MovieChat Forums > 911: In Plane Site Discussion > Am I just in denial? *spoilers*

Am I just in denial? *spoilers*


While some aspects of this video are certainly interesting and valid questions, like the absence of debris in front of the Pentagon and the size of the impact area, some other video evidence doesn't convince me. For example, I don't see a flash before the second plane crashes into the WTC, I see it shortly after. I've looked at it over and over again, and at some angles it is more obvious to me than others, but at no point do I clearly see a flash before impact. Moreover, where did all the people from the planes go? Hundreds of them.

This is real life, not a movie. If an operation of this scale and complexity would occur, the overwhelming odds of some "insider" speaking out about these atrocities in a country like America are too great. And why come up with a plan like that knowing that there are much simpler ways, like for example training the terrorists and relaxing the security at the airport for fifteen minutes or so? One slip-up in this grand scheme and a revolution would happen. It's called "Occam's razor". The simplest explanation is the best. And the simple explanation is: it is much more logical to assume that the inconsistencies can be explained by something more benign and technical than such a conspiracy.

So, yeah. That's my "step one: denial".

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My friend, do some more research. It gets much worse than this. I have spent hours upon hours looking for logical rebuttals to this, and have found practiaclly nothing but a lot of propaganda. The more I look, the worse it gets.

People Will think, what I tell them to think

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The pentagon issue is definitely a concern as it is unlikely a plane hit it and there is no proof other than 'we say so!'

The rest of the issues about pods and explosions prior to impact are bollox. Anyone with common sense would question the questionable evidence shown. Propaganda. This is probably one of the worst 9-11 documentaries and shouldn't be taken at face value.

Watch Painful Deceptions 911 instead as that is factual based -
http://www.erichufschmid.net/ThePainfulDeceptionsVideo.html

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Brilliant film, I got that DVD in the mail last week (I got 14 of them!)

I agree, this is a really good film, did you get the DVD that had both Painful Deception and Reopen 911 with a panel of experts? Free DVD by the way. I may upload this to the webarchive sometime this week.

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[deleted]

here is a question....when a site like that encourages people to buy an obscurely large number of copies of the same video, does it not discredit the common viewer as maybe labeling him as lacking common sense or even gullible. Furthermore, what does it say about those that actually do buy all of those copies? do they maybe hope they can sell them and make a profit, as if people really want to hear what the video says be it true info or falsified? Sounds like a propaganda scam in itself....i don't know whatever....i'm gonna go and download this thing and see for myslelf....no need to buy 14 copies over here...

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Occam's razor is a very good principal and could be applied very easily to the Pentagon crash.

Except the simplest explanation is that the plane that "supposedly" hit the Pentagon would have: 1)left more(any) debris and 2) definetly! made a bigger hole.


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["I've looked at it over and over again, and at some angles it is more obvious to me than others, but at no point do I clearly see a flash before impact. Moreover, where did all the people from the planes go? Hundreds of them. "]

that is certainly a silly point.

4000 lives? were lost in the World Trade Centre Only a fraction of their bodies were recovered. there is still a lot of bodies unaccounted for.

would it be easy to recover the 100 people on a plane loaded with a full tank of highoctane full.
Yes some people on the ground turning looking at a jet flying at 100+ miles an hour
100 storeys up in the air

How can they claim there is no windows?
How can they identify its not an American Airline?
Theres 56 states and possibly one Airline company for each state.
Here in australia QaNtas has at least 5 different/unique coloured patterned designed aircraft.


Unless they are Airline company Experts their view is unfounded



As fair as i'm concerned it is possible the flash only occured on one trade centre have may have been
a the direct result of an action of a person inside the building.
b since it showed up on one building and not the other (facing completely different direction) light Refraction off something possibly the front of the aircraft.




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[deleted]

?

what does that even mean?


since it takes several hours to fly over 1 state border
i think they do get used

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yeh, *beep* right man. people dont realize how big australia is. people, were not just a country, were a whole continent. took us 10 hours to drive to adelaide from melbourne last week...sooo boring lol. but anyway, back to this 9-11 business. i dont know what to think, there is evidence either way to suggest that is was set up by the government, or if it was indeed an act of terror. im gonna keep my mouth closed untill i see more evidence...yes, more, there still isnt enough

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hope your not talking to me

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[deleted]

