Most women who are gay also never grew up on an island full of nothing but women. They could easily dismiss any relationships she's had with men as simply her being curious.
But that does a disservice to the character. Eliminating her entire history isn't going to help a lesbian cause. If that's the case it would have been changed when Gloria Steinem complained about the book years ago.
You're really counting some unimportant background character as an example?
You can't dismiss them either and Batwoman is hardly a background character. You also can't dismiss the live action characters from the TV shows either.
You can name 50 lesbians, and 50 bisexual men from DC alone? So name them all then. I also never claimed showing her being romantically involved with another woman is perverted. You either have horrible reading comprehension skills, or you're twisting what I said to further your agenda.
The point is I shouldn't have to. Why on earth would you start a LGBT crusade without knowing who those characters are. And I already proved a link to one.
and if I list them you still won't know who they are so why should I even bother.
I simply said that your requests for graphic sex scenes are perverted. It has nothing to do with the sex of the people she's sleeping with. Get that through your thick head why don't you?
Deadpool says hello and it's not "perverted." That's the part you keep moving that goal post around. And you have an agenda.
You wrote that you would only show real interest in this movie if they gave Gal Gadot some hardcore sex scenes with another female.
Use copy/paste to prove your point.
That makes you sound immature and disrespectful to LGBT women. It suggests that you don't view them as people, you view them as objects for your own fantasies. That's what's truly homophobic.
How does wanting to watch women make out make me homophobic?
That's funny.
You don't want to see it lead to a sexual encounter, and you think that helps the lesbian cause because you missed the
"B" in LGBT altogether by suggesting that Diana be a lesbian instead of bisexual.
Blue is the Warmest Color is a CBM?
And there we have it folks. Lack of knowledge. Yet you want to argue in favor of a lesbian love affair and then try to claim it never took place in a CBM?
Wow!
Also, wasn't that film a borderline NC-17? You're not going to see that kind of stuff in a CBM like this. I would honestly love for them to show Wonder Woman being in a relationship with another woman, but that doesn't mean they would need to show graphic sex scenes that would make the film NC-17.
I NEVER wrote I wanted to see it, but obviously I wouldn't complain about it. But you can't tell DC what they can and can't do. And graphic sex doesn't stop a film from being award winning and a cohesive and compelling love story. Your bias blinds you.
So now you think there's something wrong with being asexual? Who's really the bigot here?
You are here arguing that "graphic sex" is some how wrong. It's not.
Again, her kissing another woman would be fine. Hell, I'd actually prefer that over her kissing Steve Trevor. You've just been giving the impression that you want more than that however. You're making it sound like you want Gadot to get nude with another woman so that they can have some raunchy sex scene that would never fly in a PG-13 film.
You need to learn to use the markup function and copy paste my exact comments before you attack me with hot air and childish retorts.
Maybe you are young or something but adults want more than tween love stories. Again, I'm against sexual content in these specific films because of kids.
If Diana caresses Dessa's or Nubia's cheek in the next film that fine and harmless.
Anyone having a problem with sex period has an issue. Yours is being asexual. I have the right to want to see whatever I want and to suggest that "graphic sex" is wrong, is the rantings of a child. No offense.
But that's not what I want generally speaking. You could have just asked, instead of jumping to these ridiculous conclusions.
Edit: Just an FYI, I'm one of those people who absolutely despised seeing Batman have sex with Batgirl in the animated Killing Joke movie. Does that mean I'm heterophobic (if that's even a real thing) as well?
Why did you hate it?
I didn't like it at all, but the key is why.
Just answer that and maybe you can understand my point in a clearer way.
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mockingjay-07058
8 years ago
Hassan give it a rest. What is the point of you ranting on? This is not relevant to the story.
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ThisGuy4000
8 years ago
I never said Batwoman is a background character. That's why I clearly listed her and Montoya as good examples of lesbian characters in comics. My point is that there aren't a whole lot of purely lesbian characters besides them. I also don't see how making her a lesbian is a disservice to the character. She isn't defined by her relationships with Steve Trevor or Superman.
In regards to Blue is the Warmest Color, it looks like you're right about it being a CBM, but it isn't a superhero movie.
