MovieChat Forums > Sheitan (2006) Discussion > What, exactly, was the 'deal'? (SPOILER...

What, exactly, was the 'deal'? (SPOILERS)


SPOdiggityOILERS!!!!!!







Not sure I got the entire plot of the transaction they made with the Devil. The subs on the version I watched were not always translated so well. He asks the Devil for invincibility, and in return the Devil wants him to have a child with his sister, which he will claim as his own. Now, where does the doll stuff fit in? And for what purpose? Is the baby going to be the physical incarnation of the Devil? Perhaps it's meant to be left to our imagination, but I wanted to be sure I didn't miss something.

Other things I'm curious to hear people's opinions about - what is the relevance (if any) of Bart's hallucinations at the end? Is there a particular reason why Joseph seemed to choose Bart right from the beginning?

I enjoyed this movie a lot, but then again I like my movies twisted. Cassel seemed to be having a blast.

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Is there a particular reason why Joseph seemed to choose Bart right from the beginning?


I realized shortly after posting this that Bart was the first and only person to get bitten by the "evil" goat. It's right after this that Joseph makes his appearance...

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*SPOILERS* (indeed)

Hmm there could be some connection with the black goat, also we see it at the end in the dreamlike sequence in the hospital, the scene in wich the goat is taken urgently to the operation room... it may be a connection... but it's not yet clear to me.

Anyway I think I missed the point(s) too... I Don't see why the doll has been made from things that did belong to Bart, but it looks a lot like voodoo to mw, except for the eyes... Was this doll just a new toy for the newborn baby?
Why the midnight was so important? A begining of the new day? Like a prophecy?
Whid did Ladj left Jasmine behind? Can be really so scared after he drove over Joseph at full speed? Did Ladj knew that Joseph is invincible?
Did Bart notice Jasmine, when they were escaping, or he just suddenly remembered that they just left her behind?
I also wonder why Joseph used to call Bart, Marc... who was Marc? Was Marc somebody, possibly a previous victim?
To me everything seemed like a ritual that get's repeated each year or something...

And why the movie rating is so low?
Are there any other similiar movies (possibly french)?
The only movie I remember that's in similiar vein is Calvaire, I suggest you see it if you haven't yet.

Oh so many questons left unanswered, I wonder if somebody can explain them. Btw, great movie!

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took me some time
to figure out the whole story.

the road to the house:

like someone said
the goat is probably the devil selecting
the choosen one by biting him (not sure
as there is a reference to a previous short
movie called "the little beard").
but at the end the goat comes back in the hospital.
anyway the goat symbolise the devil in old iconography.


the house:

everybody is invited to eve's
daddy house, eve:" my dadd had a doll shop,
it was here he was stocking it".

the diner:

the girl (eve) asks bart " do you know what you are doing
here in my house near me?"
a moment after
joseph will say a story about someone ,
who was visited by the devil.
the devil said the child will be his own and he also
asks that the baby should receive an exceptional present.
then bart go to the bathroom,starts to pee,
and the sister appears with the doll in the mirror.


my conclusion:

the goat is the devil,
and bart's dream in the hospital
that they will remove his eyes
that's why the goat is here.
the goat will not receive the eyes.
but the doll will ,that the devil could
see his new bornt baby.


yes you can also watch calvaire
link here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407621/

some parts (bar scene in calvaire)
makes me think to rob zombi's movies
link to rob:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0957772/
(house of 10000 corpse ; the devil's reject)

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perhaps the 3 guys in this movie
are a reference to the three kings
visiting joseph and his son jesus
on the 25 december.

marc ? gospel of mark ?

beside calvaire you could watch this

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309832/

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good point...and actually the sister's/pregnant woman's name is mary...

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CHECK OUT MALAFIQUE,FRENCH HORROR.

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I will!

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Just checked out Malefique, it's a little gem flick :)

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*SPOILERS*

Not so much subject matter, but from a visual standpoint, this film reminded me a lot of Irreversible. It also stars Vincent Cassel, but be warned it has one of the most difficult to watch rape scenes ever filmed.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0290673/

We're your friends, we're not like the others man, really

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This is the worst and the most disgusting movie I have ever watched!

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"And why the movie rating is so low? "

yeah, I thought here we go again some lame-ass comedy, but hell, this was intelligent and funny. Maybe it just my sense of humor.


Just the end could be better, yeah Bart didn't know what was going on in the house, but most of the audience would be irritated, like me, by that fact that he just walked in that house because we al knew what was going to happen if he did.
I think Ladj left Jasmine because he was scared *beep* he did saw her and she was on the road, although it would been a whole lot better if she was in the house, or if they didn't see her, and then Bart remembered that they left her behind.

