb by nationality and by citizenship, and that automatically handicaps you in judging what happened in croatia in the early 90s as you probably didn't live through the war, you probably only watched it on RTB.

it'd be very interesting to see the reaction of serbia if the croats in vojvodina suddenly decided that vojvodina was a part of croatia and started killing of every serb around. or even better, if the hungarians did so. on the bosnia and hercegovina story... i wouldn't like to comment. the muslims there (i don't really give a flying *beep* if they have a historical leg to stand on when they claim they're a nation) didn't deserve to be treated the way they were by both the croats and, in a greatly larger extent, the serbs. if bosnia and hercegovina existed all through yugoslavia and serbs, croats and muslims coexisted in peace, i really didn't and don't see the point of starting a series of bloodsheds just to create a country that will probably never be able to stand on it's own legs or exist as a normal and modern democracy without the "help" of the "west".

but, thank god that's all over. that *beep* was too *beep* bloody for such a group of tiny nations, especially if we take into account that those same nations lived together in, what i, as a child born in the late seventies in yugoslavia, perceived as peace and harmony, for decades in the same country.

p.s. as a reply to "serbzero" - ma prika, ti si budala i zbog takvih kakav si ti, normalne ekipe na ovim prostorima ima sve manje, a i ovi koji su ostali žive u strahu i mržnji. iju čovječe... usro sam se koliki si konj.

[–] overninethousand 15 years ago

"Also, who made Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia?"

Bosnians, Croatians and Slovenians. Only Slovenia was created in 1991, other countries existed in the past (just like, say, Serbia did).

"Who won in the First and Second World War? SERBIANS DID."

There was no sizable Partisan movement in Serbia until 1944. Tito himself was mostly a Croat and the certain Tudjman was a Partisan general.

Trivia: A large part of the Austro-Hungarian force which invaded Serbia in 1914 was made out of Croatian Serbs. (Another soldier in this army was Tito, who converted to communism in the Russian captivity.)

Actually it was the Americans who won the WWI by entering it. (Russia fell out early in 1917.)

"That's right, we gave you those states. Admit it! You were on the Nazi side, Ustashe (muslim and croat nazis). That's right."

And of course you forget the Serbian Nazis (Nedic's Serbia) and the Chetniks (who first fought against the Germans, and then collaborated).

"Nothing but facts. "

lol

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] basilshahid_2002 14 years ago

HAHAHA i mean ur the dumbest person i knw... just becoz they dont have a different language they can be killed right? they r serbs and they changed religion by force... tell me one thing when the serbs were growing in power again and they didnt have anything to fear from the turks why didnt they change religion again?
Without any proof u r saying tht everyone changed their religion becoz turks forced them to? HAHAHA u make me laugh... just bcoz sum1 changed their religion it is ok to kill them? just bcoz u dont have a language of ur own u r sumhow of lesser importance? u dont have any recognition and its alright to kill them? u knw half of the middle eastern countries have a single common language... i suppose only the saudis r fine and the rest of them should be murdered right? ANd enough of the AMERICAN BS man... not only Americans come on this board and read ur BS... u look like u wud love to get laid with every american guy in USA... and i knw u r a GUY :D

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

man you have no idea what you are talking about, you seem to make up the facts. Plus, your comments have nothing to do with the movie.

96 percent of Croatia wanted independence? What happened to 12% of Serbs that lived on your territory? There is 3% now, 200,000 were forced into exodus, many thousands were killed and now you have ethnically clean country without problems.

You're a genocidal nation, so God help you when the wrath comes in another 15-20 years.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] EmKai 16 years ago

serbzero,you truly are a ZERO. The guy just puked tons of serb propaganda.
For those interested here are some short facts.

1. Between 1992-1995 an agression against Bosnia and Herzegovina was conducted by Serbia and Serb paramilitary forces.

2. All non-Serb were killed, raped or expelled form Serb controlled territory.

3. The UN installed International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia
has issued senctences against Serb leaders from the crime of Genocide against Bosniaks in Bosnia.