Here's some more evidence my friend...Whatch these:-


If you have broadband you can get more information on winamp pro, go to your media library and look for 'Truth' or the 'Freedom' channels, that's the 'Phaylon network'. Or you can download them using 'Limewire' shareware. Anyway here's just a few you might like to watch:-
'Loose Change'.
'Great Conspiracy of 911' Barry Zwicker.
'Martial Law' Alex Jones.
'Matrix of Evil' Alex Jones.
'Road To Tyranny' Alex Jones.
'911 commission Omission' Dr R.Griffin.
'The Corporation'.
'Secret of the Matrix' David Icke.
'Outfoxed'.
'The Truth & Lies of 911' Mike Ruppert.
'Greatest Lie Ever Sold' Anthony J.Hilder.
'American Dictators' Alex Jones.
'Orwell Rolls in his Grave'.
'911 Commission Report' Eric Hufschmid.
'Great Illusion of 911' George Humphrey.
'Painful Questions' Eric Hufschmid.
'Al Gore' (on the George Bush Power Grab)C-Span.
The brilliant Noam Chomsky and many many more.


Good Viewing and pass the message on.

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[deleted]

Yes I thought 'Outfoxed' Rupert Murdocks war on journalism was brilliant too, another one to watch about the media is 'Orwell Rolls in his Grave' also 'The Corporation' is worth watching.

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I m pretty sure there are 50 states in the US. I have only lived in the US since I was born about 20 years ago but I am pretty sure its 50.

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Have you never looked at a plane flying above you & noticed the logo? or even pondered at what the people behind the windows might be doing? In other words you can identify a flying plane from a great distance quite easily in most circumstances.

That woman deserves her revenge... and we deserve to die.

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a qantas and virgin blue aircraft

can you identify them easily at 500Metres above your head?

http://smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/08/15/virginqantas_wideweb__430x281.jpg

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According to this docu, the reflection was on the first hit as well.

I don't believe what he's saying, tho.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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I realize this post is 5 years old.
It's okay to be in denial. Let's face it, does it matter if you know the truth about what happened or not? At this point there will always be "sheeple" that will deny a cover-up conspiracy at all costs. Co-conspirators rely on these key people to provide them with an easy alibi. Jesus Christ could come down from heaven and declare 9/11 to be an inside job while pointing to the people responsible and the "sheeple" would just say that Jesus Christ doesn't exist either. Don't get me wrong, I am an extremely patriotic American and my mind is unfortunately bogged down with questions about just about everything that happened that day.

There is this orgy of evidence that popped up that just isn't credible or even explanable in my book. A passport and visa page from one of the alleged terrorists that was found intact, two drivers licenses one belonging to a stewardess, yet the indestructible black boxes were "destroyed" aka. unrecovered. Come on.

The series of military blunders that allowed the attacks to take place in the first place is another serious issue. We spend billions of dollars every year to train and equip the military and yet things got so FUBAR that the Pentagon gets crashed into by a jetliner? Come on.

Osama bin Laden gets fingered and all of the credit on this one, so what happens? We invade Iraq and over throw Saddam Hussein? Both people were funded and trained by the US, something about that really stinks. Saddam gets hanged, I hope that wasn't one of his many decoys.

Oh and where in the Hell were those WMDs that Bush was so hot to use as his excuse for invading in the first place? Where's the emperor's clothes again?

My biggest issue lies with how quickly the steel girders were shipped away to a foreign country for recycling before anyone could forensicly analyze them. The manner in which buildings 1, 2 and 7 descended that day is just too coincidental and peculiar and at the very least the steel should have been evaluated to determine if it indeed was heat that destroyed the integrity of the towers or was it sub-standard steel made prior to the contsruction or were the girders tampered with.(ie. controlled demolition evidence) I believe Larry Silverstein knows the truth and his verbal slip up about building 7 during the news interview proves that. It's no secret that the twin towers were losing him money everyday they were open. The fact he claimed both the north and south towers as separate terrorist attacks to rake in and additional 3.5 billion dollars makes one want to follow the money in this case. The fact he had just signed a 99 year lease in July on these buildings is really suspect as well. Come on.

I know the former president knows the truth, it was written on his face everytime you saw him on the news. Just forget about that though, the truth in his mind will never see the light of day.

