Just watched the movie, really enjoyed it but the thing that was bugging me throughout the entire film was how come none of the drivers used a souped up Japanese car? Because I was thinking cars like the Skyline GTR and Supra could be modified to get over 1000kw, they're much lighter, and (GTR especially with AWD) handle so much better than American muscle. lol, even that Asian guy didn't use an Asian car.. was it maybe due to the crappy economy?
share1000kw? whats that in english?
Fact is, americans moan about anything that isnt American. Especially european stuff (they prefer to moan about the english, COD4 anyone?) and so the only cars that can do anything are muscle cars that can't turn corners, but yes they can apparently according to film law
*beep* yanks
Oh, fair enough. 1000kw = 1000 kilowatts. Engine output pretty much.
shareI mean in BHP, I know what Kw stands for, just don't know how that translates into power
shareOld Mcdonald, a simple Google search would have sufficed. Here, I went to the trouble for you; it's approximately 1340 BHP.
shareFarking hell, that's a lot o' horsepower.
Like, your-gas-gauge-moves-as-fast-as-your-tachometer horsepower.
Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis!
LOL, it's you! Did you follow my previous posts here, or is this some crazy coincidence? And yes, that is crazy power lol.
shareSorry, didn't mean to come across as a stalker, but I saw the question about the cars used. I haven't actually seen the entire movie... might do that this weekend.
Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis!
Oh, nah not at all lol. Yeah, watch it the movie is quite entertaining. It would be quite awesome to one day be able to drive as well as they do in the movies LOL.
Have you seen 2 Fast 2 Furious? That move Paul Walker's character pulls on the highway, basically he's speeding down the highway, does some crazy 180 degree turn and puts it in reverse and is speeding down the highway in reverse, losing only like 1-2 seconds. WTH LOL? Is that even possible? If it is, I gotta learn to do that lol.
"I mean in BHP, I know what Kw stands for, just don't know how that translates into power"
Multiply the :numberofkw: kw with 1.36 an you will get the amount of BHP´s.
*beep* american hater. Close minded fool!
sharethey're much lighter
Ah, I guess. But you'd think someone would have a Japanese. Those cars were fortified and stuff right? If you fortify a lighter, faster car, it would be better for the race maybe?
sharethere are loads of classic 60s/70s european and jap cars still on the roads and used daily....I drive a 1971 Rover thats still going stong!
shareI drive a 92 Mazda fastback which is one of the most beautiful cars ever made IMO (Mazda Red) and drives round corners like it's on rails . It has ABS - which alot of American cars STILL don't ! Would it cope with loads of armour ? Probably not . However a Bugatti Veyron most certainly would , the only car to truly be 1000 BHP . You can all argue about KW conversions into BHP but the simple truth is there is only ONE production road car that is 1000 BHP - the Bugatti Veyron . European . I rest my case .
That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger
Ship your car to Tom Nelson, and you'll get back a vehicle that can out-accelerate and out-handle the Veyron for a fraction of the cost.
shareIf you look at the track, the preference would be something that got the best quarter mile (roughly .4 km). Acceleration would be a key component. So would handling, no doubt. But I'll return to that.
Traditionally, American muscle has always been dominant in this sort of acceleration. Even cars like Porsches which have routinely pushed for things like 0-60 mph (approx 0-100 km/h) had to ramp up the gears for it so that they topped out at too low of a speed to get a decent quarter mile run. Over the years, American muscle cars have still proven to be a very powerful model as aftermarket upgrades have given them performances that have still pumped incredible amounts of torque out of the solid old V-8 engine. Lastly, you have to consider that rear wheel drive/front engine design works wondrously for acceleration purposes. Few European or Japanese cars use this design.
Plus, you don't want something light. You want something that isn't going to get bounced right off the track in the event of a collision. Old muscle cars still have a good weight/power ratio so it would make sense to use them in this situation. You notice that nobody challenged Machine Gun Joe in a paint trading contest. And of course you don't want the thin plastic or fiberglass body of newer vehicles when the other guys have 30mm chain guns.
Now, you would be correct that the modern European/Japanese models do work better when it comes to cornering/handling. Aftermarket upgrades have given American muscle some much needed improvements in this regard, but it is still noticeably less responsive than its Japanese/European counterpart. In this situation, I think one would have to simply accept that cornering capability was something that had to be sacrificed for acceleration and mass advantage. Add to that the advantage of a skilled driver, and it's easier to see why cornering became the secondary consideration.
The way the track had those long but not overly long stretches, along with the amount of collision consideration, made the preference for American muscle make reasonable sense for this type of race.
