Whitemen did not start slavery. Slavery has existed in the history of mankind, like it or not, amongst the natives themselves, yes, way before whitemen from Europe stepped foot on their shores. Look at the hystory of Egypt, the Americas (the Aztecs, Incas etc) even Africa had a history of slavery amongst africans themselves before the whiteman took over their lands. There were even slaves amongst Europeans, at one time or another. Therefore slavery isn't white against black, it's the strong against the weak, whatever their nationality or colour. Please don't think now I'm deluded, I know that black slavery by the whiteman happened and was terrible, but you also have to put it in a larger context, that there has always been slavery, of one kind or another. Why? Because that's the way it has always been. In Europe, until the Anti-Slave Act came into place, it was legal and everything that is legal is acceptable, right? For example Homosexuality was illegal, and many a gay man was executed because of this. Slavery, well that was okay because the LAW said it was okay.
Anyway, I think to step up and go against the national grain and actually contribute to destroying a very powerful moneymaking device that contributed to Britain and Europe's wealth when it was most inconvenient to do so, DOES deserve a pat on the back, because they made it ILLEGAL to own anybody. Nobody in Egypt did this, nobody in Africa did this, nobody anybody stood up to the hierarchy and made it ILLEGAL. So, yes, that does deserve a pat in the back, not because they were white, but because they DID it.
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youngian67
17 years ago
"I hope all of u think about going to watch the films on Nat Turner and Toussaint Louverture as well."
Check out the underrated Queimada by Gillo Pontecorvo of Battle of Algiers fame.
Although a fictious slave rebellion it captures this period and has a great performance from Marlon Brando as (a surprisingly convincing) British agent full of liberal Victorian generosity towards the slave army and their leader trying to eject the Spanish slavemasters
It is about cynical imperialist duplicity and the rebellion of course gets shafted by the 'liberal' British.
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Jake_Shuttlesworth
17 years ago
i'm well aware of of slavery's existence prior to the african-europian slave trade. if u read my OP more thoroughly u would've noticed that i mentioned the fact that blacks participated in the slave trade as well. it even goes way back to the bible (whether ur religious or not is irrelevant).
but that is besides the point because as long as there's been slavery, there have always been abolitionists, and i guarantee u most of them were not white politicians, but rather the formerly enslaved, who knew of the pain first-hand. their stories are yet to be told.
u'd be very naive to think that some whites don't feel somewhat vindicated by the praises heaped on white abolitionists such as william wilberforce. as i mentioned before i'm not suggesting that anyone, balck or white feel personally responsible for the role their ancestor played in slavery, but i'm not about to applaud white europians (on the 200th year anniversary of all occasions) for ENDING SOMETHING (THE AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE - let me repeat - THE A-F-R-I-C-A-N S-L-A-V-E T-R-A-D-E) which THEY BEGAN. argue with me on that.
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liz-langley
17 years ago
For you infomation pal,THE A-R-I-C-A-N S-L-A-V-E-T-R-A-D-E was infact S-T-A-R-T-E-D- by the A-R-A-B-S in cahoots with the A-F-R-I-C-A-N-S,white people did N-O-T S-T-A-R-T IT,but they sure as hell E-N-D-E-D it!!!.
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Jake_Shuttlesworth
17 years ago
my dear, there's a big difference between the saharan slave trade and the african slave trade.
and another thing:
although all forms of slavery are inhumane and evil, the saharan slave trade was known for the fact that it's slaves were more or less servants. rarely were they KEPT in iron chains, and physically abused. some even served as guards or personal assistants, and lived in the house with their "owners".
and white ppl ended slavery? what a sweeping statement. for economic and industrial purposes, it was going to be stopped anyway. SOME whites saw this, (coupled with the few who actually saw how barbaric it was) and decided to bring that ending forward. but to say they ended it, as if they did it out of a collective conscience is *beep*
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liz-langley
17 years ago
Last i heard the sahara was in Africa,learned something today have you not.
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Jake_Shuttlesworth
17 years ago
my oh my, you're either very slow, or too insecure to admit when u're wrong.
the saharan slave trade is known as the trans saharan slave trade. it is not to be confused with the trans atlantic-african slave trade which is generally known as the african slave trade because it was the first time millions of ppl were taken as slaves from africa, and moreso the first one to involve the death of millions and a considerable amount of human rights violations during and after the journey. this is why this particular slave trade is referred to as the African slave trade.
please don't try to compare it to what came before it. that is an insult to all the millions who died in it. if u really want to learn something, u'll learn the difference between the african slave trade, and all other instances of slavery in africa, and also learn about the role that non-whites played in the abolition of slavery.
