MovieChat Forums > Inside Man (2006) Discussion > Ok I'm stupid, someone please explain it...

Ok I'm stupid, someone please explain it all to me


I'm normally the kind of person who understands all the convoluted plot points of movies that others don't. So I don't mind if y'all call me stupid. I've seen this movie on cable two or three times and I still don't understand all the stuff at the end. Why does the head robber steal the ring then leave the ring in the box for Denzel? How did he know about it in the first place? What's the deal with Denzel showing the ring to Plummer in his office then again at lunch with Jodie?

What I'm really confused about was the motive for the whole thing. Did Clive Owen do the whole thing just to expose Plummer? But in the end, Denzel keeps the secret and takes his promotion, right? So what was the point? Or Clive Owen knew about the diamond and wanted to steal it, but sees the Nazi paper and figures he'll turn the diamond over to Denzel to expose Plummer, except that by the end, Denzel is basically on Plummer's hush-money payroll. Or does Denzel expose Plummer in the end? I swear I can not make heads or tails of any of it.

Can someone please just lay this thing out for me like I'm a blithering idiot? Speak real slowly. Because I've been a "smart guy" all my life and I usually spend my time on message boards explaining stuff to other people, and I do not *beep* understand the last 20 minutes of this movie. At all.

Thank you for anyone who can just lay this thing out for me.

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For starters, the lock box had nazi papers, ring in box and a bunch of black baggies with diamonds. The prize the bank robbers got were those diamonds. The papers are insurance, the ring in the box is to expose plummer.

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Right, got those points. But the ring in the box ends up on Denzel's girlfriend's finger. (And how does she explain that to her friends? My cop boyfriend got me a 50 million dollar ring?) How does the robber know to go straight to that box? Why does Denzel bother to tell Plummer he knows about Plummer's Nazi past if he's just going to keep the ring anyway? In the end, Plummer's not exposed. So what's all the talk about morality or respect being the highest form of currency?

(edit) Ok just watched the ending again. He doesn't keep the ring. The robber put a different diamond in Denzel's pocket. Ok. But he showed the ring to Jodie and the mayor and gave her the number of the War Crimes Commission as if she's going to do something with that info. But she already knows about Plummer's Nazi past.

I think I actually understand what there is to understand about this movie. There are no missing plot points. The robber gets the diamonds, Plummer keeps his secret, Jodie gets paid, Denzel has a nice ring for his girlfriend. A bunch of cute scenes that add up to nothing.

And how come the day after Denzel accepts his promotion in order to play ball, they find the money he allegedly stole? Someone set him up for that in the past knowing he'd be in charge of the bank heist? Whatever.

(another edit). Right. Here's the problem. If Owens keeps the paper as a safety in case he's ever brought to trial ... why leave the ring so that Denzel can expose Plummer, thereby making the paper useless? The two actions, keeping the paper and leaving the ring, are mutually contradictory. It makes no sense, even if you suspend your disbelief about the fact that Owens knows about the box in the first place. Happy to get any clarification on this point. And again, that lunch with Jodie and the mayor. She already knows about Plummer's past and doesn't care. If you clipped the last 15 minutes of this movie and replaced it with a Road Runner cartoon, nothing would be lost. That's a problem.

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The only way it makes sense is if Owens is happy with the diamonds that he has and really wants plummer to get what he deserves, he would not care at that point about the possible loss of money from the big diamond or the ransom for the nazi papers

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Analyze it all you want, it makes no sense from beginning to end:
- Clive and his obviously expert gang somehow have no criminal/military record to draw suspicion (absurd).
- Someone evil/smart enough to make it to Case's position keeps around incriminating evidence for no focking good reason (his "guilt" seems forced and unbelievable for if he truly wanted to be caught why hire White to protect the contents of the box then?) for the sole purpose of having someone else try to uncover it and then for him to try to stop him simply makes no sense.
- The diamond ring cannot be used as leverage (only wedding bands usually have someone's name and date engraved on them). If it did, makes no sense to give it to Frazier (who cannot use it for leverage and ultimately gives away to his girl). If it cannot indeed, it would be a trophy/memento and thus understandable Case kept it around. Yet since Clive and his gang were hired by a Jewish survivor or relative, such a family/valuable ring would never be left behind just like that.
- White is somehow morally repulsed by Case's nazi past, but not enough to take his money, and definitely doesn't mind Bin Laden's 911 role to help his family secure real estate right there in NYC. Absurd.
- White serves absolutely no real purpose a phone couldn't serve (what exactly did she do besides taking messages from here to there? Frazier's career promotion was the mayor's doing not her, she herself has no real power except her legs)
- The only character who makes sense is Frazier (trie to do the right thing, knows when to bend and play along if the fight is just not worth it, doesn't like being played)

I only got through watching this due to Denzel, he can make almost anything work.

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- Everyone in the bank was interviewed. I'm quite sure some of the hostages had criminal records. Even if the robbers had them too, the detectives would have multiple people to be suspicious of, evidenced by their suspect questioning of the hostages.

- The incriminating evidence was in a safety deposit box that was not listed, therefore to the eyes of everyone did not exist. For someone to know, it must have taken an "inside man" of Arthur Case's business/personal life. Dalton Russell may likely be someone closer to Case than is told in the film.