The thing about Marc has nothing to do with the story, it is just fooling around, I got a few laughs though, Vincent Cassel is excellent!

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I thought it was mainly just a gimmick fake-ending to trick the audience into thinking it was all a dream, make the audience happy, and then bring them back to reality again.

The doll stuff I took as just being a personal thing to Joseph. He was still following the story, but had his own personality mixed in with it. He created dolls for a living, so the doll thing came into play when he was doing the devils bidding.

(and I love that new word Spo-diggity-oilers. Almost as if Ned Flanders was a member of BLACKstreet.)

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The doll stuff I took as just being a personal thing to Joseph. He was still following the story, but had his own personality mixed in with it. He created dolls for a living, so the doll thing came into play when he was doing the devils bidding.

Good point, I'd completely forgotten about his doll hobby (obsession?). That makes it much less out of left-field.

(and I love that new word Spo-diggity-oilers. Almost as if Ned Flanders was a member of BLACKstreet.)

Hehe, I actually thought about Ned when I wrote it. I figured it was time to give spoiler warnings a bit of verve...

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That voodoo-lik doll is a substitute baby to be handed to Sheitan instead of the actual newborn.
Pretty obvious, IMHO, this kind of thing often surfaces in folk tales and legends of people striking a deal with Old Nick himself, and then tricking him into taking the soul of a goat or whatever.
Not that there's any evidence in the movie that Sheitan really is around. I could all be a figment of this fine bunch of twisted simpletons.

As to the hallucination sequence : well, Bart obviously is in shock, he's probably lost consciousness because of the pain and/or fear, and the audience gets to see what's going on in his mind then.

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Is Old Nick really that visually impaired? I mean, it sure looked like a doll to me, but I haven't spent eternity in the depths of Hades, either...

RE: Hallucinations - I guess I meant to ask if what Bart sees is of any particular importance, or if it's just random stuff his mind's producing during his unconsciousness.

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It could all be a figment of this fine bunch of twisted simpletons


That's what I got out of it. I didn't read into the whole 'devil' thing too much. The film presented a village/town where the locals are in fact simple-minded and can be very welcoming and helpful but at the same time there seems to be a certain wildness naturally embedded in their psyche which does lead to violent behavour and twisted ideas. A scene that perfectly illustrates this is the 'rape' at the hot springs. How their playfulness towards the red haired girl turned into something uncomfortably violent only to stop midway and reveal itself as a sinister joke much to the relief of the visitors. Sheitan played off the unpredictable nature of the locals to create tension. It worked wonders. I guess I have a much more realistic interpretation of what occurred in Shetian with no super-natural elements being involved at all. Ultimately, what mattered the most though is that I was thoroughly entertained while watching it.

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And nobody has commented what a funny stuff was watching Cassel as his own sister?

LOL

And...

WOW, Roxanne Mesquida is SUPER MEGA HOT !!! She ROCKS! She RULES!

Well acted character, the bite to get the victims...

The three guys are indeed the three magic kings: European, African, Oriental.

Watch also "El Día de la Bestia" (The Day of the Beast) by the spanish Alex de la Iglesia. Another gem about this matter.

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I would think a being as powerful as satan would know the difference between a doll and an actual human baby. But that's JMO.

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Constant-Reader:

I would think a being as powerful as satan would know the difference between a doll and an actual human baby. But that's JMO.


I agree with you. Thats just one of the many plot holes. You guys on this board give this movie way more credit than it actually deserves. I think it fails either as a mainstream or cult movie. And the rating (5.5) fits the movie well...

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/!\ Spoilers - sorry /!\

It doesnt really matter, but obviously it seems like Joseph made a deal with the devil and therefore gained his immortality.

(prove: the scene when ladj hits him fullspeed with the car - anyone would have been dead after this)

The theory of the goat being the incarnation of the devil seams very likely to me. (antique mythology + joseph's effusive care for marc)
The doll is, in my opinion, to serve as the devils but also the kids toy in a way (as you can see in the very last scene Joseph kind of treats it as some kind of pet for his newborn).

oh and flander's spoiler thing + joseph calling marc bart having a deal with lucifer......

http://www.poster.net/simpsons-the/simpsons-the-bart-he-devil-4003617.jpg

it all seems to make sense no?