As for all of the victims from the jet liners... I think you should just accept that they were on board when the planes hit their targets. You see, if they weren't at their perspective crash sites at the time of impact then they were probably moved to an alternate plane at the Cleveland airport and flown out over the ocean or Great Lakes and shot down where they will never be found at the bottom of the cold murky depths. Maybe a deep sea research sub will find something one day, but if they do they will never be allowed to broadcast the truth to the public. There have been reports of eye witnesses that have come out to the media and after being threatened to keep quiet have either vanished or died a sudden death. How's that for a conspiracy theory? I just made that one up.

If this was a legitimate terrorist attack from 19 box cutter wielding terrorists from al qaeda acting on behalf of Osama bin Laden or a black flag ops set up by unknown US Government conspirators will it make you sleep any better at night to know the truth either way? Me... personally... no. Either possibility presents severe implications, if it's al qaeda, they will get you wherever you are, if it was a black ops you are not safe from your own country that you pay taxes to every year and in return is supposed to protect you from the evils around the world.

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A passport and visa page from one of the alleged terrorists that was found intact, two drivers licenses one belonging to a stewardess, yet the indestructible black boxes were "destroyed" aka. unrecovered.

Black boxes are heavy and were pummeled by huge concrete floors, paper is light and much shoot out the other side of the WTC on impact.

Were these inside jobs too?

ONE


Nothing was expected to survive the breakup of the space shuttle Columbia over the Southwest three months ago. Imagine NASA’s surprise upon opening five canisters that had been found in the debris field — some of the 78,000 pieces of wreckage recovered — and in each, discovering a thriving colony of experimental worms.

The tiny creatures, no larger than a speck of fuzz on a sweater, were part of a study put together by NASA Ames Research Center and Stanford University Medical Center researcher Stuart Kim, PhD, associate professor of developmental biology and of genetics, to see how the worms fared in space.

Tiny C. elegans worms like this one play a critical role in science. Canisters full of the worms, part of a Stanford research project, managed to survive the Columbia shuttle disaster three months ago. Photo: Courtesy of Stuart Kim
"I was very surprised they survived," said Kim of the worms he sent into space. "I just thought that the explosion would melt them and then they would either freeze or burn to death on the way down from the upper atmosphere. Then the impact to the Earth didn’t shatter the canister and spill them all out. That’s just remarkable."

The worms hit the ground with an impact 2,295 times the force of Earth's gravity,
according to a research paper in December's issue of the journal
The extraordinary worms are called C. elegans, and are one of the cornerstones upon which animal studies are based (the others being mice, fruit flies and yeast).

http://news.com.com/2061-11204_3-6016657.html

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2003/may7/worm.html

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TWO

HOUSTON, Texas (CNN) -- Human remains found in a field in Texas late Saturday are believed to be those of at least one of the seven astronauts who perished aboard space shuttle Columbia when it disintegrated nearly 40 miles above the Earth.

Along with the remains, a charred NASA patch and a flight helmet were found on a rural road in Hemphill, east of Nacogdoches, Texas, according to The Associated Press. (Full story)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/02/01/shuttle.columbia/

The patch... Not really burned is it?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2003-02/6472139.jpg

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THREE

Rescuers who reached the wreckage of an airliner that crashed into a glacier-capped Colombian volcano found shards of metal, tattered clothing, photographs and burned money, but no sign of survivors.

"It looked like the airplane exploded," said Marcillo, holding a chunk of the plane in his hand. "There were pieces of flesh. The people were unrecognizable."


Those who had been to the crash site near the volcano's summit reported seeing wreckage strewn over a wide area and dismembered bodies. Local residents who participated in Tuesday's search returned with pieces of the plane and the passport of one of the victims - a Colombian nun.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/28/world/main325854.shtml

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FOUR

NEW YORK -- A small plane carrying New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor slammed into a 40-story apartment building Wednesday, killing both in a crash that rained flaming debris onto the sidewalks and briefly raised fears of another terrorist attack.

Residents were also allowed back into their apartments Thursday, except for the 29th through 31st floors, where most of the apartments were gutted by the fire and a six-story scorch mark marred the red brick.

Hersman said debris was scattered everywhere at the crash scene, including aircraft parts and headsets on the ground. The propeller separated from the engine. Investigators also obtained the pilot's log book.
Lidle's passport was found on the street, according to a federal official, speaking to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860

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FIVE

"Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...

Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.

A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.

