MovieChat Forums > As You Like It (2007) Discussion > Is this the end of shakespeare?

Is this the end of shakespeare?


Don't get me wrong, the movie in itself would seem testament to the fact that shakespeare can be reinvented and still entertain as he ever did, yet the reactions to the film I think is a sad telltale sign of our times. Most would acknowledge Branagh has done a fine job as usual with the play yet it seems our contemporary audiences fail to do one of the following which is usually required to sustain something in this day and time: love it, worship it, buy it, hate it, gossip about it, wear it, eat it, or take one tablet of it before bed.

We have seen several attempts to apply the "updates" of modernity to allow accessibility to the masses yet I ask: is this neccessary if it is purely for this fact of appeasement rather than for the sake of art? I digress....enjoy


"The future is coming and the past is going. The present is only waiting or running in either direction." -Ara 500 B.C.

reply

Are you kidding? There was NO REASON for Branagh to set the movie in Japan - why freakin' Japan, why not Europe where at least the names and casting would make sense. This was not reinventing Shakespeare in a different cultural context, RAN by Kurosawa which Branagh almost seems to be ape-ing here is reinventing Kurosawa in a Japanese context, this is just silly and bad decision making.

Tom516

"It is not enough to like a film. You must like it for the right reasons."
- Pierre Rissient

reply

Wasn't there a Branagh version of "Midsummer Night's Dream" with Michelle Pfeiffer and Rupert Everett?
I liked that one - I'll avoid this one.
Branagh obviously made some very poor decisions here...I don't get it. At all.

http://www.philtered.net/~adam/app/prayterm.html

reply

Yup... this had potential I think. If only Branagh hadn't decided to go oriental with British and American Shakespearean actors. It's bad enough that we have Chinese and Malaysians playing Japanese geishas. This... this was absurd - I mean it's excusable if it's a high school play and you have no choice but to work with other Caucasian kids and vice versa in my case (living in Asia - I sometimes have to cast Asians as Caucasians) but for pitys sake its a big production number.

For my part I'd have set it on the French border provinces during the reign of Louis XV - at least there you have the ARDENNES (a play on the Forest of Arden) and the characters would be European.

OR in the forests of Colorado dressed in Levis - Duke could have been a FAMILY NAME (like in the 'Dukes' of Hazzard) so it would be Duke Sr. and Fred Duke, Rosy, Celia etc. and it would have run better, at least the context, race and language would be correct. It's not as hard to imagine a forest called 'Arden' near Aspen as it is to imagine one near Nagano or Kyoto.

I hate to think ill of Branagh as I usually enjoy watching his work as an actor and I do like Much Ado and Henry V. But this... there was no reason or justification for making it like this.

If I 'liked' it at all it's because I was reacting to SHAKESPEARE and not to the movie itself. I liked hearing (I wasn't even watching at all anymore, the better to avoid being distracted by the hokey visuals) the language IN SPITE of the movie.

Bad call Branagh,
Tom516

"It is not enough to like a film. You must like it for the right reasons."
- Pierre Rissient

reply

I hear you. I've actually been in this play back in school - I played Rosalind.
The whole thing is set in France for God's sake! WHY would Branagh do something like this? It's idiotic, and Willy S. is rolling in his grave.
(Just like some people would say that this play is homoerotic - pffffffft!)

"All the world's a stage And all the men and women merely players - they have their exits and their entrances..."


http://www.philtered.net/~adam/app/prayterm.html

reply

Actually there is a real forest of Arden not far from Stratford which was what Will was probably thinking of. There is no reason to imagine this play is taking place in France or indeed anywhere else specifically. In fact, the pastoral convention which he's making use of here is a sort of imaginary land full of happy shepherds and shepherdesses which has no connection to reality. When Brangh wants us to believe that his Japanese setting is even remotely plausible he fails. He would have been better off to given us a clearly imaginary country.

"We're actors-we're the opposite of people" - Tom Stoppard

reply

I could not disagree more. I have always believed Shakespeare to be one of the most creative minds ever, and I think he would be pleased with all of the creative adaptations of his films. The more creative, in fact, the better. Branagh has taken pains to try to adapt Shakespeare--not to make people upset, but to show that Shakespeare's themes and stories surpass time and place. I think Branagh and Shakespeare are one of the greatest "teams" ever.

reply

If Shakespeare rolled in his grave every time someone blasphemed his works, he'd never quit. He'd roll himself to dust.