4. In the list of ICTY convicted war criminals, over 93% are Serbs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ICTY_indictees

http://www.un.org/icty/cases-e/index-e.htm

5. In February 2007 the International Court of Justice (ICJ), found Serbia
GULITY for violating the obligation to prevent genocide, under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, violated its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide to transfer Ratko Mladić, indicted for genocide and complicity in genocide, for trial.

For those interested links about the Bosnian Genocide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide

The Genocide verdict against Serbia:

http://www.sense-agency.com/en/stream.php?sta=3&pid=9273&kat=3

The agression against Bosnia and Herzegovina:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

The Genocide in Srebrenica:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_Massacre

and

www.genocid.org

and concerning the movie, the "real" fox, Radovan Karadzic:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/karadzic/

So serbzero, crawl back to the propaganda hole of Joseph Goebbels, Leni Riefenstahl and the rest of the Fascist propaganda you belong to!

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

Oh my God, that joke you made about my "serbzero" nickname being a zero is soooo fresh! You totally took it out of context, that is so original. I envy your level of intelligence, that is just too witty, I can't handle it, I might need to go cry myself to sleep now.

And what's the point of putting up all the websites written by muslims? Oh, wait... half of that crap you put there is from Wikipedia. You must think people are stupid and they think that wikipedia is legitimate source? Give me a break. Everyone can post on Wikipedia. I should probably go there now and edit something myself and write bad about mulsims in bosnia and make it legitimate... you know, just because it's on wikipedia it's true.

And about fascism? Whose side you croats and muslims were in the second world war? that's right, german! Shut up.

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

uuuuuuuuu, ala sam seuplasio od tebe. Ustasho! Pushi ga!

Hrvata u krajini nije bi bilo pre rata. Zato idi obrazuj se glupane.

[–] bloodlust68 16 years ago

Serbzero - at the beginning of your post you wrote that you don`t want any nationalistic comments.Ok.Please would you be so polite and translate this sentence to our english speaking co readers so they can get a corect picture of you - cause if you not gonna translate it - i will.Period.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] EmKai 16 years ago

Neither did your propaganda have anything to do with the movie.

My comment was FACTS and NOTHING else.

As you know, in a democratic country, the MAJORITY DECIDES!!!

Croatia: 12% is NOT majority, 88% is!

Bosnia: 70% is majority, 30 is not!!

Montenegro: 56% is majority!

Kosovo: 90% is MAJORITY!!!!!

So read the facts, learn math (12<50)

and *beep* of mr Goebbels wannabee!

[–] DJ-Evolva 16 years ago

All of you just shut up. You got into war for stupidity and you got what you deserve.

You are stupid at the point of believing religion and seriously believe there is a god. You got into war for religious differences.

Now face the consequences of believe in something that doesnt exist.

Keep praying maybe it will solve your problems...

[–] Per_Vertex_0 13 years ago

All of you just shut up. You got into war for stupidity and you got what you deserve.

lol, you people are so funny.

It's obvious that you don't know *beep* about politics or history, but you see the words "war crimes" and "Muslim" in the same post, and you automatically conclude that OMG, RELIGION KILLZ!

That's like saying that the Archduke's assassination was THE only reason there was a World War.

[–] kejos12 16 years ago

The Croats wanted Bosnia-Herzegovina independent, right? What will you come up this time.. all croats are in fact serbian catholic hehe

To conclude, 2 nation (Muslim and Croatian) wants independent country and one (serbs) don't. Fact.

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

Ok, two posters above, you are too confusing. I really tried to understand what you are trying to say, but your English grammar sucks, so you might want to rewrite.

[–] kejos12 16 years ago

You said that Muslims are responsible for starting a war in Bosnia. I'm talking about plebiscit (referendum) in February 1992. Muslim and Croats voted for independent BiH, serb refused to accept result and war started.
If you can find what Badinter's commission said about war in Bosnia...?