In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:tI2PQRqfJiIJ:www.msnbc.com/local/MYOC/M324557.asp

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SIX

Flight 77

"During an interview earlier this week, Koch delicately handled eerie mementos of the crash found during cleanup: Whittington's battered driver's license... a burnt luggage tag and a wedding ring lie on a book dedicated to those lost in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. The wedding ring belonged to Ruth's daughter and the luggage tag belonged to one her granddaughters."
http://onlineathens.com/stories/091104/new_20040911030.shtml

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SEVEN AND EIGHT

The New York Times said at least two items of mail on the 9/11 planes were recovered:

On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound
New York Times
December 20, 2001

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NINE

Satam Al Suqami’s Pasport

TEN
The post card from the Hindenburg. (CREDIT TO Tom_Veil)
Hindenburg Crash Mail
The German zeppelin Hindenburg made sixty-three flights, including ten roundtrips to the United States in 1936. It met tragedy May 6, 1937.
This postcard was part of the mail salvaged from the wreckage. The U.S. Post Office Department enclosed the fragile, charred remains in a glassine envelope and officially sealed it before delivery to the addressee.


http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/museum/1d_Hindenburg.html

ELEVEN

Pages from an Israeli astronaut's diary that survived the explosion of the space shuttle Columbia and a 37-mile fall to earth are going on display this weekend for the first time in Jerusalem.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_astronaut _s_diary

CREDIT TO USAF2008


Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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The series of military blunders that allowed the attacks to take place in the first place is another serious issue

No blunders, the model then was a aerial attack from across the ocean. The fastest intercept in the 10 years before 9/11 over North America took longer than the 9/11 planes were in the air, and that plane had a functional transponder. The system has since changed because of 9/11.

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed.

Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet.

Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=3&c=y
This issue attracted many comments from other sites, attempting to themselves debunk the Popular Mechanics piece. 911 Research, for instance, referred to this quote by Norad official Major Douglas Martin, who in an AP story said:
"From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said".
www.wanttoknow.info/020812ap
And from this 911Research conclude:
It is safe to assume that a significant fraction of scrambles lead to intercepts, so the fact that there were 67 scrambles in a 9-month period before 9/11/01 suggests that there are dozens of intercepts per year. To its assertion that there was only one intercept in a decade, the article adds that "rules in effect ... prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts," and the suggestion that there were no hotlines between ATCs and NORAD.http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

This seems reasonable, until you look more closely, because the primary assertion they are objecting to here is that “there was only one intercept in a decade”. And that’s not what the original piece said: let’s look at the key points again.

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet
Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ,"...
So what Popular Mechanics are saying is that there was one intercept of a “civilian plane over North America” in the decade before 9/11, because all other intercepts were offshore. There’s no direct contradiction with the Douglas Martin quote, as he doesn’t say whether the intercepts were offshore or over the continental US.

It’s not just Popular Mechanics saying this, either. The October 2005 edition of “Plane & Pilot” magazine essentially did the same:
Terms like Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) and temporary flight restriction (TFR) quickly came into widespread use among the general-aviation pilot group. Those terms had been around for years. Military fighters and the ADIZ protected American coasts from intrusions by Russian Bear Bombers throughout the Cold War. TFRs were used for presidential security and other extraordinary events. But they weren’t part of a pilot’s everyday life. You didn’t get intercepted and forced down if you flew through a TFR.

Today, things are different. There’s an ADIZ that surrounds Washington, D.C. In the four years after 9/11, it was violated over 1,000 times. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) has scrambled fighters for intercepts within U.S. borders over 1,600 times. In the year previous to 9/11, NORAD intercepted airplanes in the ADIZ only 67 times, none of which occurred within the U.S. borders.
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2005/oct/busting_tfr.html

The Popular Mechanics claim still seems quite absolute, but then that just means it wouldn’t take much to disprove it. Just find a media report of an intercept, an interview with a pilot who was intercepted when they accidentally flew too close to the White House, anything like that... How difficult can it be? After all, if these 67 scrambles in 9 months were typical, and we’re equating scrambles with intercepts, then that suggests 893 of these events over 10 years. Even if only 10% were intercepts over the continental US, then surely there must be an unquestionable, rock-solid record of one of them, somewhere?

Well, uh, no, it seems not. At least not from the various Popular Mechanics debunking pieces. Alex Jones, for instance, tells us this:
I've talked to pilots who've had radio problems and F-16's fly up next to them. Everybody knows this, not just Maj. Douglas Martin the Public Affairs Officer. ...We have the public record, everybody knows this, this is public knowledge.
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm
No names, no references, nothing you can check, you just have to take his word for it.