- Ms. White is a power broker with specific talents. High-priced for her skills, any morality she exhibits is false in black-and-white terms. In shades of grey, she can lack true moral values but object to the Holocaust, something she could not be financially motivated to join in.

- The U.S. government were repulsed by 9/11 yet flew the Bin Laden family out of the U.S. for their protection 8 days after 9/11. The Bin Laden family are from Saudi Arabia (an alley of the U.S. despite their terrible record), and the family are wealthy controllers of the Saudi Binladin Group. They are the "old money" of the Arab world dating back to Osama Bin Laden's father (1909-1967).

- The Bin Laden family were not part of any of Osama Bin Laden's terrorist activities.

What goes around (), Comes around ()

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Oh, for crying out loud... First the super-long analysis in the FAQ and now this.. SHE WAS MAKING A JOKE about the Bin Laden thing! It was gallows humor, comparing how big a monster he is to Bin Laden. Come on...

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I replied a long time ago to someone else. If you don't like analysis and FAQs, don't read them or respond to them, and certainly don't waste my time with things you don't like because they mean absolutely nothing to me. Now move it along.

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Just to be clear, Dalton doesn't want ransom. Madeline is the one who brings up that possibility. Dalton (who says exactly what he means and never repeats himself) only says that he wants to give Arthur the documents in exchange for Arthur getting him off the hook if he gets caught.

And no, he doesn't care about the ring money. The big diamond ring appears to be famous and would probably be difficult to sell anyway. And the ring is what he promised to deliver to Chaim in exchange for whatever payment they agreed on. All Chaim wanted to do with it is use it to expose Arthur, and Dalton finds a way to do that via Frazier (who finds a way to do that via Madeline.)

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The diamond Owen slips into Denzel's pocket when leaving the bank is the one on his GF's finger....War Crimes in Washington is called about the big Cartier Ring-and it's left up to us to decide on whether it is returned to the original owner

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Also-that safety deposit box didn't exist..the bank said nothing was stolen-Owens character kept the Nazi paperwork as insurance in case someone decided a crime actually was committed-that was a lot of diamonds they took-
Case knew from jump what they were after-Ms.White,Fosters character was told to get the box or make it disappear -when Owens character gets picked up,the first question out of the Jewish diamond expert is"Where is the ring!?"Owens says"I left it in good hands"-so,I'd like to think the war crimes agency was called and they"followed the ring".....it's a MOVIE-

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Owen's characters drops one of the diamonds from the bag into Frazier's pocket, not the ring. Especially since Frazier had commented earlier to him about trying to get a diamond ring. So, now on the DL, he can get a ring made.

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I'm not sure Case knew from the jump. I think he thought it was a standard bank robbery but that the robbers might raid the safe deposit boxes while they were there. And even if they didn't, the police might insist on inspecting all the boxes after the robbery. He just wanted his stuff out of there before anyone discovered it. He says as much to Madeline in their first meeting.

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But the ring in the box ends up on Denzel's girlfriend's finger.


No it didn't.

The Ring ends up with Jodie Foster/Ms. White and the Mayor with a Phone number for a War Crimes Tribunal.

at the end Denzel/Frazier finds a Single cut diamond, unset, in his pocket... as placed there by Dalton/Clive when they bumped while Dalton Left, and Frazier was going back to check the Safe deposit box

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Just some clarification on the extra questions you bring up:

But the ring in the box ends up on Denzel's girlfriend's finger.

--Okay, you've already posted that you re-watched that scene and realized the diamond in Frazier's pocket is not the ring in the box. Just for extra clarification: Frazier doesn't leave the ring with Madeline and the mayor. He takes it with him back to the evidence room (it's logged in as evidence already). He simply brought it to lunch to show it to them and give them the number to call to report Arthur.

How does the robber know to go straight to that box?

--Three possibilities: Chaim got inside information, or they looked at the bank logs, or -- least likely -- they left out the scenes of all the other boxes they tried.

Why does Denzel bother to tell Plummer he knows about Plummer's Nazi past if he's just going to keep the ring anyway?

--Frazier doesn't tell Arthur that. At no point in the movie does Frazier learn about Arthur's Nazi past. All he knows is that the ring is connected to Arthur, and Madeline told him that Arthur made money during wartime. Frazier takes it Arthur to try to get him to confess.

In the end, Plummer's not exposed. So what's all the talk about morality or respect being the highest form of currency?

--Actually, Madeline agrees to expose him. That's what she meant by "How would you like to be on the front page of the New York Times?"

But he showed the ring to Jodie and the mayor and gave her the number of the War Crimes Commission as if she's going to do something with that info. But she already knows about Plummer's Nazi past.

--Madeline learned about Arthur's Nazi past from Dalton, who showed her the document. She doesn't know what else -- if anything else -- is in the box. After the robbery when she finds out that nothing was stolen, and that's when she guesses that diamonds were in the box and that's what was taken. But she still doesn't know about the ring until Arthur tells her. When he tells her, she assumes the robbers took it along with the diamonds. And Dalton said he'd only use the document to give back to Arthur in exchange for Arthur's protection in case Dalton were caught. So what can Madeline do? She thinks everything in the box is gone. No one can find the robbers. Is she really going to report that Arthur is a Nazi? She has zero evidence. When Frazier shows her the ring, that's the first indication that there is still evidence that links him to war crimes. And Frazier doesn't know what the crimes were -- he only knows that Arthur did something during the war. So he knows what phone number to give Madeline.