Good frend for Jesus sake forbeare
To digg the dust encloased heare
Blese be the man that spares these stones
And curst be he that moves my bones

reply

Branagh didn't have anything to do with the "Midsummer Night's Dream" version mentioned in Angel-of-Isis' post. However, Kevin Kline was in it, as Bottom.

reply

I have studied As You Like It multiple times in many environments. I have performed in this production twice, once as Silvius and Sir Oliver Martext and again as Orlando. I practice Shakespeare in its original context: orginial staging practices, which means minimal sets, simple costumes, and a large focus on the language and truly deciphering the text. I have seen modern interpretations of Shakespeare that have greatly disappointed me. Though I am not opposed to modern interpretations, there have been some that stray so far from Shakespeare's orginial intentions, that it almost is not Shakespeare at all. For example, I have seen an As You Like It set in a post-apocalyptic world. Why? I have no idea.

This version of As You Like It I absolutely loved. Why NOT set this story in Japan? In a play where a major theme (I believe) is discovering who we really are and what that means, our true identity, I think the choice of setting it in Japan with many different races represented in the casting was a brilliantly refreshing choice. It forces us to see that perhaps that where we live and what color our skin is does not define who we are. It was nice to see a production that was not an all white male and female cast in a traidtional European setting.

reply

No, it's not the end of Shakespeare .. Shakespeare, like the great Greek tragedians survives good production, bad productions, updated production, adaptations, readings, modern productions, traditional productions, minimalist productions and elaborate productions because he is Shakespeare, his themes are universal, his language is unmatched and his humanity boundless ... no single production can harm him.

Personally, I though this one was lovely.

But you ARE Blanche ... and I AM.

reply

No, I'm sorry, this is simply a dreadful adaptation (although the acting is excellent, especially that of the two leading ladies, and the visuals are certainly nothing to sneeze at). I absolutely love Shakespeare, especially this play, and was extremely excited for the adaptation, and I was very disappointed with it.

reply

Wow, interesting comments from everyone here. I am a HUGE fan of both Shakespeare and Kenneth Branagh and thought this was a lovely adaptation. At the risk of sounding stupid, I had never actually read As You Like It before, and was actually planning what I was going to teach my Year 7 students in an upcoming Shakespeare unit when this movie came on. I laughed myself silly and immeadiately pulled out the play and started reading it (thus postponing actually doing any work for the unit - ahhh procrastination, my oldest foe). I loved the visuals - I've recently become fascinated with ancient Japanese and samurai culture - and thought the setting actually suited the play well. The acting was suberb! And the filming of the epilogue! Perhaps it's because this is my first experience of the play, and because the film bought together my loves of Shakespeare, Branagh and Japanese culture that I liked it more?

reply

I agree with you. I had not seen this play before and hadn't read it probably since high school. The people that are criticizing the setting seem to be those that are very familiar with the play, or already had pre-concieved ideas of how it should be set up. With an open mind to the setting being in Japan, this works beautifully!!

reply

Well, I'm glad it worked beautifully for you guys. For me it was just jarring, laughably jarring to have a bunch of misplaced Caucasians pretending to be Japanese dukes and that whole ninja attack at the start and the ridiculous sumo wrestling match were just - dumb, no other word for it. Branagh pretentiously trying to be Kurosawa or Ed Zwick. Well, I'm sorry, I've seen RAN, KAGEMUSHA and LAST SAMURAI and didn't even like that last one very much but at least Ed Zwick had the sense not to cast John Travolta as Katsumoto.

Don't open your mind too much that your brains fall out my friend. ;-)

Tom516

"It is not enough to like a film. You must like it for the right reasons."
- Pierre Rissient

reply

I'm almost finished watching this and I don't get the Japan-setting either. Once in the forest, it doesn't matter where they are, so the beginning part didn't make sense. The actors are good and I enjoy some of the scenes. I haven't read Shakespeare since college and As You Like It is not one of my favorites anyway.

reply

I think that some people try too hard to find some sort of reasoning for the Japanese setting... Why? I wonder... Why is it THAT MUCH of a pet peeve for them? The film is gorgeous looking, it's well acted... the story is beautifull... Why can't poeple just enjoy it whithout being SO nit-picking?

I loved the colors and the PD of the flick, it's a fantasy world anyways, to me, it works.

You know, Shakespeare works have room for change of settings, it can be donde!! It HAS been done already, just because for some reason people ALWYAS wants realism when it's not always necessary does not mean that it's the only way. Japanese settings must be = to japanese actors? NO!!

Some of the Bard's fans are really borderline extremists...

Diversity is what makes this world marvelous anyway ;-)

I, for one, loved the flick, I say BRAVO Mr. Branagh, keep 'em comming!!

Peace!

