MovieChat Forums > Otoko-tachi no Yamato (2005) Discussion > One of the craziest naval orders ever gi...

One of the craziest naval orders ever given - beach the 'Yamato'

posted 16 years ago by Reality-Bites
15 replies | jump to latest

You can't help but feel sorry for the captain of the "Yamato," who was ordered by the Imperial Japanese Navy High Command to take the ship to Okinawa (which was being invaded by U.S. forces), beach it, and use the beached battleship as a large shore-based gun battery. A beached battleship is even more of an easy and juicy target than a floating one. OMFG that was criminally insane what they ordered the skipper to do!!!

Absolutely insane. The captain should have just scuttled the ship (first having disembarked all officers and crew), or just surrendered to the Americans by saying, "Here's the ship. Take it. We're not cowards, but we're not crazy, either."

[–] teddy-996 16 years ago

The Japanese war plan, from the jump, was to cut US civilian support for the war through horrendous American casualties, resulting in a peace treaty with terms favorable to Japan. They knew they were out-produced, out-manned, and out-gunned, and had to fight for a quick, bloody stalemate soon after the initial strike. They underestimated the resolve of the US people early on, but as the war progressed, the American people's support waned and Japan began to think they could achieve some, if not all, of their initial goals. Okinawa would provide an airbase within range to the mainland, and was to be defended at all cost if Japan was to salvage any part of their plan. Yamato's beached and unsinkable guns would have been a considerable obstacle for the navy to overcome without a high casualty count. As it was, American naval losses at Okinawa were extremely high due to kamikaze attacks. If there were also nine 18.1" shore batteries to contend with, one would only imagine those losses would have been substantially higher, and might have served the purpose of saving the war plan from Japan's perspective.

[–] FanFilmmaker 16 years ago

But at the same time, you had the largest modern combat fleet ever assembled sitting off shore, sporting over a dozen American battleships, with many carriers, cruisers and destroyers. What do you think would have happened if Yamato beached itself and had nowhere to run and hide? Every 5"-16" gun in our arsenal and every plane that could carry a bomb would be focused on obliterating her as quickly as possible. The Yamato was a badass ship, but even she would be turned into a useless pile of scrap metal in a few short minutes of running aground.

[–] teddy-996 16 years ago

But that's the point. If Yamato would have been beached, the American ships would have to contend with her unsinkable guns before depositing marines ashore. The beached hulk of Yamato would have kept American ships at bay for awhile longer, and add the risk of further heavy damage to and/or sinking of American capitol ships. Keep in mind the rugged defense the Imperial forces put up on Okinawa- US navy casualties were the highest of any battle since the country was founded, due to relentless waves of kamikaze. Had there been 18.1" shells whistling through the air to buy time for more of those doomed planes, one can predict an even costlier outcome for US forces, perhaps enough to force peace negotiations, or a re-working of the battleplan. As it was, Nimitz was eager enough to end the battle, and he might have pulled the plug upon the loss of a few more carriers.

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the Yamato's fate was sealed- regardless of it's underway status. Her mission was a shot in the dark, a flailing attempt to stop US forces from reaching the mainland. What the plan lacked in intelligence, it certainly made up for it in audacity.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

It's unlikely that the Yamoto could have taken out any carriers, as American aircraft and battleships would have eventually destroyed its guns before it could do that. However it would have prolonged the battle and cost more American lives. As you say, it was a desperate attempt by a once-proud navy to protect what was part of their homeland. They had nothing to lose so it was worth a shot.

[–] teddy-996 16 years ago

Yamato wouldn't have sunk any carriers directly, no, but her presence would have bought time for more waves of kamikaze, and would have kept flight decks split between putting up CAP for defense and re-arming bombers to silence her guns.

I'm not stamping my approval on the Ten-Go plan, just saying it was one of the few options available to the IJN at the time, and militarily, it wasn't totally senseless.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

I know, and I agree it wasn't totally senseless, just a desperate measure. How effective it would have been is debatable. I do, however, doubt anything would have brought the United States to the negotiation table, even if the Japanese plan had worked. Nonetheless, your points are valid.