I think I actually understand what there is to understand about this movie. There are no missing plot points. The robber gets the diamonds, Plummer keeps his secret, Jodie gets paid, Denzel has a nice ring for his girlfriend. A bunch of cute scenes that add up to nothing.

--Arthur doesn't get to keep his secret, so it does add up to something.

And how come the day after Denzel accepts his promotion in order to play ball, they find the money he allegedly stole?

--Madeline made that happen via the mayor. They made the promotion happen and they concocted some story to "find" the money. But he got both those things because he recorded Madeline and the mayor trying to bribe/blackmail him. If they hadn't made those things happen, he could use the recording against them. He's not playing ball. Playing ball would mean burying the bank heist case as he was told to do (via Madeline, through the mayor, down through his boss). Frazier knew he was innocent of stealing the money, knew he deserved the promotion, and knew yet another shady inside protection racket thing was going on with the safe deposit box. So instead of playing ball, he solves the case.

Someone set him up for that in the past knowing he'd be in charge of the bank heist? Whatever.

--No, what happened was that there was a drug bust and the rest of the cops on the case stole the $140,000. Frazier wouldn't play along (when he first meets Madeline in the car, she says, "that wouldn't have happened if you'd been more diplomatic") so when he reported the money missing the other cops pinned it on him.

--If some other cop had been in charge of the bank heist (that guy who was on vacation) he would've just cooperated with Madeline and the mayor because that's how those cops do business. At most, Madeline would've bribed him and he would've given her access.

(another edit). Right. Here's the problem. If Owens keeps the paper as a safety in case he's ever brought to trial ... why leave the ring so that Denzel can expose Plummer, thereby making the paper useless? The two actions, keeping the paper and leaving the ring, are mutually contradictory.

--Chaim and the others know about the ring. Getting the ring and exposing Arthur is the whole point of the heist for them. It isn't clear how the diamonds will be distributed. Obviously, Dalton will be paid with at least some of them. But the others might also take a cut, or might get them back to Holocaust survivors.

--Dalton might assume (or hope) that if Arthur Case is exposed as a war criminal via the ring, the bank heist stuff will be forgotten and buried. The document is insurance in case their plan to expose Case with the ring fails. Or, more precisely, in case Arthur isn't exposed AND Dalton is caught.

--I don't think anyone expected the paper to be there. It's weird and perhaps a little flimsy that Arthur kept it. But given Arthur's overwhelming sense of guilt, perhaps he kept it as a record of the ring transactions so that it could all be made right after he died. When Dalton finds the paper, only he and his girlfriend see it. If Dalton is a hired hand, it makes sense for him to keep this paper as his own insurance policy. If he gets caught, he says, he'll bring it to Arthur in exchange for Arthur pulling strings to make sure Dalton goes free. Dalton doesn't need to tell Chaim or the others about the paper. It's his private insurance policy.

And again, that lunch with Jodie and the mayor. She already knows about Plummer's past and doesn't care.

--She seems to care, but as I wrote above, she has no evidence. She's also a businesswoman, so as another commenter wrote, her ethics are in shades of gray. She questioned Bin Laden's nephew and obviously made sure he was innocent before agreeing to help him buy a co-op. When she accepted the job from Arthur, she didn't know he had ties with Nazis. After she learned that, there was nothing she could do. She did seem to take pleasure in collecting her bill and telling him he had to be a reference -- you can see a whole future of her bossing him around because of what she knows about him. And she seems to enjoy telling him that if the robbers use the ring or document to blackmail him, he'll pay. But without evidence, she can't do more. Frazier showed her the evidence.

If you clipped the last 15 minutes of this movie and replaced it with a Road Runner cartoon, nothing would be lost. That's a problem.

--Although obviously I disagree with you about this particular movie, I need to give you mad props for the most hilarious and best sentence ever written. I'm totally sharing it with my friends. And stealing it to use as my own joke in front of new acquaintances. You are awesome and I love how much thought you've put into this movie. I had to rewatch, rewind, take notes, etc. for it all to make sense to me. And it's possible I'm just making half this stuff up in my own head and the screenwriter had no such intentions.

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Bank owner got his wealth through Nazi's

Robber was going to steal the money and out him as a Nazi.

In the ending montage he says if he stole the money then he'd be just like the CEO.

So instead he left the ring so that it would be found out that the CEO got his wealth through Nazis by whoever goes through his box.

It wasn't about money, it was about not letting the CEO live his life as 1%er based on Nazi life.

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Well, one would assune that clive owen's character may have, but more likely bernard rachelle's character's family was directly affected by plummers loyalty and bigotry during ww2. So there was a personal motive for the robbery and the 'holding onto the paper trail' of plummers transgressions during the war is just possible future ransom and payoff.