Fear is the Mind Killer
That was a pretty sexy answer!
It's just when it comes to sports cars, the Japanese do have front engine/rear wheel drive configurations! (Supra, 180SX, 200SX, Skyline etc). And also, they've got pretty fast and easily modified AWD's like the GTR or STI.
So, maybe it is the lightweight that gives the Jap cars the good 0-100 run, but they still get really fast times. But yeah, I understand that the need for muscle; it's just I was thinking with fortifications, a Jap car might overall be better.
Oh yes, they have them. As a matter of fact, I had a '74 Fairlady Z when I was in Okinawa that had a 2.6 liter inline with 4.22 gear ratio at the back. It screamed.
But they aren't as common. And most people who would bring them back to the states preferred to drop V-8s in them (though I will be the first to say it wasn't necessary to get good power).
Think of it this way; for a sword, you want Japanese steel. For souped up killer street machines, you want Detroit steel. Makes for a sleeker movie.
Fear is the Mind Killer
lol, yeah if I had my dream Japanese car, I wouldn't even consider converting it to an 8 cylinder. The fuel consumption would be too much, and the cost, time and effort required would be better spent on other modifications.
shareOh yea, me either. I'm something of a purist. I don't go for the "all original" idea (though I have respect for collectors) but if I buy Japanese, it's Mikuni upgrades, if I buy a Ford its Fomoco and Edelbrock, and if I buy a Chrysler its "Mopar fortified". None of this "dropping a 383 Stroker into a '46 Ford" stuff for me. It's just the way I roll.
Fear is the Mind Killer
why no japanase cars ?
the movie is called Death Race , not Death Rice :)
>Lastly, you have to consider that rear wheel drive/front engine design works >wondrously for acceleration purposes. Few European or Japanese cars use this >design.
Really? Typical American cars today have mostly FF-layouts (like many other European and Japanese cars from 1980 to this day), but some more expensive ones (+ sports cars) still use RWD-configuration. Thats why there were 300C´s and Mustangs in Death Race - you didnt saw any Luminas or Sebrings (or any other typical people carriers) there did you?
Same thing here in Europe - Actually BMW only makes RWD cars, and most Mercedes cars are RWD too (not A-class of course, its a subcompact car so it is FF for a reason).
In Japan, many common cars are FF, but show me a Lexus that isnt RWD? Or Infiniti?
You are right in other things, but it would have been fun to see a Mercedes S-class there too, if you really need mass and BIG engines (W140 with 6l V12 :)
Too bad that 700-series BMW didnt saw much ´coverage´ in Death Race :(
I'm glad all the main "acts" were Detroit Iron...they didn't just need speed. They need a car that survives a bang or two...a Mustang or RAM will take that. Stupid Rice Racers would brake like glass. I'm from Europe and I see enough Japanese and Euro-Racers at home...I want American Muscles. If you ever heard a good ole-American V8 you know what I talk about (ever heard a V8-Hemi Six-Pack in a Charger or Challenger??...doesn't get better than that).
"Pizz on you and pizz on your law!"
- Rubber Duck (Convoy)-
Hemi's didn't come with Six-Packs. The most popular and powerful Hemi's (426) came with Dual quads. That's two four barrel carbs... The 340 small block and 440 cid's had the option of the Six-Pack. For Challengers this was only in the first year cars, 1970. After that there were a few 71's and then they went to the 360 in their R/T's until their final year in 1974. But I like your thinking about they way they sound! I had a 1970 Challenger R/T 383 Magnum for many years and there is nothing like the sound of a big block!
sharehorsepower is one thing...but after adding all the mods your talking a decent amount of weight added...now i would think you would start to worry about how much torque is put out to move that weight around quickly
sharehorsepower is one thing...but after adding all the mods your talking a decent amount of weight added...now i would think you would start to worry about how much torque is put out to move that weight around quickly
shareThis movie is more related to a demolition derby than to a touring car race so it stands to reason you'd want bigger and heavier cars/trucks rather than lighter better handling ones.
KS
And I'm sure no one would start a thread saying "They copied Fast and Furious!" if they used the exact same hero cars from that movie. Maybe they wanted to be...different?
A Mustang is the hero car for many Americans and can be modified to have just as much or more horsepower as any Supra or Skyline.
Nah, I disagree.
The thing with the GTR and Supra is that back then Japan had to limit their power, so the engines were engineered in a way that they could be easily modified by their owners, etc.
The Mustang as far as I know is built with all the power you'd want already installed, but I'm sure there are a few Mustangs that have been extremely modified.
