MovieChat Forums > Deja Vu (2006) Discussion > Confused... Inconsistent rules of time t...

Confused... Inconsistent rules of time travel?

posted 8 years ago by Mike716
6 replies | jump to latest

*spoilers*

So in the first timeline (everything before they send Doug back in time), the chronological sequence of events is as follows: Doug's partner finds the note, is killed, ferry blows up, then they send the note back. The note was always there in the first place before they even sent it, they didn't actually end up changing anything because sending the note back and the resulting events were already predetermined.

Why does sending Doug back in time change the events? The timeline where the terrorist was successful and the girl died should have never existed, because the second Doug always existed.

If there's multiple timelines, why is this not evident when they send the note back? It's contradictory.

Do both timelines still exist, or does the first timeline cease to exist, as Adam Goldberg's character suggests? That's all fine and good, except...

Why the hell is the ambulance there in the first timeline? That would mean Doug went back and was successful, but that's not the case. This contradicts the rules laid out by the note, AND the rules given by the two Doug timeline.

Also, just as a silly sidenote, if there are infinite timelines, why bother going back? The timeline where everyone dies still exists. The timeline where everyone lives always already did and still does exist. Another where everyone lives in the garden of Eden, and where the human race is extinct both exist. Just seems kind of pointless lol.
But can someone clear everything else up? I was digging it when the partner being killed already happened and they changed nothing, but then all of a sudden the rules change and they can alter time.

[–] doubl3 8 years ago

Sounds like you were thinking about the same was as I did. For instance, the phone call from her friend. She picked up due to the main character being there. But he was not there until the time travel. So that makes it seem like events happening in the main time line were already known to happen later on. YET magically all this other stuff gets changed. If both time lines go together, rather than them being two separate ones, then it makes no sense that he can now change things, while AT THE SAME TIME he is doing things to change events, some of his other actions from that same time were already seen in the original time line, as if known they would happen. So the whole boat thing should have been unchangeable.

I'm sure, as usual with plot holes or bad logic, people on here can come up with some crazy theory to make it work, but we all know it was just a goof or bad writing, in reality.

[–] vtastek 8 years ago

There is only one universe. Using the time machine is just like pressing rewind and then record.

The thing people miss here, like in every time travel movie, this is not the first loop. We don't know which loop we witnessed in the movie, it could be the 3rd or 6th.

There are two forces at work, butterfly effect, "small changes can have drastic effects in future" and the opposite of butterfly effect which is if you put in similar variables, you get similar results.

So the real events are more like Edge of Tomorrow but you only witness the last loop in this movie.

It makes total sense for loops to be similar, in the same sense, for them to change in small or big ways in each loop because of previous loop events so they are not exactly the same.

For this reason, the time travelers will notice these similarities and in their limited pov, feel like "we haven't changed anything" but in reality, they did change things. Viewers are clued about the existence of multiple loops but generally they identify with the hero too much to notice this. And off course the plot hole culture which doesn't accept the existence of an off-screen universe. :D

This means, there are multiple Doug bodies to be found. I doubt all of them vaporized.

Doug v1 --------------------------> ferry explodes ----> time machine arrives -->Doug v1 uses time machine
loop1: Doug v1 and Doug v2 -> ferry explodes ----> time machine arrives -->Doug v1a uses time machine
loop2: Doug v1 and Doug v3 -> ferry explodes ----> time machine arrives -->Doug v1b uses time machine
loop3: Doug v1 and Doug v4 -> ferry explodes ----> time machine arrives -->Doug v1c uses time machine
loop4: Doug v1 and Doug v5 -> ferry explodes ----> time machine arrives -->Doug v1d uses time machine
loop5: Doug v1 and Doug v6 -> ferry does not explode.

Doug v1 is a detective. By examining the path of v2, he is clued in a different way so when he uses the time machine, he is a changed man, in each time he is changed. So the time travelers are different clones with different mindsets. They will have different paths. So it is like Edge of Tomorrow but while Tom was retaining his memories, Denzel was accumulating the clues.

So the changes were small things, we can say that they used the time machine earlier and earlier each time, probably from minutes to hours or even a full day. By this way, we erase everything except the memories of the Doug clone. Early loops could be drastically different. First loop could be v2 meeting v1 even. That makes 4 prequels with a bad ending. A mind blowing one would be Denzel simply trying to rescue Claire. So he stops Oerstadt but ends up blowing the ferry himself with him in it so he could get a second chance(from his pov, from ours he is reaching a 5th chance).

[–] Mike716 8 years ago

Ahhh, I'll have to think about it a little more, but simply considering the movie as a journey entirely from Doug's POV, rather than an objective view of time, does seem to clear things up a little bit.

doubl3; that's what I'm trying to figure out, if the apparent inconsistencies are plot holes or maybe just paradoxes inherent with time travel. I forgot to mention the girl answering the phone, just like the ambulance, being another inconsistency that confused me.

[–] the_notorious_bid 8 years ago

Think of it like this: There's ALWAYS two Dougs (no matter what you call them) in the four days,six hours, three minutes, 45 seconds and 14 and a half nanoseconds after Doug goes back in time (or until one of them ceases to exist).

It's like an infinite loop... You could flow-chart it (sorta like board member vtasek did)

There's Doug (1.0) from the original timeline and Doug (2.0) who goes back in time.

Doug (1.0) goes about his life, normally, as we see, until he goes back in time and becomes Doug (2.0). However... We are not looking at the very first timeline BEFORE Doug (2.0) has intervened. Every timeline we see has been affected by Doug (2.0).

So, Doug (2.0) has already saved Claire, taken her home, left her there with her "morgue dress" and Oerstadt retrieves her, kills her and cuts off her fingers, sets her adrift before the explosion and she washes up against the tide. Admittedly, there doesn't seem to be enough time for Oerstadt to accomplish all of this, BUT... This means that everything Doug (1.0) sees which has been affected by Doug (2.0) makes sense. There is no plot hole here.

The ambulance, Beth's phone message, "U CAN SAVE HER," Claire's death, everything... This is what Doug (2.0) realizes when he begins to understand that he hasn't changed a thing.

"IF" Doug (2.0) leaves Claire at the house, Oerstadt will abduct Claire. Doug (1.0) will be called about Claire washing up before the explosion and against the tide and Doug (1.0) will visit her in the morgue just as we have seen.

[–] absolutenick 8 years ago

Vtasek pretty much nailed it. What we as a audience are seeing is the final loop in the story. Theres no telling how many loops prior happened but they all end up with time travelling Doug getting vaporized at the end.

Edge of Tomorrow is very similar to this concept...we just see a bunch of loops instead of only the final loop like in this movie.

Sorry Brother.

[–] the_notorious_bid 8 years ago

Why the hell is the ambulance there in the first timeline? That would mean Doug went back and was successful, but that's not the case. This contradicts the rules laid out by the note, AND the rules given by the two Doug timeline.

In theory, the ambulance should not show up until after 8AM Tuesday Morning (the day of the explosion). So, any timeline before then (as seen through the goggle rig) should exhibit "an intact structure." Any timeline, thereafter, should exhibit the ambulance (appropriately).