[–] FanFilmmaker 16 years ago

Nothing would of made us negotiate for peace at that point, Especially since 42 we had put out so many carriers, including escort carriers, to sea. We were at a HUGE power advantage in all military aspects. But had Yamato made it to shore, I doubt she would have posed any kind of signifigant threat if but for a few minutes. At most she would have caused a slight delay.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

I agree we weren't going to negotiate under any circumstances. We had atomic bombs and we feared impending Russian military action against Japan would expand Communist rule. However, Yamato would not have been taken out easily once beached. It would have inflicted hundreds of casualties and possibly delayed the landings for hours. It was a huge, heavily armed and armored vessel. However, ultimately, it would not have changed the outcome of the battle. There you are absolutely correct. It was a desperate measure by a desperate nation.

[–] Master_X_3_1_1 16 years ago

yes, they should have realized after the sinking of the Musashi that there was no way of reaching Okinawa, and a stationary battleship has very limited fields of fire. Without manouvering it can't evade bombs or shells. They would have been better keeping it and its fuel at japan, where if it came under attack it could at least reach the American fleet.

"No man is just a number"

[–] teddy-996 16 years ago

Yamato was doomed either way and they knew it, so they rolled the dice on the long odds. Musashi was sunk in the Sibuyan Sea months earlier, much farther away than Okinawa. The route to Okinawa was still Japanese waters, though at that point heavily patrolled by US submarines. A sub is what spotted her and reported her position. Without that, she might have made it to Okinawa.

The IJN held the mighty Nagato in port like you've suggested. Didn't work out too well for her. She was bombed and sunk pierside, floated, towed, and steamed to Bikini Atoll, where she was the target for an atom bomb test.

[–] nd4spdmach4 16 years ago

but the yamato would have lasted longer beached then she did on open water, the US knew she was a hard target, and it took a combination of the combined dive bombing, and torpedo bombing to bring her down, if it wasnt for the torpedo bombers singling out the one side only instead of attacking both sides, then she would never have listed, if she was beached, she definately wouldnt have listed at all, and taken much more time and effort in bombing runs, to bring her down. again a not so sound plan, but for wat happened to wat could have, beaching her was a very ballsy idea, and a sound one at the time, although the captains order to use the main deck guns loaded with AA instead of the more then capable array of machine gun and AA gun implacements, that could have made an interesting outcome towards accomplishing his objective of beaching.

Life is the hardest teacher, it gives the test first, then the lesson after.

[–] Reality-Bites 16 years ago

>>if she was beached, she definately wouldnt have listed at all<<

If she had been beached right on the shores of the island, she would have most likely tilted to one side or the other. The sea-bottom next to the island is not level, so the ship would have rested at an odd angle, rendering most of her main gun batteries either useless, or at least very hard to accurately fire. I have no doubt that a beached battleship would have been even more of a sitting duck/easy target for carrier-launched dive bombers. The U.S. could even have called in long-range bombers such as B-17's to do the bombing from the safety of high altitude. Just carpet-bomb the general area where the ship is lying, and eventually you'll decimate her, with no threat to the air crews.

[–] llsdjs-1 16 years ago

Yamato and Musashi had more than just big [18.1" or 460mm] cannon. They also had the thickest fighting armor ever fitted to a warship.

First point, no ship other than fast battleships could have gotten into range of Yamato, assuming her spotting/rangefinding were operable and her engineering spaces were functioning.

If Yamato had been successful in reaching the shore of Okinawa and been vectored into shallow waters so that she grounded firmly, she would have been a very formidable stationary fortress. Recall that Corregidore withstood 37+ days of heavy bombing and artillery bombardment before fighting efficiency declined.

[I doubt B-29s could have managed 1% hits from any altitude above Yamato's AA battery range. B-17s and B-29s were capable of hitting cities, rarely factories or smaller targets.]

cheers, peterNaCl

[–] DoctorFell 8 years ago

yamato could also fire over the horizon, so spotters with a radio on the Okinawa heights would have increased her effect.

but that magnificent looking ship was doomed.

I fail to see why her voyage was not timed so the last stretch was done at night.

trashing books is like the Special Olympics even if you burn them all you are still a retard.

[–] schlob77 13 years ago

OP post is a PERFECT example of someone who is out of touch wiyh history and is applying today's morals and values to a totally different time.

It's likes say GEEZ why would a Union solider march in a perfect straight line directly at a line of Confederate soliders shooting at him. You need to understand the mindset of the people and society of that era, just because it sounds nuts today does NOT mean it wasn't perfectly normal 50, 100, 500 years ago.