Peter Meyer uses the Douglas Martin quote, then quotes an email as supporting evidence:
...Here is the "Key" to unlock the door: The extensive flight logs for 20 years from the 3 military bases in the area and Port Authority responding to air threats is exemplary.

Thousands of sorties run in response to threats, practice runs, false alarms, done weekly or daily over 20 years....
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
This is a little better as the person making the quote is named, but again, you’re still basically just taking their word for it. (There’s a little more to the email and their argument, but we don’t want to reproduce the entire page here, so zip over to the above site and check it out for yourself. We’ll wait.)

On balance, then, the “intercepts are routine” claim is far from proven, at least in conjunction with intercepts over the continental US. And if there really were so many, then it seems a little odd there’s not more concrete, solid documentation to show it.

What’s more, even if we ignore Popular Mechanics and just consider the Douglas Martin quote, it’s far from clear as to what this actually means. Note that he was talking about the number of times jets were scrambled (and possibly diverted). Could some planes have been recalled soon afterwards, perhaps because radio contact had been re-established? Absolutely, scrambling is only the first step. We don't know how many actual intercepts actually took place.

Another complication is that in the first figure Martin refers to scrambling jets or diverting combat air patrols, while in the second he mentions scrambling only. Is the quote literally correct, or does the “67” figure also include combat patrols that were diverted to a particular target?

Regardless of that, it’s worth bearing in mind that intercepts may not always be successful.
...another federal official said that two years ago [in 2002], military jets could identify and intercept only about 40 percent of intruders in training drills.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35440-2004Jul7_2.html
Some claim intercepts always happened if planes travelled into restricted or prohibited areas, but this isn’t true at all. An FAA rule change from September 28th 2001 makes this clear.

WASHINGTON - The FAA today alerted civilian pilots of their responsibility to avoid restricted airspace and the procedures to follow if intercepted, in light of the Department of Defense announcement that pilots near or in restricted or prohibited airspace face a forced landing, or as a last resort, use of deadly force by military aircraft...

Earlier, pilots who flew in restricted or prohibited areas received a warning from Air Traffic Control and then faced suspension or revocation of their licenses or a fine. Now a pilot faces interception by military aircraft and then a forced landing at the first available airport. The Department of Defense has stated that deadly force will be used only as a last resort after all other means are exhausted.

http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1415
So prior to 9/11 it seems that even flying in restricted or prohibited airspace wouldn’t necessarily result in an interception. Perhaps this process really wasn’t so routine, after all.


Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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My biggest issue lies with how quickly the steel girders were shipped away to a foreign country for recycling before anyone could forensicly analyze them

False!

May 29 2002: As the last steel column of the demolished World Trade Center was removed Tuesday, construction workers at the site were honored for their work there since September 11th.
http://www.wndu.com/news/052002/news_14322.php

Further, the recycling did not happen “before investigators even had the chance to look at them”. Here’s Dr W. Gene Corley, head of the Building Performance Assessment Team, in his testimony to the House of Representatives:

"There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures".
www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm

The Steel

http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/history/StatenIsland_photos.htm


Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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I believe Larry Silverstein knows the truth and his verbal slip up about building 7 during the news interview proves that. It's no secret that the twin towers were losing him money everyday they were open.

False!


''In January 1997 we had about an 80 percent occupancy rate,'' said Cherrie Nanninga, director of real estate for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the complex. Twenty percent of 10.5 million square feet of space is 2.1 million, which would be a substantial building by itself.

But as a result of the last year's work, Ms. Nanninga, said the complex is over 90 percent occupied and expects to it reach the 95 percent mark by the end of the year. That, she said, would be about as full as the center is likely to get, since there is almost always someone moving in or out. ''Ninety-seven percent occupancy would be full,'' said Ms. Nanninga...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05EEDA1438F932A05756C0A96E958260&pagewanted=print

So there was a loss of tenants after the 1993 bomb, however by 1998 they were reporting an increase in occupancy, to the point where it was about as full as it could get. Did things dip in the next year or two, though? No, they only got better. The following is a Port Authority press release (our emphasis):

NET LEASE OF WORLD TRADE CENTER JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR PORT AUTHORITY\'S REAL ESTATE DIRECTOR -- Cherrie Nanninga Credited with Shepherding Office, Retail Renaissance At Trade Center, Other Port Authority Facilities
Date: February 12, 2001
Press Release Number: 16-2001

When Port Authority Real Estate Director Cherrie Nanninga enters her 88th floor office each day, she passes a model of the World Trade Center, a stark reminder that she is in charge of the largest real estate transaction in New York history. The scale and complexity of the negotiations are astonishing. The complex has 10.4 million square feet of office space, 10 percent of all of the office space in downtown Manhattan. There are 400,000 square feet of stores selling upscale clothing, books and food - enough to keep Main Street bustling in a small town. And the world-famous landmark has offices for 40,000 workers.