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[deleted]

[deleted]

he said she is my niece

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Even more biblical references:

Eve offering apples to the group

Heck, the name "Eve" itself

The snake that Bart is frightened by and Joseph gets mad at him over

I'm sure there are many more I didn't catch. I will have to watch it again

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how come none of you talk about all of those children who run around the place. To me it seems like they've tried to give birth to the "anti-christ" for some time, but they never got it quite right. I know Joseph says that the freakish redhead girl is his niece, but maybe that's to cover up the real story.

On a second note: Eve didn't appear in the "dream sequence" in the end, when it seemed like we saw the beginning of the movie again. I'm thinking Eve is sort of the devil who's trying to lure them to go with her. She can't really be a child of Joseph and Maria, since all of their other children (if it's theirs) look freakish (inbred). And surely she isn't. I don't remember if she's there with them on the couch in the end, but I think I recall her NOT being there and instead we have the doll with Bart's eyes, so that the Devil can see his son?

We also have the connection between the Goat (the symbol of the Devil, as some of you pointed out) and Eve, since she drinks the goat milk from the udder.

Alright, that's my 2 cents. I loved this movie when I saw it exactly a week ago. It might not be perfect, but the visual style and the twisted story line had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. I liked how you never knew what they'd throw at you. I can't wait to get it on DVD (gonna be in my mail very soon :)).

And yea... how come this movie has such a low rating?! Many people must dislike it for some reason?

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I didn't love the movie to be honest, nothing that new. We have all seen the "AND THEN HE TOOK HIS EYES!" ending about one million times.

I however, didn't make all the religious connections until I read this thread. Joseph is of course Jesus' human Father's name too...

The Flesh and Blood Show

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I too agree with the devil goat thing...

I think Joseph did made a deal with the devil to be invisible (wich explain the car running over him and all)

I think Eve is temptation (apples sex and bringing everyone at the house) and her father that we never see is the devil... her father makes puppets he plays with puppets.... the devil plays with human like puppets right ? The film is like a devil manipulation done trough Eve to get is newborn at midnight.

And I also think all the town kids are Josephs children or the devils children... maybe demons even... some like that.

To me the cave is hell and thats why the water is hot.

But I dont get why Joseph was mad at the retard boy for putting bugs in the bed.. the all "what have you done"

I realy dont get Joseph breaking in anger at everyone... wich side is he on?

I dont get Joseph realtion with Bart either... and why did he needed specialy Bart eyes...

Anyway... thats what I like about this movie, I dont get it but I know theres something to get!


Im french... I don't care about my english spelling, deel with it!

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i think that joseph was mad at them for pulling pranks because he was trying to keep the guests calm and happy so the baby would be born and all would go as planned. the pranks made the guys want to ge the hell out of there, so he was angry that they "retarded"/inbreds(who i believe to all be joseph's children, the sister giving birth every christmas eve) had stuffed it up for him.

he needed bart's eyes because the gift for the new born had to be something special. since he is the dollmaker/eve's dad, a doll is special to him, but with bart's hair clothes etc it's even more special.

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[deleted]

I don't remember if she's there with them on the couch in the end, but I think I recall her NOT being there and instead we have the doll with Bart's eyes, so that the Devil can see his son?

Eve was actually there...she was the girl just to the right of Joseph on the couch (Jeanne was behind her, behind the couch).

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did dude say "negro"?
oh my...lol!
talk about antique...
anyway, i love otij's version with the 3 wise men visiting joseph the day before the "son" is born.

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Well, another clue that indicates that Bart is the chosen one, is when they're at that hot spring place. When that weird guy throws mud at Bart, Joseph rushes over to help him, but mainly focuses on getting the mud off Barts eyes.

This movie was very good! Not that frightening, but just twisted..

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Biblical imagery for sure. Expected this to be a total blood bath and I'm actually pleased that it was more of a dark thriller with sinister peasants and suburb kids. There are a lot of unanswered Qs here - wonder if a sequel is on the cards? My memory might be off, but I thought the deal with the devil was made after Josef had sex with his sister and impregnated her. He somehow knew the following morning that she was expecting and then the devil made the deal for "invincibility" in exchange for the child.

"I Don't see why the doll has been made from things that did belong to Bart, but it looks a lot like voodoo to mw, except for the eyes... Was this doll just a new toy for the newborn baby?"

Is it just a toy? Difficult to be certain, but I'd say it has more to do with voodoo and incarnating the devil's child. Josef was rabid at the idea of Bart leaving without providing all the necessities for the doll. I like the idea that the devil needed the eyes to see the child.

"Why the midnight was so important? A begining of the new day? Like a prophecy?"