This is a BRILLIANT movie! One of the most underrated films of the millennia. Just awesome. And we could assume that denzel used the 'charity' diamond dropped in his pocket to propose to his girlfriend. All a result of their talk in the bank. The whole thing is truly brilliant. Well -acted masterpiece imho

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What I'm really confused about was the motive for the whole thing. Did Clive Owen do the whole thing just to expose Plummer? But in the end, Denzel keeps the secret and takes his promotion, right? So what was the point? Or Clive Owen knew about the diamond and wanted to steal it, but sees the Nazi paper and figures he'll turn the diamond over to Denzel to expose Plummer, except that by the end, Denzel is basically on Plummer's hush-money payroll. Or does Denzel expose Plummer in the end? I swear I can not make heads or tails of any of it.


At the end of the movie, when Clive Owen exits the bank, he gets into the SUV and there's an older guy sitting in the back behind the passenger seat. He rifles Clive's backpack and says "Where's the ring?"

Now, flash back to earlier in the movie when Plummer is explaining his guilt to Jodie Foster in the barber chair. He says that Nazis stripped the assets from a Jewish banking family, including the ring, and he got it all, and the banking family all died in the concentration camps.

It was never explicitly stated, but here's my take:

The old guy was a relative of the banking family who didn't die in the camps. He hired Clive Owen to steal the contents of the box so that the Jewish family could get revenge against Plummer, knowing that there was evidence of his complicity with the Nazis in that box. How they know any of this I can't explain, other than maybe there was years of surveillance and snooping.

The diamonds taken from the box were just a bonus to Clive, the real task were the incriminating documents. If a family relative could use the documents to prove Plummer's involvement in Nazi plunder, they probably would have a major financial claim against Plummer that could strip him of untold millions -- far more than the $5-10 million a vintage 10 carat Cartier diamond ring, which is why Clive was able to get away with leaving it in the box. Its value was ultimately sentimental, and if Denzel "followed the ring" it would ultimately get returned to the person making the claim against Plummer anyway.

Denzel never liked the ending of the robbery -- it didn't add up and he kept digging, ultimately getting the warrant to open box 392 where he found the ring. "Follow the ring" led him to Plummer as hiding something.

It's not made clear how he tied the ring and Plummer to the Nazis, which was necessary to make the War Crimes play with Foster & the Mayor at the restaurant. The ring was prominently displayed on screen in a vintage Cartier box. I don't know, but I'd guess that the ring could probably be traced to its original owner through Cartier or possibly even because the stone was so large and well known -- diamonds of that cut and size I think leave a trail in the diamond biz.

Denzel's play with Foster and the Mayor was his way of protecting himself and going at Plummer. He had the ring entered in police evidence and let Foster know he knew that she was protecting a Nazi collaborator. I don't think Denzel meant to take it any further, he was only doing it as insurance against Foster so the he wouldn't see any blowback. It's open speculation whether Denzel himself had already called the War Crimes office, but I doubt he did.

The loose diamond in his pocket was planted by Owen when he bumped Washington leaving the bank. It was one of the bag of loose diamonds from the safety deposit box, not the large Cartier ring from the safety deposit box.

Bottom line is that it was never a "bank robbery" at all, it was a heist of Plummer's Nazi records. The bank robbery was just a misdirection.

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Reviewers of the movie also thought it lacked credibility and logic. Much of it makes no sense unless you assume info was available to Dalton (offscreen). I hate off screen info that you must assume took place in order for a story to make sense.

Even tho Denzel showed Ms White the ring at lunch, did she keep it? What was she gonna do with it?

Too many questions and the answers have to be provided by my own mind? And the person sitting next to me has different answers.
Movies like this just cause a headache at the end.

They think they are smart for making it confusing. But they don't end up getting awards for crap like that.

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Denzel kept the ring. He very clearly pockets it when he gets up and walks away from the restaurant table the mayor and Foster were seated.

I think there's enough info in this movie to have it all make sense. The only thing never explained is how Clive Owen knew which bank branch and which safety deposit box to go after, but if we knew that ahead of time it would have spoiled some of the twists throughout the movie. You can only guess that it involved a lot of work with inside info cross referencing boxes with owners and eliminating boxes that had otherwise identifiable owners, probably by making sure the owners were real people unconnected with the bank owner and which boxes actually generated payment invoices.

One thing it made me wonder was if banks are required to keep records on who owns which boxes. While I'm sure they want to to keep records straight, it's easy to see how if they wanted to they could do a brisk business in anonymous safety deposit boxes. The contents are private and boxes with sketchy ownership records would be a great way to hide or exchange stuff in a way that would almost ever be knowable to anyone.

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Sure, the bank has record of who holds what box, they make income off these things. It wouldn't be hard for a bank owner to have one without record. The box belongs to the signature of record. Usually, someone only might only have a spouse or another that has power of attorney access to the box. Because of the positive identification needed it wouldn't make the best, "drop", if that's what you mean. Might not know what's in it, but they have record of who has had access.

I actually found a diamond in a vault once, lodged between the crack between wall and floor. Gave it to the manager when I was leaving. As soon as I walked out the door it hit me, he had no way of knowing who's box it came from and probably kept the damn thing.