I also don't have a problem with sex in general. What people do in their bedrooms is their own business. I just don't care for seeing it in a CBM. It's as simple as that. I don't watch movies or TV shows to see some actors awkwardly humping each other. I have no problem with seeing romantic relationships on film or in comics, but that doesn't mean you need too throw in some unnecessary nudity. That's why I never got into Game of Thrones.
Regarding the thing with Batman and Batgirl in the Killing Joke movie, aside from the fact that it had no be bearing on the actual storyline from the graphic novel (which I did read, thank you very much), it also made Batman seem like a dirty old man, and it was yet another example of Bruce Timm's obsession with having Batman get with anyone with a vagina. Bottom line, that was a heterosexual sex scene, and I absolutely hated it. So no, my lack of interest in seeing a lesbian sex scene has nothing to do with homophobia, it has to do with me having no interest in seeing something like that, and you realistically shouldn't expect to see that either.
Edit: Here's an example of you saying that you wanted a raunchy sex scene or you wouldn't be interested:
Right now I have NO reason to watch anything from DCEU.
A Game of Thrones style sex scene would at least keep me interested.
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Hassan_Scarborough
8 years ago
I never said Batwoman is a background character. That's why I clearly listed her and Montoya as good examples of lesbian characters in comics. My point is that there aren't a whole lot of purely lesbian characters besides them. I also don't see how making her a lesbian is a disservice to the character. She isn't defined by her relationships with Steve Trevor or Superman.
Read your sentence again. You contradict yourself. We are all supposed to dismiss decades of hetero relationships just to make her a lesbian, which goes against bisexual people that you claim you are defending.
That's backwards.
In regards to Blue is the Warmest Color, it looks like you're right about it being a CBM, but it isn't a superhero movie.
I know because I've had the book.
I also don't have a problem with sex in general. What people do in their bedrooms is their own business. I just don't care for seeing it in a CBM. It's as simple as that. I don't watch movies or TV shows to see some actors awkwardly humping each other. I have no problem with seeing romantic relationships on film or in comics, but that doesn't mean you need too throw in some unnecessary nudity. That's why I never got into Game of Thrones.
It's "awkward" to you, not everyone else. And I doubt shows like GOT would still exist if that's all they were. Your obvious bias keeps you from looking past the sex scenes.
And GOT's scenes show nudity and movement but they are not "graphic" at all.
Regarding the thing with Batman and Batgirl in the Killing Joke movie, aside from the fact that it had no be bearing on the actual storyline from the graphic novel (which I did read, thank you very much), it also made Batman seem like a dirty old man, and it was yet another example of Bruce Timm's obsession with having Batman get with anyone with a vagina. Bottom line, that was a heterosexual sex scene, and I absolutely hated it. So no, my lack of interest in seeing a lesbian sex scene has nothing to do with homophobia, it has to do with me having no interest in seeing something like that, and you realistically shouldn't expect to see that either.
"Realistic" is understanding that people have sex and the lack of it, even in a CBM, suggests that said CBM isn't all that realistic to begin with. Which is fine. These are fantasy characters. Not an episode of Law and Order.
I didn't like it because Batman shouldn't need a reason to get upset over Joker brutalizing ANYONE. The mere fact that Joker is a criminal that harms other people should be enough.
Bruce Timm rarely shows Batman in bed with anyone. He usually adapts an animated film well and makes changes that help the narrative. He fumbled the ball on this one.
I don't want to see romance much less sex unless it's a part of the narrative. I expect to see Clark kiss Lois, or Trevor kiss Diana, or Mera kiss Arthur.
But I have no interest in anything past that. But sex shouldn't be used to push an agenda and yours is wrong on every level.
Diana is bi, that should be enough. She shouldn't have to be a complete lesbian to satisfy anyone and it does take away from those story-lines that are out there already. And you can't argue in favor of LBGT and leave out the part about supporting bisexuals.
Edit: Here's an example of you saying that you wanted a raunchy sex scene or you wouldn't be interested:
Game of Thrones isn't "raunchy" or really that graphic. And at 26%RT I don't have a reason to watch DCEU. I mean seriously. DC's latest offers are trash.
You just complained about a DC animated film.
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ThisGuy4000
8 years ago
So you didn't put me on ignore after all? And here I was hoping this argument was over…
Read your sentence again. You contradict yourself. We are all supposed to dismiss decades of hetero relationships just to make her a lesbian, which goes against bisexual people that you claim you are defending.