[–] domagoj1973 16 years ago

My Serbian brother im sorry for every crime my countrymen did against your nation.May God forgive them.

God bless you and dont forget innocent Serbian victims of Croatian genocide.

Independent State of Croatia

The Independent State of Croatia (Nezavisna Država Hrvatska, NDH) was a fascist/nazi puppet-state [1] [2] during World War II. It was established in April 1941, after the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was split up by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. Geographically it encompassed most of modern-day Croatia as well as all of Bosnia and Herzegovina and parts of Slovenia and Serbia.

The NDH was ruled by Ante Pavelić and his Ustaša — a racist, terrorist and saboteur organization [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] — which were followers of the Pure Party of Rights founded by Ante Starčević at the end of 19th century.[9] The NDH had a program, formulated by Mile Budak, to purge Croatia of Serbs, by “killing one third, expelling the other third and assimilating the remaining third”. The first part of this programme was begun during WWII by a planned genocide in Jasenovac and other places all over NDH.[10]

Tough Far-right movements inspired by the former NDH reemerged in the war years in Croatia, the current Constitution of the country does not recognize the Independent State of Croatia as the historical or legitimate predecessor state of the current Croatian republic.[1

Population

According to the data presented by former Austro-Hungarian officer Hefner, the population of the Independent State of Croatia numbered 6,042,000 people (data from 1941-04-23), including:

* Croats = 3,069,000 (50.78%)
* Serbs = 1,847,000 (30.65%)
* Muslims = 717,000 (11.86%)
* others = 410,000 (6.80%), of whom:
o Germans = 150,000
o Hungarians = 75,000
o Slovaks and Czechs= 65,000
o Jews = 40,000
o Slovenians = 37,000
o Italians = 5,000

There is around 40 000 Sebs living in Croatia today .

[–] domagoj1973 16 years ago

Who started the war?

The Muslim President, Alija Izetbegovic, stated he would sacrifice peace for independence. He was part of a Muslim youth movement in WWII Bosnia as a teen, and they had some connections with the fascist Croats (Ustashi).

Funny you should bring up the Nazis, when they supported the Bosnian Muslims during WWII. Islamofascism was very much used by the Germans.

The Bosnian Muslims had the Handzar (also spelled Handjar and other variations) division (created by the Germans) and they killed Bosnian Jews and Serbs.

The Muslims were a special project of the Nazi Himmler. He knew their religion made them especially self-sacrificial during wars. Many Muslims also joined the Ustasha with the Croats. They were called "flowers of the Croats."

Izetbegovic published a book in the early 1970's, called "The Islamic Declaration" about how Muslims couldn't coexist peacefully with others. Here's a quote from his book: "... the Islamic movement should and must start taking over the power as soon as it is morally and numerically strong enough to not only overthrow the existing non-Islamic, but also to build up a new Islamic authority. ..."
p. 43

He was jailed in the early 1980's, along with several other Muslims, for "anti-Yugoslav" activities. He served several years in jail, but once out rose to be the head of the party which was in power for a few years before the war started.

He sidelined the more popular and true moderate Muslim Fikret Abdic. If you really did any research worth your salt, you'd offhand know something about Fikret Abdic.

Check out this link for a briefing about Alija Izetbegovic: http://www.hvk.org/articles/0802/0.html
He was no moderate as the mainstream media and western governments presented him as.

I'll bet you've never read any good books on or know much about the Handzar division. The Germans kept detailed reports and were often disappointed by the Bosnian Muslim allies who mainly killed civilians and were poor fighting against military opposition.

[–] domagoj1973 16 years ago

Who are the bad guys?

"Video “Radical Islam drowing in Europe 1992-1995 Bosnia”
Posted by cd under Religion , Politics , Videos

Comments from the original video poster

EL MUDJAHIDIN contains original video footage of persons belonging to this squad and fighting on the side of the so called Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina. An army which Muslims (Another-words Bosnian politicians) introduce to the world as the ONLY army fighting for the unity of Bosnia and Herzegovina, for the good of all ethnic backgrounds residing there, and presenting their people (Bosnian Muslims) as the ONLY constitutional people in Bosnia and Herzegovina. However, judge for yourselves how true these claims are……..