"Ride! ride for ruin, and the world´s ending" - Theoden King.

reply

- with bicycles, yet, and wth everybody mentioning Athens despite the fact that the film's locale is clearly Italy, why can't Branagh's "As You Like It" be done in Japan?

reply

[deleted]

I see the discussion has turned to more of a subjective critique of the cinematics in this film. Yet I originally posted the question as more of a philiophical/sociological one about Shakespeare's role in modern entertainment. Will we get less and less servings on the screen and leave Shakespeare for the stage? What does the future hold for Willy?


"Thank not the apes for your existence but the bananas." -Tral Cysum

reply

You know, it's right there in the opening credits; the caucasian actors aren't playing caucasian characters. They are playing Western Merchants and emmisaries who, as several of their real-life counterpoints did,have adopted Japanese mode of dress and cultre. In the period the film is set in, the later half of the nineteenth century, the Western World, and England especially, became crazy for all things Japanese after the country was (forcibly) opened for trade. It's not, perhaps, an Ideal setting, but it works, and Branagh's use of Cherry Trees is breathtaking. The biggest problem I have with the movie is Bryce Dallas Howard, who is very underwhelming.

Oh, and Branagh had nothing to do with the Michelle Pfieffer Midsummer Night's Dream, which I found cleverly concepted, but ineptly cast, Kevin Kline and Stanley Tucci excepted.


The Nameless

I am not what I am

reply

What's wrong with Caucasians playing Asian noblemen? Nobody seems to complain when African-American actors play European noblemen (even when they're absolutely horrible *cough*Denzel*cough*). Do I sense an extreme double-standard here?

Honestly! When I saw this play in Central Park, two years ago, there was an Asian-American actress playing Celia. Did anyone complain? Nope.

Funny how the shoe hurts when it's on the opposite foot. Let's try to be a little more open-minded, here, people. It's about the acting, not the race of the actor.

reply

I agree with one of your points, but not the other.

There is no problem with the "color" of the casting since the characters are not playing Japanese people but Westerners, as you pointed out. It is very clearly stated in the opening scene of the film. And the setting and scenery are beautiful.

However, I thought Bryce Dallas Howard was really great in this film. In fact, I thought all of the acting was great.



reply

Whenever Branagh sets his Shakespeare plays in another country or century, he never lets the new setting get in the way of the play.

Why does everyone get on Kenneth Branagh's case over this? They didn't mind Ian McKellen's Nazi-oriented "Richard III", or Trevor Nunn's 19th century "Twelfth Night", or Julie Taymor's half-ancient, half-modern "Titus", or Michael Hoffman's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (clearly set in Italy, with Italian opera selections as musical accompaniment, and bicycles as well, when everybody's always talking about Athens)?

What is it about the Japanese setting that bothers everyone so much?

reply


I TOTALLY agree with you critic-2.

People just get annoyed over Ken Branagh because, well, he is Kenneth Branagh, "today's Olivier". He is the one we pick on this turn.
It's ridiculous how worked up people get over his work. People rant about ethnic questions, settings, text cuts....and totally MISS what truly matters: the story, which, I must say, Branagh has ALWAYS tried his hardest to keep alive and be the centre of it all.
He never messes with it, and with ANY adaptation that he does, he CELEBRATES the particular story he's trying to tell, without ever re-inventing, despite the setting, the actors' accents, etc etc.

And that is what Shakespeare did. He set plays in Venice, in Rome, in Athens, in France, in supernatural worlds, always played by Brits. Are you gonna complain about that??
Oh, he also had women played by boys; why don't you touchy folk rant about that too?!
And he also used 'black-face' in Othello. Oooo, is Will a raging homophobic racist??
And please, don't say "those days things were different". That's not good enough.

Open your eyes and wake up: Branagh is the best thing that's happened to Shakespeare in this media saturated world.

We should all thank him.
Will would.



reply

AMEN! People don't realize how hard it is to get ANY Shakespeare movie made at all, and then they go about criticizing Kenneth for minor things. This movie, As You Like It, is, if anything, absolutely beautifully filmed with lush coloring and spoken naturalistically by wonderful actors. Branagh pours his heart into every movie he makes.

reply

albenizgb:

You seem to think that a general audiences's apparent lack of enthusiasm for this particular production of As You Like It "is a sad telltale sign of our times". I believe that this general refusal to "love it, worship it, buy it, hate it, gossip about it, wear it, eat it, or take one tablet of it before bed" reflects audience fatigue. Perhaps audiences are tired of Shakespeare adaptations that appear to take themselves a bit too seriously. Maybe audience cannot bear the weight of a director's seemingly inappropriate casting and production decisions. I think that many contemporary audiences are frustrated of being told that they should like movie adaptations whose language reflect a culture that has been dead for almost 400 years.