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You did the right thing both ethically and morally. From a practical standpoint, at some later date the owner of the diamond would have found it missing and reported it to the bank, the insurance company and the police. The ensuing investigation would question everyone who had accessed the vault from the time the owner last saw the diamond there. The diamond couldn't have been there for very long or someone else would have found it before you. Therefore there would likely be a limited number of persons who had visited the vault and a limited number of bank employees who had access to it. That would, of course, include both you and the bank manager. Once you told the police you had found the diamond and given it to the bank manager, he would be in deep *beep* If you had stolen the diamond, you would have never informed the bank manager and he wouldn't know about it, so the bank manager couldn't point the finger at you without incriminating himself. The bank manager could claim that you never gave him the diamond but then why would you make up a story like that and complicate matters when you could have simply said that you knew nothing about the stolen diamond? The police might well investigate your finances and search your premises but after finding nothing, you would be cleared.

If you had kept the diamond, what would you do with it? It would probably be listed in a catalog of missing jewelry. Would you keep it until the police or someone else found it? Hide it until you decide what to do with it always hoping no one else would find it in the meantime? Have it made into jewelry that the jeweler or some other diamond expert would eventually recognize as stolen, especially if it just recently went missing. Do you know a good fence that you could trust not to turn you in and claim the reward or insurance company's finder's fee? The cops would be questioning all of the pawn shop owners, known fences and jewelry thieves. If they came up empty, they'd go back and question the people who had recently accessed the vault again. How well would you stand up to repeated police interrogations knowing you are guilty?

So yes, you did the right thing.

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It's possible they opened each safety deposit box in the vault offscreen, and only showed us the part when they came to the right box.

As for the branch, Chaim was an expert on war reparations and he's connected to the diamond business. He easily could've found out that the branch was built right after the war by Arthur Case. And if he were already on Arthur's trail (due to his knowledge of the war and perhaps personal knowledge as well) he could've guessed that the vault held the ring.

Also, the title of the film makes me wonder if there are multiple "inside men." For example, Peter Hammond, the bank manager, is the first to get beat up. That might've been a set up. Peter may have given Chaim inside information. Then Vikram is the only one who withheld his keys. He might have done that as a signal that "this is the correct key you need to use." So both or either of them may have been paid off earlier, and one of them may have told Chaim which box to look for.

For a while, I even thought that Frazier was in on it. After all, he was desperate to clear his name and get his promotion. The heist "happened" to occur when the other detective was on vacation. And Frazier was very much into delaying any action against the robbers until the exact moment they needed it. Then he goes into the bank, they scuffle, and Steve-O says, "he almost pulled your mask off!" That made me think that Dalton and Frazier were in cahoots but the other robbers didn't know it.

Then Frazier says no one will get killed, then they do the fake killing -- that seems like a set up to get Frazier pulled off the case and put the head cop in charge, knowing he'll go in. Which is what they want at that point -- they're ready for the cops to come in.

Then at that exact point, Frazier "discovers" the bug. And he shouts (in full hearing of the bug) exactly what the cops are going to do, which seems to be a signal to the robbers to get ready.

The only thing that makes me doubt this theory is that Frazier did seem surprised at Dalton bumping into him. Like when he finds the diamond in his pocket, he's not just thinking "oh, unexpected payoff." He's also remembering what Dalton looked like, as though he'd never seen him before.

Actually, that does make sense in terms of Steve-O being upset about the mask -- maybe they were all in cahoots, but the deal was that Frazier would never get a look at the robbers. Or maybe only Dalton and Frazier were in cahoots, but the deal was that Frazier wouldn't see his face. Which is why Frazier didn't pull down the mask even though it seemed like he could've. So in addition to the bonus diamond (all Frazier wanted was to do a good job on this heist so he'd be promoted), Frazier got a glimpse of Dalton for the first time.

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I agree with most of what you wrote except:

It's not made clear how he tied the ring and Plummer to the Nazis, which was necessary to make the War Crimes play with Foster & the Mayor at the restaurant. The ring was prominently displayed on screen in a vintage Cartier box. I don't know, but I'd guess that the ring could probably be traced to its original owner through Cartier or possibly even because the stone was so large and well known -- diamonds of that cut and size I think leave a trail in the diamond biz.

Denzel's play with Foster and the Mayor was his way of protecting himself and going at Plummer. He had the ring entered in police evidence and let Foster know he knew that she was protecting a Nazi collaborator. I don't think Denzel meant to take it any further, he was only doing it as insurance against Foster so the he wouldn't see any blowback. It's open speculation whether Denzel himself had already called the War Crimes office, but I doubt he did.

--Frazier didn't tie the ring and Arthur Case to the Nazis. He knew that the safety deposit box must be tied to Arthur Case because it was omitted from the police list and because Case is the only one who had enough power to do that plus money to hire Madeline. He talks to Madeline before he opens the box, so he doesn't yet know what will be in it. But he asks her, "What did Case do?" or "What's Case's involvement?" or something. Madeline gives him a bland answer that she hopes will satisfy him (he has their recorded conversation in which she and the mayor tried to bribe/blackmail him, so she kinda needs to answer his questions). She says something to the effect of, "he made a lot of money during the war."