Having said that, Supras, Skylines and many Japanese cars are much easier to modify and are more sensitive to performance mods.
You can disagree, but then you would be wrong. There are far more powerful versions of Ford Racing engine powered cars that produce excess of 1000hp then there are Supras and Skylines. We are not talking about putting bolt ons on stock cars. The movie specifically states it is using a Ford Racing crate engine and supercharger for around 800hp. IF you are into drag racing you would realize that Ford (and Chevy) based cars can produce much more then that if the owner so desires. These death race cars are made to turn and having over 1000hp would not necessarily be useful on a road course, but people with purpose built drag cars with tubbed rear ends have that kind of power.
shareI thought we were talking about the Mustang? I don't know Ford very well (I'm not American) but I don't doubt there are "far more powerful versions of Ford Racing engine powered cars that produce excess of 1000 hp than there are Supras and Skylines". But the Supra and Skyline (moreso the GTR anyway) can produce that kind of power and can turn well still, that's why the lack of Jap cars was confusing me, but yeah as you know there's been a long discussion about this anyway. It's been ages since I last read this thread and I haven't been bothered to review what was said though.
You sound like you wanna fight? Wanna fight?
You can put a Ford Racing engine into practically anything, however the Mustang just happens to be a the most popular Ford for racing. So yeah, we are talking about Mustangs.
I do not pick on the weak.
As in, you don't want to fight? Thought not.
shareNo, as in, you are the typical e-thug tuff guy who would not back up his words even if given the opportunity.
shareLOLLLLLLLLLL
No, I'd still say exactly what I'm saying to your face, it's just that perhaps if I did you could pick up on my tone and realise I'm just eccentric like that.
Do you seriously think someone who posts on forums saying "wanna fight?" is being serious LOL
No. I especially don't think anyone who types "LOLLLLLLL" or any variation there of in a post is to be taken seriously.
shareThen why'd you reply
shareThe same reason anybody does. You posted a "question" about the cars used, and I answered it. I can't help it if you can't deal with being wrong and decided to go the "LOLUMADBRO I was jus playin'" route.
shareLOL
Well I'm hungry and have stuff to do at the moment so I'll reply with proper substance later, just letting you know so that you don't think I'm ignoring you.
Alrighty matey I have returned
Thing is, well I can quite understand why (let's take the R34 GTR for example) wasn't the "hero" car as you put it, this is an American movie, they wanna appeal to the masses.
What was confusing me was why noone opted to use one. This has obviously already been discussed but yeah. See the thing is, for argument's sake, let's assume we have a modified Mustang and GTR which both produce 1000hp. Having minimal knowledge about American cars, I wasn't sure how easily a Ford racing engine could be modded and shoved into a Mustang. I did however know that it wasn't terribly difficult to soup up the RB26 to produce crazy power. There have been Japanese cars that have produced over a megawatt of power, as I've previously said but I digress.
My confusion stemmed from the fact that if you did have a Mustang and GTR equally powered as in this example, regardless of what would happen on a straight track, the GTR would outrun the Mustang on a race track like the one pictured in the film (AWD, superior handling etc).
I don't consider myself "wrong", I still believe the Japanese engines can be modified to produce more power than American engines, and if I find (or you show me) that there is actually a strong trend showing that in general Ford racing engines produce considerably more, then fair enough. However, even in that case, I'm quite certain that the Japanese engines are easier to extract more power from.
That's why I am saying you are wrong. Because when you have a big budget and need the most horsepower, you will choose a bigger engine - period. Technology is great but in the end there is no replacement for displacement. Nobody builds 1000hp Skylines to turn corners, they build them to drag race (or for bragging rights on the dyno). And in drag racing, the biggest engines are the fastest cars on the planet. Go look up top fuel drag racing. They use huge American supercharged Chrysler style V8 Hemis, not 2.6L Japanese in line sixes and they produce in the area of 8500hp OR MORE. Let's see your Nissan do that.. So with no limit on money spent, I can build a 4.6/5.0/5.4L Ford engine to a higher horsepower level then I can a 2.6/2.8/3.0L Nissan RB or a 3.0/3.4L Toyota 2JZ. Quadruple digit power is useless on a road course because to achieve it (on most import inline engines) you need a big laggy turbo. And a small engined car will have an extremely peaky powerband making it a chore to drive. A big displacement car with that kind of power would just turn its tires to smoke out of virtually every turn. The deathrace cars "needed" that power because they were weighed down with ton of armor and guns and bullets, but were still well under 1000hp, at least Frank's car was.