"It's a considerable challenge, and the task is comparable to the sale of a small city," Mrs. Nanninga said of the trade center net lease. "But fortunately, there are a lot of good people working on it. The best way to maximize the value of the trade center is to just keep moving in the right direction."

"Cherrie's dedication and business acumen have allowed this important real estate transaction to remain on track," said Port Authority Executive Director Robert E. Boyle. "Through her leadership, she has made the World Trade Center a place where companies and retailers want to locate." ...

As Real Estate Director, a position Mrs. Nanninga has held since 1996, the occupancy rate at the trade center has risen from 78 percent to a healthy 98 percent, retail soared in the trade center's mall, and available office space in the Newark Legal Center has nearly been filled.

Today, only about 250,000 of the 10.4 million square feet of office space in the trade center remains vacant. And the legal center has an occupancy rate of over 99 percent.

Sales at the trade center's retail mall also have risen dramatically. In 1996, the mall's retail establishments averaged approximately $500 per square foot. Today, sales have doubled, and are expected to reach $900 per square foot by the end of this year, which is expected to make the trade center mall the third most profitable in the country. And major national retailers, such as Banana Republic, Coach and Godiva have opened stores in the trade center mall to cater to a daily audience of 40,000 employees and thousands of visitors. Many of these retailers indicate that their trade center stores are among their top sales producers in the country....
http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAuthority/PressCenter/PressReleases/PressRelease/index.php?id=61

No signs of problems here, in fact there seems to have been distinct improvements up to the time the towers were sold. which is exactly what you'd expect if the Port Authority wanted to encourage buyers, and get a decent price.



Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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The fact he claimed both the north and south towers as separate terrorist attacks to rake in and additional 3.5 billion dollars makes one want to follow the money in this case.

Actually he lost money and does till this day and the legal question was were they separate attacks because they were separate strikes? the court found they were, so, he' still in the hole.

Silverstein has lost 1.6 Billion and counting.

In its court papers, Swiss Re shows how Silverstein first tried to buy just $1.5 billion in property damage and business-interruption coverage. When his lenders objected, he discussed buying a $5 billion policy. Ultimately, he settled on the $3.5 billion figure, which was less than the likely cost of rebuilding.

http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/11/cx_da_0911silverstein.html

The actual court ruling awarded Silverstein 4.68 Billion, not factoring in attorneys fees. CREDIT TO JINGPAW,. THANKS!
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Larry-Silverstein-WTC6dec04.htm

And of course this isn't profit for Silverstein. The money is being provided for him to rebuild the WTC complex, and it turns out that's quite expensive ($6.3 billion in April 2006)


$4.7 billion in insurance money, $6.3 billion in costs?


Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority continue to be guided by a lease each signed six weeks before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The lease stipulates that should the complex be destroyed, Silverstein must continue to pay the $120 million a year rent in order to maintain the right to rebuild. Mr. Silverstein has tried to persuade the Port Authority that his closely held company is capable of rebuilding while meeting its massive rent payments. The rent is currently being paid from insurance proceeds, draining the amount available for rebuilding.
www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Larry-Silverstein-WTC6dec04.htm

$120 million dollars a year? So in the five years between the attacks and that article being written, Silverstein has paid out over $600 million on rent alone

6.3 billion in costs, 600 million in rent for ground with no building or revenue, almost 7 Billion in cost and 4.7 Billion in a insurance payout,

In a recent settlement the Port Authority agreed to pay half of the rebuilding cost which results in…..
A loss of about 1.6 billion for Larry Silverstein what a moneymaker!

The World Trade Centre
The super cracks it

May 24th 2007 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition
At long last, the developer and the insurers reach a deal

Eyevine

“I DON'T think anyone thought it would ever end,” said Eric Dinallo, New York state's insurance superintendent. But it has. In the early hours of May 23rd, seven insurance companies that had been refusing to pay out on claims related to the World Trade Centre site agreed to hand over $2 billion to bring the saga to a close. It was, they said, the largest single settlement in the history of the industry.