It was Christmas eve, with all the trappings of Josef and (in this case, his sister) Mary. Three wise men. Eve, the predecessor of the fall of humanity, is somewhat left of field. But I think we all agree the plot was a little confused in places - I like that though : )

"Whid did Ladj left Jasmine behind? Can be really so scared after he drove over Joseph at full speed?"

Good question. Maybe a combination of panic (flight or fight response), anger over his girlfriend hearing her, shock - maybe he didn't recognise her quickly. But they did stop - to drop off Bart. That's what I do not understand. Why make Bart get out of the car? Satanic impulsion? Why would Bart then return to the house, knowing 1) they want to stab him with a sharp twisty knife 2) having seem Jasmine just down the road and wanting to find her again?

"Did Ladj knew that Joseph is invincible?"

Doubtful. He seemed to want to incapacitate/kill him.

"Did Bart notice Jasmine, when they were escaping, or he just suddenly remembered that they just left her behind?"

He saw her, that's why bart wanted to stop the car.

"To me everything seemed like a ritual that get's repeated each year or something..."

A lot of the behaviours are probably standard. They seemed quite imbred and Lovecraft-like. Plus the locals knew how dangerous Eve was - check out the response of the chick after she has her head smacked and Eve touches her face on the stairway. This ritual was specific to Josef's deal with the devil.

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This film is the complete opposite to everything in the bible. like a play on Christ, insted of Christ being born on Christmas...Satan is..?

The Bloody Italiana Blog
http://bloodyitaliana.blogspot.com/

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Carrying on the biblical references, Bart (Bartholomew) was one of the 12 apostles, who is depicted in art with a long knife & was also said to have been flayed alive & crucified upside down... not entirely sure what link this has to the film's character, but it seems to me to be more than a coincidence, especially with the other biblical references in mind.

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bugs in bed = plague of locusts?
didn`t see a burning bush but there was mention of a cold platter ( i think)

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I don't think there's anything supernatural happening within the world of the film, the simple answer to all that happens is that Joseph's a nutter. The sort that would give his sister one because he had a dream about the Devil.

His great strength and ability to survive being hit by a speeding car is just Chapiron playing with slasher/horror, 'is he dead or isn't he' genre cliches and conventions. The business with the goat is just aesthetics and scene setting, i.e the goat's resemblance to the traditional depiction of Satan.

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I thought Bart was the chosen one because well because , he had no faith in god , so thats why Jospeh chose him.

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Disagree. No normal human being can get hit that hard and not die.

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didn`t see a burning bush but there was mention of a cold platter ( i think)

Kinda...Bart mentioned that the girl at summer camp (Héloise, if anyone cares) had a vagina that looked like a "cold cut platter" (cold cut being a term for meats and cheeses on party trays, generally used for sandwiches).

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I think the dream/flashback scene is pretty neat and ties well with what happened in the film. It's all a symbol of what had happened to him before.

As Joseph carves into Bart's eyeballs, he loses consciousness and drifts into this dream. Thai was the first to go - he heads back into the club, and in "real life" as well (I assumed he was dead, or at least gone for the rest of the movie).

In the clinic there's a poster written "donnez-lui votre lait". Hmmm. Something to do with when Joseph spills milk on Bart? That was weird to say the least. Then there are a couple of guys, one which looks like one the retarded brothers that got killed in the motorcycle accident. There's a girl with a bamboleo who I think represented "Eve" - the girl is dancing and wearing the same clothes as Eve in the nightclub.

When he's in the operating room he's holding a symbolic "cold cut platter". When the "nurse" appears, the doc calls her Mary. Hmmm.

Ladj's demonic voice and his departure might represent his attitude when he cowardly fleed leaving Bart with Jasmine. In the beginning of the movie Bart's shown kissing her (well almost) in the back of the car, then later Ladj tells Bart to stop cock-blocking him.

After this he finally gets to kiss Jasmine but it turns out it's Joseph. Poor Bart. He was annoying but he really got the rough end of a pineapple here. I mean I'd rather be dead like Thai than be a "patient" without eyes in the house of lunatics.

As for Jasmine... I guess we'll never know. Maybe she found the ambulance?

-
love to shar3 recommendations.
& be sure to check out my comment history!

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You gotta be scared of the Devil alright.
Once upon a time, this guy was like you, fearless.

The Devil paid him a visit in his dreams, asked him what he wanted to be.

He replied: "Invincible!"


Later that night... he climbed onto his sister and *beep* her like a pig!

Real deep!

Next morning, he realized she had a bun in the oven!

Pregnant...