Now, with that said, you want to say that Skylines are better handlers then the typical Mustang. Well, the current Mustang GT has just been tested against the BMW M3 and its about equal, so assuming that American cars are only good for going straight is an age old stereotype that is pretty much over. The current GT-R is faster and it is a better handler then the current Mustang GT, but that is comparing an 80K car to a 35K car. Granted, the M3 is a 60K car and those two were compared, but I think most German cars are overpriced anyway. You think they should've used a GT-R, well why not a Viper or a Corvette or a Ford GT? Again, there are faster American cars that are good handlers that were left out too. They didn't use any Ferraris or Lambos either. They also didn't try to put armor and guns on Formula One cars either.
The bottom line is this is a movie. The producers obviously wanted a different look then the typical Fast and Furious movie, so it is no surprise to me they chose different vehicles. IMO, if I were in a death race, I would probably want an armored sedan with a big engine - something with some weight to it that was stable and could take a few hits. The best choice would probably be Crown Victoria Police Interceptor for something cheap, or a Mercedes AMG S class if money was no object. A aluminum bodied Japanese car like an RX-7 or fiberglassed bodied Corvette or a light steel/aluminum car like a Skyline or Supra probably couldn't handle being knocked around too much and hanging a bunch of armor on them would negate any advantages they have for handling. That is even if their bodies could handle it at all.
Bottom line is. Larger American racing engines ultimately produce more horsepower then smaller Japanese racing engines. Lightweight sports cars are poor choices for armored and armed demolition derby cars. This movie was not intended to be Fast and Furious meets Twisted Metal. A lot of great handling cars from America, Japan and Italy were left out of this movie for whatever reason, just deal with it.
Well, yeah it makes sense that they "wanted a different feel" from other movies, but I was looking for a movie-related logical reason. You seem to think that I have a problem with the Japanese cars being left out, and you'd be mistaken if you did think that. I just wanted to know why noone opted to use one from Japan, because far as I know, they do handle well, get good acceleration, etc.
See, I didn't realise that they were limited by budget, I just assumed that being in prison meant they had very limited resources, and the Japanese cars are cars that can get quite fast for quite cheap. But, if you say they weren't budget limited, why does it matter if the GTR is twice the price of a Mustang GT? (unless you were saying Ford could produce a superior car at the GTR's price). And you say the AMG would be best if money was no object. Mind clearing that up for me? Also, is the Mustang GT really only 35k? I don't know much about American cars.
I was confused because the Death Race engineers are fortifying their cars anyway, and I can very much imagine a fortified GTR participating in the race. But if they're so heavily fortified that they couldn't turn anymore, I guess there's not much point. So, I was merely trying to understand why Japanese cars wouldn't be an ideal choice for Death Race purposes.
When I said anything about a budget I meant in real life and nothing to do with the events played in the story.
I said the AMG would be best IMO if I were building a Death Race car, if money were no object. Those cars have expensive parts and are expensive to fix versus a typical Ford.
Those cars were carrying lots of armour and extra weight. They needed cars with heavy suspensions and loads of torque. Horsepower and torque are two different animals. The larger displacement and supercharged American cars with solid rear axles for the type of driving they were doing plus the durability factor all point to the fact that a high horse Jap car would be overweight and would kill any handling advantages it would have there plus they wouldn't have the torque to get all the weight moving in the start, stop type of race they were having. Plus American V-8's just sound way cooler! This was a muscle race, not a finesse race about handling and low torque high horse bee buzzing Jap cars it had to be big displacement, high torque tried and true tough American muscle cars.
shareWell, for an actual IN MOVIE answer (which I think some are asking for), I would think that even though Japanese cars may be cheaper as mentioned above, this movie takes place in America, which would mean they would have to pay to import the cars here. Why import the cars when you have junkyards full of broken down cars that you can deliver by much cheaper means? And yeah, you could say that there are GTRs in the junkyard as well as old muscle cars but as mentioned, they'd be weighed down heavily by armor (unless you're planning to go light, trust skill and hopefully dodge missles/weapons) and would kill the advantage a GTR would have.
So no, it has nothing to do with "Americans not appreciating anything that's not American" (and truthfully, I'm getting a little tired of hearing that stereotype as a lot of folks start their post with that and then rep up their own) and everything to do with cars that can take a hit. Although I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that putting a Mustang in the movie was probably a personal preference as it is a sweet car.
Just my one cent since I can't afford two.
Nobody want's to drive a ricer. Not even ricers themselves.
share