I love Shakespeare's works. However, when I watched the this production on DVD, I fell asleep several times. The movie did not interest me; the acting seemed very labored. The European "masses" who saw this production during its original theatrical run may have felt the same way. As You Like It is filled with a (verbalized) sexual energy that enlivens the play. Branagh seems to have reduced this energy to (even more) boring Masterpiece Theater. And that is saying something.






Beauty may be only skin deep, but arrogance and stupidity go down to the bone.

reply

I think that many contemporary audiences are frustrated of being told that they should like movie adaptations whose language reflect a culture that has been dead for almost 400 years.


I think you have perhaps hit on something with your comment on the language. Though Shakespeare writes in what is, linguistically speaking (haha), Modern English, he is definitely difficult for modern people today to understand who have not had some training and exposure to English that is that old, even with a more conversational delivery such as KB uses. Also, because Shakespeare liked to play with language, he can be even more tricky to understand. Visuals in a movie or play can only explain so much, so many people find watching Shakespeare exhausting, confusing, and at worst, unintelligible.

People might be drawn to a movie where they wouldn't normally go see a play because film has the opportunity for greater visuals than a play does. However, as we get more and more removed from Shakespeare's language and it takes greater and greater amounts of effort to simply understand what's being said, let alone appreciate all the nuances, I think that audiences are going to get smaller and certainly more specialized. The general audience who goes to a film adaptation based on a preview or societal pressure to like that Shakespeare guy might have serious issues in finding what's so great about him when they can barely get the gist of what's going on.

reply

I generally dislike Shakespeare plays done out of the time they were written for - I really haven't seen a good one yet!!

reply

Where to begin with my comments?

I will begin by saying that this past June I vacationed in London. I went to Skakespeare's Globe, the reconstructed Elizabethan theatre of William Shakespeare. I bought a groundling ticket, which meant that I stood and leaned against the stage as I watched the production. It was AS YOU LIKE IT. I had a fantastic time in the theatre. I was surprised when I learned that Kenneth Branaugh had made this version and immediately bought it. I have to say that I loved it; I laughed out loud several times; and feel that it captured the same sense of fun that I had in London in the Globe.

First of all, let's tackle the setting. Theatre in Shakespeare's time did not understand period costuming. The actors wore Elizabethan fashion. That means the actors in JULIUS CAESER did not wear togas. They wore doublet and hose. Hence, wearing Victorian and Japanese costumes is no big deal. Shakespeare himself did not worry if the costumes were authentic to the period in which he wrote.

Secondly, no matter where Shakespeare set his plays -- Scotland, Italy, France, ancient Rome, Egypt, & Greece, etc., they were nonetheless set in Shakespeare's England! In ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA, Cleopatra says that she will not be taken prisoner by Octavious and have actors "boy her" in Rome. This is a reference to the custom of having boys play women's roles, a custom that was Elizabethan English and not Roman. Shakespeare's plays, if you take the time to read/listen to the dialogue, are set in the England of his time. If he did not worry about whether his dialogue, plot, etc. matched the time and place of the play, why should we make a big deal about it? Placing British and American actors in 19th century Japan is no different than Shakespeare putting English actors in 16th century France. It was the characters and the plot that was important, not the "accuracy."

Shakespeare has been popular for 400 years. Miners, ranchers, and saloon girls of the Old West loved Shakespeare. 19th century school children read Shakespeare in their McGuffy readers. Civil War officers recited the "St. Crispin's Day" speech from HENRY V to their men. But, suddenly, no one can understand him! Please. Everyone reading this has more education than most of Shakespeare's audience throughout the last 400 years. Are you seriously going to tell me that, with a superior education, you cannot understand or empathise with Shakespeare's characters? Believe me, 400 years from now Shakespeare will still be read and performed; the TWILIGHT series will not.

Going back to the original poster's question: I don't think this is the end of Shakespeare. As long as he is read and performed, he will survive. I am an English and Drama teacher. Every year I make my 9th graders read ROMEO AND JULIET. At the end of the unit, my students may not run right out and buy his complete works, but they have gained an appreciation of his talent. I am not promoting my teaching by any means. What I am saying is that my students have been exposed to Shakespeare, been exposed by someone who loves his work, have been told that they CAN understand his poetry, and who, whether they like him or not, have come to appreciate the love, the lust, the hate, the fear, the faith, the violence, the comedy that is William Shakespeare. If only a few come to that understanding, (and I believe that more than a few do) Shakespeare will never die.

Spin

reply