--So when Frazier finds the ring, he first takes it to Case to see if Case will explain it. When Case doesn't, he takes it to Madeline and the mayor, threatens them with "someone is going to jail" as in, "if you don't cooperate, I'll give the police my recording of you." Madeline immediately knows what the ring is and says she'll put Frazier in the NYT for solving the case. That's when he gives her the war crimes phone number. He doesn't know what the crimes were; he just knows that it has to do with the war because Madeline already told him that in a previous scene.

--Frazier absolutely meant to out Arthur Case. He wanted to solve the case. In fact, he's always wanted to be an honest detective and earn his promotion, but the shady cops were undermining him. So in this case, he was streetwise enough to record his conversation with Madeline and the mayor as soon as it was made clear they were trying to bribe/blackmail him into letting Madeline have access to the bank. That's what he used as leverage to get Madeline to out Arthur. She's the only one (besides the robbers) who knows exactly how the ring is connected to Case.

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I don't know, but I'd guess that the ring could probably be traced to its original owner through Cartier or possibly even because the stone was so large and well known -- diamonds of that cut and size I think leave a trail in the diamond biz.

Good point. Besides, diamonds marking started in the mid 1800s and marking/identification techniques evolved until the commonly known laser etching was developed in the 80s.

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You're not stupid. You're simply not a) currently unemployed and b) an obsessive compulsive. Thankfully, I'm both and I'm here to make sense of it all. I watched and re-watched scenes, and even compared them to a scene summary on the internet. Here's everything you need to know and nothing more.

First, here's the list of the five gang members with brief bios:

-Chaim. He is Jewish, his nephew is in the diamond business, and he tells another hostage that he used to be a lawyer but now he teaches courses at Columbia Law in "genocide, slave labor, and war reparations claims." We should infer that he is the one who knew about Arthur Case's theft of the ring and that it was probably his idea to carry out the heist. Also, he is a well-known customer at the bank -- at the start of the film, he's seen sitting and chatting with a bank employee as though they are old friends. He's might be the one who knows the bank layout and communicated the details to Dalton.

-Steve-O. The character's name is Darius Peltz. He is the guy who, while pretending to be a hostage, takes off his mask and gets dragged away and beaten. His last name is German, and it means "furrier." We can infer that he might be Jewish. Coincidentally, he has the same first name as the head cop.

-Steve. The character's name is Ken Demurjian. He's Armenian, born in New York. Thousands of Jews immigrated to Armenia during WW II, then thousands left the country starting in the early 1980s. Ken might be the American-born son of Armenian Jews. Both Darius and Ken are the right age to be Chaim's students, which may be how they got involved. When Frazier tours the inside of the bank, he sees both Steve and Stevie bound and gagged as hostages.

-Dalton Russell. The narrator, who figured out the plan for the heist. It's implied that he may have been hired -- possibly by Chaim. Dalton's name is English and Scottish, so although he may be Jewish, it's less likely than it is for the other gang members. He says he's doing it for the pay and "because he can," which could imply that he's motivated by the intellectual challenge rather than by a personal stake in righting wrongs. That said, he does seem to be ethical.

-Stevie. Dalton's girlfriend. We don't ever learn her name. She might be involved simply because she's Dalton's girlfriend, but she does know how to pick locks. Conversely, she may be Jewish and/or one of Chaim's students, and she is the one who connected them to Dalton. Near the end, she says, something like, "He did it. Just like he planned," implying that she's proud of him for carrying this off. That could mean she's the one who recommended him to the others.

Okay, so now you know that the gang is led by a Jewish expert on war reparations, and may have at least two other Jewish members, and that Dalton is probably a hired hand. Also, Chaim is a bank customer familiar with the bank.

What is the gang's motive?

The have two goals:

They want to steal the diamonds and see Arthur Case publicly exposed for his crimes. They may intend to use most or all of the diamonds to help Holocaust survivors, minus whatever they pay Dalton.

The loose diamonds are evidence of nothing, but the ring can be identified as the one stolen from the wealthy French Jewish family whom Case sent to their deaths. That's why Chaim says, "Where is the ring? That's the whole point." Dalton tells him the ring is in good hands, and Chaim accepts that answer. If they wanted to sell the ring, that answer wouldn't have been acceptable.

Why does Dalton leave the ring for Frazier to find?

During the heist, Madeline White (played by Jodie Foster) enters the bank to talk to Dalton. This is how Dalton finds out that Arthur Case suspects the bank robbers might find his secret (although Case probably thinks they are simply trying to rob the bank, not expose him). Dalton sees that Case is able and willing to hire someone to protect his interests. And that the person he hired is powerful enough to work her way through the police to retrieve the contents of the safety deposit box.

Later, he meets Frazier. He sees how smart and dedicated Frazier is. He trusts Frazier to figure out what Case is guilty of.

The fact that he trusts Frazier to do the ethical thing and expose Case -- well, I confess that's a bit of a mystery to me. Either he has a gut feeling or he's heard something while bugging the cops that makes him understand that Frazier wasn't in on the "check cashing scheme" but is being blamed for the missing $140,000. Earlier, Madeline said he's being blamed because he "wasn't diplomatic enough," which implies that some cops were in on the scheme and Frazier might've called them on it. So maybe Dalton heard something (I don't recall) or maybe trusting him is just an instinct.