That's backwards.
It's not different from how Marvel dismissed decades of Iceman being with women just so they could establish that he's actually gay. Even DC went ahead and established Alan Scott is gay, despite him having a wife and biological son. I just think that it would likely be more progressive if they did that. She doesn't need to get with anymore men.
"Realistic" is understanding that people have sex and the lack of it, even in a CBM, suggests that said CBM isn't all that realistic to begin with. Which is fine. These are fantasy characters. Not an episode of Law and Order.
I didn't like it because Batman shouldn't need a reason to get upset over Joker brutalizing ANYONE. The mere fact that Joker is a criminal that harms other people should be enough.
Bruce Timm rarely shows Batman in bed with anyone. He usually adapts an animated film well and makes changes that help the narrative. He fumbled the ball on this one.
I don't want to see romance much less sex unless it's a part of the narrative. I expect to see Clark kiss Lois, or Trevor kiss Diana, or Mera kiss Arthur.
But I have no interest in anything past that. But sex shouldn't be used to push an agenda and yours is wrong on every level.
Diana is bi, that should be enough. She shouldn't have to be a complete lesbian to satisfy anyone and it does take away from those story-lines that are out there already. And you can't argue in favor of LBGT and leave out the part about supporting bisexuals.
Not everyone has sex, or is interested in sex, so there's also that.
Bruce Timm also may not show Batman in bed with other people often (kid's shows), but he does have a habit of making Batman an object of desire for pretty much anyone with a vagina. The DCAU version of Batman has either been involved with, or attracted the affections of Batgirl (ugh), Harley Quinn (she kissed him pretty passionately), Lois Lane, Wonder Woman, the Cheetah, and probably some others that I can't remember at the top of my head.
You're also right that bisexuals also need representation, but we already have some notable bisexual women in comics. There's Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Black Canary, Icemaiden, Mystique, Psylocke, Black Cat, and possibly Storm, Black Widow, and Mockingbird. On the other hand, there still aren't a ton of lesbians. That's why I think making Wonder Woman a lesbian would have been a bigger step forward than making her yet another bisexual comic book heroine.
Game of Thrones isn't "raunchy" or really that graphic. And at 26%RT I don't have a reason to watch DCEU. I mean seriously. DC's latest offers are trash.
You just complained about a DC animated film.
It seems kind of raunchy from what I can tell, then again, I don't watch porn, so I wouldn't know what to really compare it to.
And yeah, I did complain about a DC animated film. What's your point? I never said I would stand by anything DC makes. I also didn't really like SS or BvS either.
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Hassan_Scarborough
8 years ago
It's not different from how Marvel dismissed decades of Iceman being with women just so they could establish that he's actually gay. Even DC went ahead and established Alan Scott is gay, despite him having a wife and biological son. I just think that it would likely be more progressive if they did that. She doesn't need to get with anymore men.
You mean New 52 Alan Scott? Last I heard, New 52 was scrapped. But Alan isn't Hal Jordan. Weren't you the one dismissing secondary characters?
Miss America Chavez works better because she was gay from the start. But there is nothing wrong with Kate Bishop, who last I checked was rumored bi. Not sure though.
And I still don't understand why you hate men. I don't see the issue with Diana dating men and women.
Not everyone has sex, or is interested in sex, so there's also that.
Not everyone needs to be in a relationship to define them. So that's that.
Bruce Timm also may not show Batman in bed with other people often (kid's shows), but he does have a habit of making Batman an object of desire for pretty much anyone with a vagina. The DCAU version of Batman has either been involved with, or attracted the affections of Batgirl (ugh), Harley Quinn (she kissed him pretty passionately), Lois Lane, Wonder Woman, the Cheetah, and probably some others that I can't remember at the top of my head.
Lois Lane? From World's Finest? Bruce Timm might have produced that one but that was written Alan Burnett and Paul Dini and directed by Toshihiko Masuda.
And to my knowledge it was a flirtation between he and Diana, not a full on bed romp. And what's wrong with it if it was more than that?
You do hate men. Or hetero men at least.
You're also right that bisexuals also need representation, but we already have some notable bisexual women in comics. There's Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Black Canary, Icemaiden, Mystique, Psylocke, Black Cat, and possibly Storm, Black Widow, and Mockingbird. On the other hand, there still aren't a ton of lesbians. That's why I think making Wonder Woman a lesbian would have been a bigger step forward than making her yet another bisexual comic book heroine.