The payout will be split between the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, and Larry Silverstein, its developer, who took over a 99-year lease on its buildings weeks before they were destroyed on September 11th, 2001. The deal resolves all outstanding claims over the attacks and ends more than five years of often ugly legal manoeuvring, during which the insurers accused Mr Silverstein of profiteering and he lambasted them for ducking their duty.

Mr Silverstein had contended that the attacks should be counted as two separate insurance events, entitling him to double the payout. The courts backed him, up to a point: some insurers were told they could treat it as a single incident, others as two events, depending on the phrasing of their policies. Mr Silverstein won a total of $4.68 billion in lawsuits—around two-thirds of what he had sought—but until this week had collected only $2.55 billion.

Though he pronounced himself pleased with this week's deal, he had to make concessions, such as abandoning his claim that the insurers owed more than $500m in interest accrued during the squabble. The insurers, for their part, dropped their insistence that they owed not a penny until the rebuilding was finished, probably in 2012. But it was Mr Dinallo who made it all happen. In March, after taking office, he made it a priority to break the deadlock. Meetings were convened in Delaware, Paris and Geneva, and heads banged together. New York's governor, Eliot Spitzer, helped with a final push.

Mr Spitzer hailed the settlement as being of “monumental importance”. It removes the last big obstacle to redeveloping Ground Zero, and opens the way to issue tax-free bonds and tap other sources of private financing. The entire project is expected to cost at least $9 billion. That will pay for five skyscrapers, shopping areas, a train station (already under construction) and possibly a hotel. The centrepiece will be the much-redrawn Freedom Tower, rising to a symbolic 1,776 feet.


Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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I believe Larry Silverstein knows the truth and his verbal slip up about building 7 during the news interview proves that.

Not a slip and "Pull it" is not a controlled demolition term.

On the pull it statement

On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue:

Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducted a thorough investigation of the collapse of all the World Trade Center buildings. The FEMA report concluded that the collapse of Seven World Trade Center was a direct result of fires triggered by debris from the collapse of WTC Tower

In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.

Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building.
http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html

doesn’t accept that Silverstein’s quote is in itself evidence of that. He reports:

I mailed Jowenko BV and asked if 'pull' was an industry term for 'demolish'. They said it wasn't. Implosionworld said the same thing. I run into the same problem when looking into different dictionaries. There is always a distinction made between 'pull down', 'pull away' and 'pull back'. And I have not been able to find one person on the internet who uses this word as a substitute for 'demolish'.[/b] So I think it's safe to assume that Larry needs to clarify what he meant, but unfortunately he refuses to do that.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050327052408/http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/911_my_own_review.htm#222

Those sceptical of the “pull=demolish” idea suggest that “pull it” could mean “pull a firefighting operation”, instead. And even sites collecting examples to show that it is a demolition term (see http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/wtc7/pullit.html, for instance), offer some support for this idea. Note how that page also contains the following quotes referring to the firefighters (our emphasis on the words in bold):


Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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Spoken like a true Nazi. Try something new I suppose you have proof that Kennedy didn't boff Marilyn Monroe, go for it stud. Keep those blinders on.

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Spoken like a true Nazi. Try something new I suppose you have proof that Kennedy didn't boff Marilyn Monroe, go for it stud. Keep those blinders on.

Such a great rebuttal from a conspiracy nutbag, put on your tin foil hat to reject the evil Gray's mind control rays, take your meds and watch out for anal implants!

Club Stewie: Where the Fur Flies!

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There are people who scream crackpot, truther, all these other odd names - but if you saw and felt the towers go down at the moment they did, plane-no-plane, one thing's for sure scheduled demolition charges were present. Our production team was in the area for a 10 recording session, and we were just back to base four hrs. I'm not a directly affected person, as in lost family in friends in the non-existent solid rubble of the towers. We were all affected: too many jerks here to give more of myself than don't swallow the story, Hook, Line, and Sinker - yes, dig and do research for yourself.

The core should have remained standing. Why did the other buildings have to collapse, the most obvious is 7.

There were flashes before impact on as many reels of footage in frame and digits stops, pause your way in. Someone didn't just magically go around photoshopping every piece of footage.

Very powerful people can silence anyone... find out a [hu]man's greatest fears and use it against them. Didn't any read 1984? well mates, we are living it now.

Nancy*
Living my life vicariously through cinema
www.facebook.com/nancychandler.delinquentrecords

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