So here's what Dalton is thinking:

-If we go ahead as planned and expose Arthur Case ourselves, Madeline will find a way to thwart us. It also makes me more vulnerable to being caught.
-On the other hand, if we leave the ring for Frazier, he'll solve the mystery and Arthur Case will be exposed without risk to ourselves. It's also more likely to succeed because the entire police department will become aware of the ring. It doesn't hurt that Frazier is a nice guy who needs a promotion. Solving the mystery of this ring could help him do that, whereas it doesn't do anything for us.

So Dalton leaves the ring in the safety deposit box, along with the gum that shows he opened the box (otherwise the ring could be seen as the complete original contents of the box -- Frazier doesn't know that there were diamonds and Nazi documents in there earlier) and a note to "Follow the Ring."

Remember that Dalton didn't expect the Nazi documents to be in the box -- just the diamonds and the ring. Probably the only people who know about those documents are Dalton, his girlfriend, Arthur Case, and Madeline (after he shows them to her). He says he's keeping them to exchange for Arthur Case's help if he gets caught. This is another clue that Dalton is in this mostly for the pay and the mental challenge, not mainly to expose Case. Dalton doesn't want to get caught, so he leaves the ring to allow Frazier to do the work of exposing Case.

Why does Frazier bring the ring to the Mayor and Madeline White?

To understand this, let's go over what Madeline knows and when she knows it.
When she meets Arthur Case, she tells him "no guarantees" and if she finds something dangerous, the deal is off. He agrees. At this point, she thinks this is a simple bank robbery but that Arthur Case doesn't want to risk the robbers (or later, the police) opening the safe deposit box. So when she tells him she can make sure no one touches it, she thinks that all she needs to do is offer them 2 million dollars in exchange for letting her take the contents of the box.

When she meets Dalton, she finds out that Arthur Case worked with the Nazis. This is the first she hears of this. And remember, she is somewhat ethical herself. When she meets with Bin Laden's nephew, she says, "You haven't seen your uncle in 9 years?" She's clearly done research before agreeing to work with him, and it sounds like she wouldn't work with him if she thought he was involved with terrorist activities.

She's also finding out during her meeting with Dalton that the robbers knew about Arthur Case's past and that Dalton is keeping this document as insurance. That's a much trickier situation. She can't solve this as easily. But Dalton explains that he'll give Arthur back the documents in exchange for his help if Dalton gets caught. So at this point it seems like Arthur is safe as long as the robbers don't get caught. And even if they do, they'll bring the documents to Arthur instead of the police. So all is well enough.

To make sure the robbers aren't caught, she uses her influence with the police for them to bury the case. Only it doesn't work on Frazier, who goes to the judge to get a search warrant for the safe deposit box. Madeline hears about this through her connections and she is waiting for Frazier when he leaves the judge's chambers. She thinks she has the upper hand because Frazier can still be blamed for the missing $140,000. But that's when Frazier explains that he recorded her and the mayor trying to both bribe and blackmail him to do something unethical. So now he has the upper hand and she has to let him go ahead and inspect the safe deposit box.

During her conversation with Frazier, he asks her what Arthur Case is trying to hide. He's figured out that only Arthur could afford to hire her, could omit that safe deposit box from the police records, etc. She tells him that Arthur made money from other people's misfortunes during WW II. She doesn't tell him Arthur worked with the Nazis.

After that, as a safety measure, she uses her influence to get Frazier promoted to First Class Detective and clears him of the check cashing scheme, hoping that will convince him to abandon the bank case. After all, he no longer needs to prove himself in order to be promoted. All he needs to do is play along. Plus she kinda needs to promote him so that he won't blackmail her with his recording.

She collects her pay from Arthur. At this point, she's recently found out that the robbers didn't take anything else. (Before this, she assumed they were going to take money from the bank, too.) So she's figured out that there must've been diamonds in the box. Diamonds are pretty much standard wartime currency, so her hypothesis makes sense.

Now this is when Arthur tells her there is also a ring that can be traced back to him. He tells her partly as a confession for something he deeply regrets, but partly because he still might need her to protect him if the ring surfaces. She thinks the robbers have the ring, and so she probably still thinks they just want it as insurance. So she reassures Arthur.

But! When Frazier gets his promotion, it doesn't dissuade him from looking in the safe deposit box. When he finds the ring, he knows it's Arthur's but he doesn't know what it means. So he goes to see Arthur to see if he can get him to break down and confess to something. Arthur doesn't.

So Frazier's next step is to go to the mayor and Madeline. Frazier could try to solve the mystery himself, but he knows that Madeline has the details already -- or at least, he suspects she knows more than he does. He brings them the ring and says "somebody has to go to jail," implying that he will turn them in with his recording unless they turn Arthur in. Immediately, Madeline says, "How would you like to be on the front page of the New York Times?" This means she's saying yes, that she'll turn Arthur in. Frazier says great and then gives her the recording back. In other words, he's saying that's all he wanted: he has his promotion, he's cleared of wrongdoing in the check cashing scheme, and he's solved the crime and caught Arthur." He's giving her the recording in exchange for her turning in Arthur.