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madamemuffy
17 years ago
I have some new information for you all to digest slavery was abolised in 1807 200 years ago. In 1833 the british goverment paid out millions of pounds in compensation to SLAVE OWNERS! as you would a farmer if he looses his crops. so HAD slavery been abolished? humanely years after the abolishment Africans were stil being treating like animals. So this movie portrays false sense of hope and an incorrect account of what actually happened. William wilberforce was NOT the 1st person to think that slavery was bad, maybe the 1st person in government that did. But had the british not seen or heard of the moroon culture in Jamaica or the countless number of revolts towards owners that they may not have had the idea the abolish it. Afterall it was funding their way through law school.
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therealman
17 years ago
First, let me say the black people should stop using the word ppl and start using the word people.
Now that I have that off my chest, I think you are missing the point of the movie. What is more heroic standing up for yourself or for someone else? If a mugger pulls a knife on you and you defend yourself, good for you. If, however, you see some one holding a knife to the throat of a stranger and you risk your own well being to help the victim, that is truly heroic.
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sales-282
17 years ago
see your point here
europeans started the probelm tok all the spoils
then they ended it in britain and try to take the glory for that too
the europeans were shamed by this and so too white americans
this was barbaric disgusting inhumane evil greedy sick corrupt cruel poisonous vile the words dont do it justice
its estimated over 12 million black men and women either died or spent their lives enslaved to european overlords
I am british and I apologise.
I despise the fact there are british on here trying to make sick jokes about it and mocking those black people whose ancestors may have suffered under this tyrannical greed. petty pedantic relatively wealthy well off people in democratic countries with all the luxuries that this entails. stop it with the sick comments and stop this moral relativism. Its almost as though some middle class white men are jealous of those from a harder background? bizarre?
In Britain like most things this sick trade was run 100% by the tiny elite that have always ruled britain. the aristocracy. the few dozen or so families who have long owned the lands, wealth power and keys to the laws
the 4 cities that profited were Liverpool, London, Bristol and Hull.
they got fat on the profits but they sold their soul in the meantime
God bless those who suffered and rotted diseased terminally forced to lve and die aslave and estranged from all hope opportunity and your loved ones.
tied to ball and chain all on account of where they came from. this was as big or bigger than the holocaust. no compensation no acknowledgement no respect no nothing. why? they have no powerbase
the british dont want to acknowledge it. they are still behaving arrogantly and say lets move on. how move on when we aint learned or even acknowledged it
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james-337
17 years ago
"I am british and I apologise."
Why? Have you ever kept a slave? Are you guilty of participating in the slave trade? Because if you haven't and you're not then your apology is utterly pointless and empty.
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Chris_Docker
17 years ago
There's kind of point here but also several that are being missed. You acknowledge that black people in Africa started the slave trade long before white men came on the scene. They also asked for it to be brought back after it was abolished. But it's as if the black man invented beefburgers and the white guys invented McDonalds, so yes, you have a point.
But the film was aimed at a maximum audience. It's a mainstream movie. A more adult film could have looked at the complexities of what really happened. I would have liked some end credits that were a testament to the humanity of black people rather than just telling me what great heroes the white protagonists were.
And yet, as has been mentioned, it is a film about heroism, about the fight for civil liberties. It is not aimed at an African audience, much as I would like to see a similar movie made by an African director. So what does it accomplish. It praises fighting for what is right. More importantly, it lays down the important principles through which political change can be achieved (historically, many human rights issued are pursued with teh same tactics that Wilberforce pioneered). At, being mainstream, it gets kids into the cinemas. School outings full of them. And it has a website that offers links for you to fight slavery that is still happening today.
So yes, it has many faults. But on balance, I think the good it does maybe outweighs them.
http://comments.imdb.com/user/ur0064493/comments-index?order=date&summary=off&start=0
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tennantrodney
17 years ago
About your point on heroism - always agreed with that, which is why I don't have any real respect for Mandela especially since he signed into law the genocide of abortion in South Africa.His 'morality' was always conveniently self-serving and his 'humility' transparent - remember how he was so angry when his pride was injured because President Bush wouldn't take his call when he phoned to moan before the invasion of Iraq. Like Oprah - their egos know no bounds.
Do not confuse the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself.(Zen maxim)
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vega-37
16 years ago
Thank you for getting through a WHOLE POST without making an idiotic spelling mistake. You people (before therealman) are unreadable!!!!!!