The Devil came back and told him:

"The newborn rugrat, on Christmas Eve,
"When the church bells ring 12 times,
"he'll be mine!

"You'll give him a gift, fool!" - The Devil tells him.

The gift for the nipper has to be...


So the deal is, the devil gave Joseph invincibility in exchange for having to give the baby a gift - the voodoo doll. That explains Joseph's behavior towards Bart and his anger towards the "family's" pranks, he had a specific deadline.

So I guess the baby is Sheitan's son = the Anti-Christ?

I wish I could say that this was all in that wicked "family's" collective imagination, obsession with dolls and such. But the movie is pretty specific in regards to Joseph's power. First he manages to pull the car out of the mud lying down. Then he's seen spying on Eve making out with the guys and disappears like Spiderman.

He grabs Ladj, a big guy, by the neck, almost killing him. Thai intervenes and gets served. When they're in the car, Joseph becomes a borderline Jason-like creature, smashing through windows and finally ressurecting. The devil had clearly respected his part of the deal.

One thing that was said here, about the kids. I don't know how many there were (12?), but it seems plausible that Joseph humped his sister many times before trying to please Sheitan but for some reason or another couldn't make the doll with the "right" person's spare parts (this turned out to be Bart, as indicated by the GOAT BITE). To be fair though he shouldn't have messed with the goat in the first place anyway.

Nice movie, but I'd really like to know what happened to Jasmine.

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If we are sticking the the religious reference thing, then how does Yasmine fit in?

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"Why would Bart then return to the house, knowing 1) they want to stab him with a sharp twisty knife 2) having seem Jasmine just down the road and wanting to find her again?"

Remember, Bart was involved in the motorbike accident. He had no knowledge of what went on inside the house. He only knew that he had been pranked in interrupted when he was about to get lucky. When they arrived back at the house, his dog immediately got in the fight. Bart never went inside or saw what Joseph was doing. Bart probably thought Ladj was insane for having run over Joseph and leaving Jasmine behind. That's why he got out. I assume he walked back on the road, but not finding Jasmine and not knowing what had actually happened, going back to the house would be the logical place to go.

I applaud much of the religious parallels people have come up with, as I hadn't thought of them all. I'm not sure the film is meant to be literal, however. Usually works steeped in symbolism are not intended that way. Much like those characters in the religious discussion at the table, Joseph has his own religion--he's a Satanist. He has committed incest and I think it's clearly implied that such practice is common for him, and one he also seeks to justify and use for his own benefit. A woman in the town could be his niece or daughter or...both. He's also clearly the "alpha dog" in the town. I assume Eve is the result of inbreeding, but just got lucky with her looks, and as such is very useful to Joseph and treated differently than the other siblings/cousins. I'm not sure Joseph is invincible. It's just another religious story or belief. The only thing that wouldn't support this is that he gets run over by the car, but that sort of thing happens as a device in horror films somewhat frequently, and doesn't preclude a more logical explaination. The guy is built like a house. I think, then, the doll is really just a construct for Joseph, or perhaps an offering, and not something Satan will literally be fooled into taking. We never see Satan in the film and therefore have no reason to believe he'll come into the picture. Also, in regards to Joseph choosing Bart, Joseph clearly desires and admires strength and usefulness, and it was likely apparent from the beginning that Bart was the fighter, the strong one. He had just come from a fight. It makes sense he would be the one Joseph would pick and admire.

And for anyone who like the placenta scene, another French film to check out is À l'intérieur.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0856288/

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Saw this on cable last night. Reminded me most of "Calvaire", as others have referenced. Both movies freaked me out. I could barely stand to watch them, but couldn't turn away.

Though the movie had blackly comedic elements, it should hardly be described foremost as a comedy, which is one of the genre's listed here and the one word the cable television guide used to label the film.

Btw, when dream-sequence Bart was in the hospital at the end, did you notice the goat's hoof on the instrument tray?

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Did anyone else pick up on the possible ethnic reason for him choosing Bart? Joseph calls every single one of the visitors by some sort of racial slur which they then shrug off as being the ignorant view of a country bumpkin. But Bart was the only white guy there so I though that was a possible reason for the choice.
the film was okay but a bit of a mess really.

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May I make the suggestion that there is no real significance with the doll, no pact with devil, great attention to snakes, and the goat is "just a goat", however throw in the creepy and deranged family, and the insignificant seems more than what they are.

In other words, the family is deranged and that's that.

Just a thought, IMHO.

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i don't get why people keep thinking this film is like Calvaire. Calvaire is a brilliant work of art. this film, however, is utter crap.

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