Madeline has already told Frazier that Arthur made money during the war, so that's how he knows to give her the war crimes phone number.

Why doesn't Frazier just turn Arthur in himself?

He knows that Arthur is being protected. If he turns Arthur in, it will probably be just like the check cashing scheme. Everyone will be pressured, from the top down, to cover this up and Frazier will be the fall guy. Only Madeline has the power and influence to out Arthur as a criminal. So Frazier goes to her.

Frazier hasn't kept Arthur's crime a secret. He's exposing Arthur's crime. And he didn't cooperate with the mayor and Madeline that night because they offered him a promotion -- he cooperated because they told him they'd make things worse for him if he didn't. When he gets the promotion, he still goes forth to solve the bank heist -- in other words, he's committed to earning his promotion.

But when Frazier discovers that Dalton bumped into him and left a diamond in his pocket, it's implied that Frazier will keep the diamond and won't pursue Dalton (not that he has much to pursue him on -- just a description of him in street clothes). However, it doesn't really hurt anyone for him to keep the diamond.

It's a great use of doing wrong to accomplish right. I hope this explanation helps.

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The analysis of a couple of scenes-are longer than the entire film...it's only a movie

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I love caper movies. And as I said, I'm currently unemployed. But hey thanks for the "great job, this is interesting and helpful."
Or rather, if you're compelled to post snide comments for no reason, just tell yourself "it's only a movie discussion board."

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Well, I'm grateful for your explanation and it finally helped me figure out what exactly went on in this complex thriller

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That's a great summary, thanks!
Just watched the movie a couple of days ago and you managed to answer my lingering questions thoroughly.

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Can someone tell me why Arthur HAS to keep those papers in the vault and not destroy them if they are so incriminating ?

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Nazis love them some paperwork. They produced tons of it in the war.

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Dalton's girlfriend says her name is Valerie Keepsake to the cops.

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first, I appreciate your (and a few others) taking the time to politely explain things in a straightforward manner for those that have a hard time paying attention to the movie. I try not to be shocked by some of the ridiculous things I read on the intraweb, especially in regards to movies... but I usually fail. it drives me nuts when I see these supposed plot wholes and questions that are almost always straightforward and logical, if one simply pays attention. I've loved this film since the first time I saw it, and have watched it many times.
I do have an honest question that you might help with (and I do apologize for poor grammer and spelling).... the only thing that always struck me as odd at the end (and I seriously not trying to nitpick, I don't consider it a plot whole or anything like that)... heck I don't even know if it's a true question, but I love an extra opinion or two when it comes to clive's character bumping into denzel's character as he's leaving... granted it totally fine if it's in the movie just to add a little nod to the two charchters respecting each other... but I don't think there was anyway that clive owen's character would have known that on the exact day he walks out of the bank that he would run into denzel's... all of hs stuff was in a backpack and a duffel bag, all the diamonds would be in there too? he wouldn't have randomly left out one diamond to "accidently" :) bump into and leave in the cops pocket, nor would it be so loosely stashed that there would be and accidental transfer as they brushed past each other (in my opinion)... i actually love the fact that it was in the movie and i think it adds to dnezel's character being a good guy getting a good guy bonus in the end... a little nod from the ethical criminal to the ethical cop... but it always seemed to peek something in me... it was the only part in the film that seemed to be a little bit of an odd coincidence.... there's are lots of overanylizers on imdb, i was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on that particular scene? thanks
(and if the only logical answer is that it just ties the room together like leboswki's rug, i'm down, because i do think it adds a great subtle touch to the end of the film and the characters) i would just like any logical thoughts on that lil bit
blessings and bacon to all that exist

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common-name.... and I love the extra thought of the team all being students of the old professor.... my original take was that the team were all hand picked by the mastermind to play relatively straightforward roles in his perfect caper simply for the money... the mastermind somehow knew about all the untraceable diamond stuff (it didn't seem important how he knew it, heck that would be a whole different film)but when the old man asked about the ring in the car, it was just because he left the biggest diamond behind... but a smart thief would know that that is something not easily sold... and anyone with a basic knowledge of the ww era would know that there was a lot a real shady stuff that went down... he put two and two together... took the papers for super insurance incase anyone else was as smart as him and figured it all out (a little get out of jail free card... but he was an ethical thief (that didn't want to hurt anyone) and left the note next to the ring as a little parting gift knowing that a good cop would follow up on it further disguising his crime as war payback... when he was really in it for the money and because he could.... again many possibilities but none of them take away from the film that too me is just a great lil heist movie :)

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that's a great point

that part's answered .his friends called him from the car outside to give a warning..

we also can assume frazier went to the bank quite a few times as part of the investigation ,maybe even daily as he was the lead investigator...and it's barely a week..so frazier pop up now and then is very plausible .and he'd probably not escape between the first working hour..probably he'd choose a time when the bank's a bit crowded..nearby noon time my guess

that said it was still a big coincidence but not implausible ..you would even expect they add security heavily.

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It was well planned out. There were no loose ends. They were probably planning it for years.

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