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rustythepirate
17 years ago
Yes, we should stop admiring those who tried to end the slave trade, because, after all, they were white.
You are just as racist as the slaveowners.
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marissaeugine
16 years ago
Slavery was not started by whites, but the cruel methods were. British realized that people of Africa didn't have rifles, they had handmade war tools, so there was really no chance the Africans could have against the British. Thet took advantage of the Africans, ripping them away from their homes and families. You watch your wife or daughter get chained upside down and raped in front of you. You basically slept in your own waste for months at a time. You lay thinking, "what did I do to deserve this?", and you watch your mother, your best friend, and your kids die next to you.
I couldn't live knowing I was responsibel for all that pain.
***I think a great movie is able to move people. Move them with laughter, tears, anger, or fears.***
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thatcrazyredhead
15 years ago
And bloody hell, in some places slavery still goes on. So you're being a huge generalist here.
You're just a racist black man who hates white people.
Go jump into the diving well of a swimming pool while holding your PLUGGED IN monitor.
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wishingwell57
12 years ago
Jake,
What is your point for your beginning post?
And, you fail to mention the white slavery kidnapping of US citizens and Europeon citizens that took place by Muslim Arabs Barbary Pirates in the 1700-1800's until the Marines and Navy were created and the US wiped them out. The US was spending millions on ransom to Muslim Barbary Pirates.
For some reason, this is not spoken much about when teaching US history.
And, slaves to the Muslims were not treated like servants/family. Unless you consider being on call 24/7 with no choice and taken as sex slaves, both male and female, is being treated like servants. And, slavery was not totally outlawed in the Middle East until the 1960-70's. So, if you want to talk about anyone talk about the Muslims and their slave trade.
You, obviously have an axe to grind with white people.
Also, talk about the sexual slave trade and work slaves trade that is happening right now as I write this.
If you want to make a difference, talk about all the information.
What Wilberforce did was amazing in its day and time. After all, 300 of the MP's had their living, including the King of England, coming from the plantations and slave trade. To totally change that within 40 years is nothing short of amazing.
And, name one African or Muslim or Arab person or exslave that was an abolitionist? It was pressure from the west that ended Muslim and Arab slave trading.
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the_angel_charlie
17 years ago
Jake,
Surely a film such as this, (that personally i felt was well done) that promotes the idea that "all men are equal" and ignoring the colour of the main characters, has made me feel like i want to go and research the issue more thoroughly (for being a little sensible - i understand that films are rarely entirely factual).Having seen the film I want to know more about it. Shameful things in history are often swept under the carpet - not spoken of in an great detail. Very little was taught of it in school. An extremely sensitive subject was covered in a way that made me want to learn more, made me wish i had better faith, made me wish I could stand up for what i believed in to such a degree. The 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade is being marked to show remorse - not to congratulate, to remember, not hide. To me this film was not a pat on the pack to the people who abolished the slave trade, at the end it was a pat on the back to the people who fight, tirelessley, peacefully (a feat it in its self these days) to the detriment of their health, for what is right and good. But most of it was dedicated to showing men fighting for those who could not fight themselves.
The film promotes faith, justice and equality, it raises questions on the subject that previously i had never wondered at. Can this be a bad thing?
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kfound2
16 years ago
Wow, I'm not even going to finish reading the replys to this thread...
I just wanted to say this... It is not about patting "white men" on the back, its about looking at the life of a man that saw an injustice and did something about it... the color of his skin is irrelevant. And you're telling us not to feel bad about it since we didn;t start it, well neither did he!!
I would commend WHOEVER it was that chose to stand up for something they believed in and make a difference... you wouldn't be acting so childish if the man who ended slavery was a black man who also was not around during the beging either...
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lhoare
16 years ago
No, but you can admire one human being's efforts to end inhumanity to other human beings, irrespective of anything else. He was not responsible for starting it, participating in it, or profiting from it, but he was partially responsible for ending a part of it. That's something for him to be proud of and for other people to admire. Can you say you have made similar efforts to right injustices - I certainly can't, and I suggest that unless you can you should pay him some respect.
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tanster-1
16 years ago
cornelia123 is Correct. I'm neither Black nor White BTW.
The thread starter is bitter over I-don't-know-what. Lots of bad Whites left over today who would own slaves if they could, but lots of Whites left over who wouldn't. Oh wait, I bet that applies beyond Whites. Wilberforce and his colleagues are heroes -- no matter how angry you are for whatever reasons. If it wasn't for those people, maybe you and I wouldn't be able to type so freely on our keyboards.
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