No, we have sexy characters that touch each other. Which is what I was referencing that I wouldn't mind seeing. I wouldn't call any of the above exemplary examples of representing the LBGT cause.
Lesbian and Bisexual are two different things and Diana can't represent both. And you contradicted yourself again because you just wrote that Diana doesn't have to be with men again.
I mean stop jumping from one thing to another.
It seems kind of raunchy from what I can tell, then again, I don't watch porn, so I wouldn't know what to really compare it to.
It's my point. You don't have the reference point because you are asexual. That isn't meant as an insult. Just a point of reference. Trust me it's nothing compared to porn.
It's the same as watching the fights in a CBM and watching the fights in a UFC pay-per-view.
And yeah, I did complain about a DC animated film. What's your point? I never said I would stand by anything DC makes. I also didn't really like SS or BvS either
As a fan of WW, I would go to see it regardless, but the trailer doesn't really do anything for me and I'm still not sure why it's set in WW1 and not WW2.
So it's not just "raunchy" sex that's an appeal. Even though there is nothing wrong with that, lol.
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ThisGuy4000
8 years ago
The New 52 hasn't been scrapped. They've been making some changes to bring it more in-line with the pre-Flashpoint comics, but the continuity is still intact.
Who said I hate men anyway? I am a man.
How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying that Wonder Woman shouldn't get with anymore men because she should be a lesbian. Not straight or bisexual, just a lesbian. Someone who has zero interest in men beyond some initial curiosity of seeing Steve Trevor wash up on her island. That doesn't mean she should hate men or anything, just that she shouldn't have any sexual attraction to them.
Regarding why the film isn't set in WW2, that's likely because they don't want to be seen as copying Captain America. Besides, WW2 has been done to death by this point.
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Hassan_Scarborough
8 years ago
The New 52 hasn't been scrapped. They've been making some changes to bring it more in-line with the pre-Flashpoint comics, but the continuity is still intact.
They just changed Superman from New 52 to the old version again. So it's not like some things haven't changed.
Who said I hate men anyway? I am a man.
And it's okay for you to attack my interest? Wow, asexual and a man who wants to see two women get it on but I have a problem?
You are funny. I needed that laugh.
How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying that Wonder Woman shouldn't get with anymore men because she should be a lesbian. Not straight or bisexual, just a lesbian. Someone who has zero interest in men beyond some initial curiosity of seeing Steve Trevor wash up on her island. That doesn't mean she should hate men or anything, just that she shouldn't have any sexual attraction to them.
You want her to be a lesbian for some obscure political reason, which with you being asexual makes no sense. That doesn't help the LGBT cause at all. Just you, in some warped fantasy way.
Regarding why the film isn't set in WW2, that's likely because they don't want to be seen as copying Captain America. Besides, WW2 has been done to death by this point.
She ends up fighting Nazi all the way into New 52. Not sure what you are going by. And not being like Captain America isn't much of an excuse nor does it really answer the question. Steve ended up fighting Hydra and then some aliens and a mad robot than his own friends.
Not sure how that will be the same as Diana fighting Nazis and this ridiculous deviation from the books but that another conversation.
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ThisGuy4000
8 years ago
They just changed Superman from New 52 to the old version again. So it's not like some things haven't changed.
They did that by establishing that the pre-Flashpoint Superman was still around. They're not scrapping the continuity altogether.
And it's okay for you to attack my interest?
I'm not attacking your interest in seeing sex scenes. I'm pointing out that if you want that stuff so badly, you're better off watching porn.
You want her to be a lesbian for some obscure political reason
Obscure? I don't see what's so obscure about lesbians getting more representation.
She ends up fighting Nazi all the way into New 52. Not sure what you are going by. And not being like Captain America isn't much of an excuse nor does it really answer the question. Steve ended up fighting Hydra and then some aliens and a mad robot than his own friends.
Fighting Nazis is one of the most overused cliches of all time by this point. And again, on film we've already seen the WW2 setting with Captain America. WW1 receives almost no exposure.
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Hassan_Scarborough
8 years ago
I'm not attacking your interest in seeing sex scenes. I'm pointing out that if you want that stuff so badly, you're better off watching porn.