You are also able to view a huge presence of Mudjahidins from Islamic countries belonging to Al’ Qaide who, as is well known, committed atrocious war crimes against Serbs and other non Islamic people in BiH. Keep in mind that those Mudjahidins were and STILL are protected by the Bosnian (Muslim) political leaders. "

[–] don_vedro-1 16 years ago

first thing serbzero talks a lot of crap and it is obvious he lives in the USA, that explains a lot. The fact we are pathetic because we betrayed our serbian inheritance is crap. It isn't even clear what king od people we are and to start *beep* around, 2000 years ago we all were called Ilyrians, what the *beep* happened to Serbs betraying Ilyrian tribes. What about the fact we descent from Russians, because of the fact Slavs from Russia moved to our region of the Dinaric Alpes, making ous Southern Slavs (Yugoslavs) but still, Slavic people.
If you listen to Einstein that everything is relative you would see a point in my opinion, if not you lack of intelligence and the schools you've attendeded in the USA mean nothing.
Well to be a nice guy I'll explain my point; What point can you see as the start? Serbia? Yugoslavia? Ilyrians? Northern Slavs? Some even say the people with dark hair in ex-Yugoslavia descend from Persians (weird sh*t if you ask me). Another thing is that you can't know what 'race' or group or whatever you are, because you don't have an idea who your ancestor f*cked 500 years ago. Recent studies showed that 30% of American WASP's actually isn't a WASP but has Indian, African or European ancestors.

Not to forget I agree with the comment posted above.

[–] rafaelo4 15 years ago

You known Albert Einstein wife was Serbian? (truth)

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] syphlect 16 years ago

Ok, so you're saying that you know how everything went down right? samo posto si ucijo historiju jelde? eh nije to tako lahko. You can't say how it all went because no one knows how it went, of course you will defend your country just like everyone else. But everyone has their own opinion on the war and no one can say what went right and what went wrong.

[–] realrockyboy 16 years ago

Let me end this...

Few years ago some nerds started the war, for whatever reason, religion/wealth/land whatever, so two sides for nerds fighting this war, both sides, people were killed, for fun or whatever reason; women were raped, for pleasure obviously; house were burned, maybe for fun as well...
Both sides claim to be justice, claim to be righteous, and continue to wet their hands with blood, while the blood from their last victim is drying. Untill one side complete dominate the other, the so called justice shall never be found.

Same ol' same ol', just another page in the 2000-years of Euro history, or another page in the 5000-years of Asian history. With different causes, and different excuses.

Whatever you nerds doing, stay the hell away from my country, don't ever let your minds poison my kids.

[–] domagoj1973 16 years ago

Well dude,seems like your old country is the most poisonous one and keeps organizing wars everywhere around .....so you better stay away from our countries...please we dont want any wars but your government........

[–] serbzero 16 years ago

EXCELLENT POINT DUDE!
If United States could only be like they were in 40s and 50s.... it used stand for peace and now it's on a way to become and evil empire... I don't think it's too late, maybe things can still change...

[–] realrockyboy 16 years ago

Who says anything about US???
I am in Canada...

I hate what US is doing as well as most people, they're too much into their own empire and breaking the world's balance.

And please don't evade the topic here, let's not bull anyone, how you guys plan to end your "civil war", if US never get involved?
Wait for the Muslims to hunt down everyone agaisnt them? or wait till your Catholics send all Muslims to concentration camps?

US didn't get into that with any good intentions, but they do accelerate the war to an exit, leading the reasult to their favor of course.

[–] domagoj1973 16 years ago

Wow,rockyboy,there is no difference between Canada and US and Great Britain and Australia ,you are the same and you all together invented the genocide and exterminated the natives all around the globe.

P.S. I'm sorry if you are French and what i said was necver conected with French people and they deserve to separate from English domination in your Canada,dude