Apparently all you want to see is two women kissing with no men involved. It defeats the entire purpose of your rant to begin with. It certainly doesn't make you any less a "pervert" if you are accusing me of the very same thing.
Obscure? I don't see what's so obscure about lesbians getting more representation.
It's pretty obscure if you want to dismiss bisexual people and aren't even a lesbian. It also makes you a hypocrite. I guess a better term would be shallow, because it lacks any substance.
Fighting Nazis is one of the most overused cliches of all time by this point. And again, on film we've already seen the WW2 setting with Captain America. WW1 receives almost no exposure.
We watched Marvel characters fighting each other in Avengers. That didn't stop DC from using the very same angle. You might want to rethink that one.
Changing a characters sexuality is a "cliché"
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ThisGuy4000
8 years ago
Apparently all you want to see is two women kissing with no men involved. It defeats the entire purpose of your rant to begin with. It certainly doesn't make you any less a "pervert" if you are accusing me of the very same thing.
You really are terrible at reading comprehension, aren't you? I said I wouldn't mind her kissing a woman, but I wouldn't really care if they didn't show it. I merely think that her being a lesbian makes more sense than anything else. It's not "all I want", it's simply something that I think would be a bigger deal.
It's pretty obscure if you want to dismiss bisexual people and aren't even a lesbian
I don't want to dismiss bisexual people. I even complained about how comics don't really have a lot of bisexual men. Bisexual women on the other hand, are a good deal more common, which is why I don't think Diana being bi is really that big a deal. I don't really think it's pushing boundaries that much.
Not everything comes down to having sexual desires. I'm sure that difficult for someone with hormones like yours, but me suggesting that Wonder Woman should be a lesbian has nothing to do with any fantasies, especially since I'm an asexual
male.We watched Marvel characters fighting each other in Avengers
That wasn't the main focus of the movie.
This argument is clearly going nowhere, so I think it's time to cut this off.
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Hassan_Scarborough
8 years ago
You really are terrible at reading comprehension, aren't you? I said I wouldn't mind her kissing a woman, but I wouldn't really care if they didn't show it. I merely think that her being a lesbian makes more sense than anything else. It's not "all I want", it's simply something that I think would be a bigger deal.
You want to watch two women get together. That's just as shallow a reason as anything else. YOU wrote that your were crusading the LGBT cause which is a farce. I call you on it, so you make up all this other nonsense to save face.
I don't want to dismiss bisexual people. I even comp,aired about how comics don't really have a lot of bisexual men.
Which is wrong but funny that you pulled Ice man and Alan Scott out of thin air but you don't want "bi"sexual, you want two women touching each other, lol.
Bisexual women on the other hand, are a good deal more common, which is why I don't think Diana being bi is really that big a deal. I don't really think it's pushing boundaries that much.
So we can put your LGBT crusade to rest. The sentence above clearly states that you have no interest in bisexual people or characters. And turning a woman that has been with men into a lesbian isn't going to further the cause, nor is a comic book the platform for such a thing.
Not everything comes down to having sexual desires. I'm sure that difficult for someone with hormones like yours, but me suggesting tights Wonder Woman should be a lesbian has nothing to do with any fantasies, especially since I'm an asexual male.
It's very sad that you hide behind "asexual" then claim to want to see two women touching each other. So the asexual thing is a farce as well.
That wasn't the main focus of the movie.
This argument is clearly going nowhere, so I think it's time to cut this off.
I agree because you keep moving the goal post around and it really is just a shallow argument on your part and you aren't knowledgeable enough about comic books to claim there hasn't been positive representations of lesbians in general and you are nothing more than a single man that wants to see two women fondle each other.
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ThisGuy4000
8 years ago
That sure is a lot of self projection for one post. No, the asexuality thing isn't a farce and I'm not really crusading for anything, so much as I think it would be more revolutionary if she did turn out to be a lesbian because that frankly would be more unexpected, and would likely give the lesbian community someone other than Batwoman to look up to. They've already hinted that Diana has slept with women in the past, so her turning out to be bisexual isn't really much of a shocking reveal.
And no, I don't want two women "touching each other", because I've made it clear that I don't care to see any sex scenes in a CBM. That's what you wanted. Take your self projection and your godawful reading comprehension elsewhere please.
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