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hope finally.............. .....



it would be great if the Hindi version triggers a plagiarism row (provided if it creates a fuzz abroad)


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You should realize what counts as plagiarism in the first place.
What Sanjay Gupta did with Reservoir Dogs and Oldboy equals plagiarism.
What Mr.Murugadoss did with Memento is at best derive inspiration.
Watch Kaante and Zinda and tell me wasn't it possible to predict who the snitch was in Reservoir Dogs or answer why Lead Character was in confinement for 15 odd years in Oldboy.
Is it possible to say something similar about Memento after watching Ghajini? No.

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You should realize what counts as plagiarism in the first place.
What Sanjay Gupta did with Reservoir Dogs and Oldboy equals plagiarism.
What Mr.Murugadoss did with Memento is at best derive inspiration.
Watch Kaante and Zinda and tell me wasn't it possible to predict who the snitch was in Reservoir Dogs or answer why Lead Character was in confinement for 15 odd years in Oldboy.
Is it possible to say something similar about Memento after watching Ghajini? No.

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oh thanks for your eyeopening comments

one question first,have you watched memento first ?
now can you care to explain why its not a rip-off and its only a so called "inspiration"

well here is my point- rip-off doesn't mean just copying the entire film or the story
stealing the central concept i.e(the amd or short term memory loss concept) is enough for a rip-off

but ghajini doesn't stop there it steals many key screenplay elements
like tattoos,the use of Polaroid photos ,the protagonist seeking revenge thing ....etc

and let me clarify you with an examples for inspiration

nayagan inspired by "the god-father"

anniyan inspired by "se7en"

those are inspirations but ghajini stands as a proof of rip-off (actually it raped memento)


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well here is my point- rip-off doesn't mean just copying the entire film or the story
stealing the central concept i.e(the amd or short term memory loss concept) is enough for a rip-off

but ghajini doesn't stop there it steals many key screenplay elements
like tattoos,the use of Polaroid photos ,the protagonist seeking revenge thing ....etc

Memento was known for the depiction of a person suffering from Anterograde amnesia yes but the film was largely praised not for that but for its beautiful reverse chronological story telling.
The only concept from Memento used in Ghajini was the memory disorder.You can't predict the outcomes in on movie having watched the other.Apart from the tattoos thing everything else you pointed out was pretty much inevitable.Think about it,what would a person who can't create new memories do or be advised by doctors to do?Find a reasonable substitute,instant photographs,notes etc.
Keeping this in mind one can easily see Memento and Ghajini are two different films.But if you think a rip-off doesn't mean just copying the entire film or the story and that even one important concept is enough to qualify that film being called a ripoff then you'd be surprised to see how many films turn out to be ripoffs in Indian films.
Have you watched Sholay?What do you most remember it for?
The classic dialogues,the songs,Jay and Veeru's characters.
Well going by your definition even Sholay is a big ripoff.I remember this thread I read somewhere where the author points out so many inspirations for Sholay and not just in a general sense but something similar to what I see in Memento and Ghajini.The same sided coins,the jailer's character etc.
Here's a similar article until I can find the original post:
http://sholay.movies.deepthi.com/sholay-inspirations.html

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SOME SPOILERS!!!!

{Memento was known for the depiction of a person suffering from Anterograde amnesia yes but the film was largely praised not for that but for its beautiful reverse chronological story telling.}

well that just proves your SUPERFICIAL appreciation of movies
memento was acclaimed by medics and critics for its accurate portrayal of A.M.D and most of the film's plot was based around lenny's condition

regarding reverse chronology it was appreciated only for using it effectively in the plot narrative (i.e make you feel AMD)
so the reverse chronology was used only because it was needed for the enhancing plot(and not the other way around)

and no one blindly praises the narrative without seeing whether was it necessary for the plot nor the concept

{The only concept from Memento used in Ghajini was the memory disorder.You can't predict the outcomes in on movie having watched the other.Apart from the tattoos thing everything else you pointed out was pretty much inevitable.Think about it,what would a person who can't create new memories do or be advised by doctors to do?Find a reasonable substitute,instant photographs,notes etc.
Keeping this in mind one can easily see Memento and Ghajini are two different films.}

you seem not to understand the point but just want to defended ghajini

see in a film like memento every thing is centered around the basic plot (i.e AMD) it determines everything like,the lead roles behavior like use of notes ,Polaroid ,the narrative the situations etc.... so stealing it is simply ripping off

you seem to have a blind opinion on inspiration ,from the very first post you say that if you can't predict the ending of the original after watching the copy then its not a rip-off !wow what a brilliant interpretation!

memento's end is not predictable because it had such a clever twist in it
watching ghajini won't help because the director seemed to follow your opinion "change the end! and defend its not a rip-off"
besides its actually its stupid to compare the endings because memento had a classic one and ghajini had a plain absurd one(which i Indicated in an another thread)
so stop whining ghajini is original because it's ending was not a spoiler to memento's

{Have you watched Sholay?What do you most remember it for?
The classic dialogues,the songs,Jay and Veeru's characters.
Well going by your definition even Sholay is a big ripoff.I remember this thread I read somewhere where the author points out so many inspirations for Sholay and not just in a general sense but something similar to what I see in Memento and Ghajini.The same sided coins,the jailer's character etc.
Here's a similar article until I can find the original post:
http://sholay.movies.deepthi.com/sholay-inspirations.html}

one advice before i start, read the article you linked once again clearly
the link plainly states that sholay borrows general themes from Sergio Leone's Spaghetti Westerns
i never said using a theme(or feel) was a rip-off ,many films borrow the same themes like Quentin Tarantino's reservoir dogs,john woo films etc...........
you just want to convince ghajini was not a rip-off, thats why you simply seem to forget the difference
between using the THEME (feel) and using THE STORY or the central (not general) concept


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well that just proves your SUPERFICIAL appreciation of movies.

Whoa! Well this just proves you like to make hasty judgments.I only mentioned enough to distinguish between Memento and Ghajini and

memento's end is not predictable because it had such a clever twist in it
watching ghajini won't help because the director seemed to follow your opinion "change the end! and defend its not a rip-off"
you seem to have a blind opinion on inspiration ,from the very first post you say that if you can't predict the ending of the original after watching the copy then its not a rip-off !wow what a brilliant interpretation!

Any important element in a film being,like the ending for example,being predictable is not in itself sufficient to say that a film is a rip-off but it is definitely a necessary condition.I only provided Kaante and Zinda as one example of what a rip off is but as I mentioned earlier,you seem to like making hasty decisions.You argue that Memento's ending was not predictable because it had such a clever twist in it,well could anybody who has watched Memento be able to predict the ending of Ghajini,as a matter of fact,could somebody even predict a single element of Ghajini?No,because Ghajini is not a rip off of Memento and they are two different films.

memento was acclaimed by medics and critics for its accurate portrayal of A.M.D and most of the film's plot was based around lenny's condition
regarding reverse chronology it was appreciated only for using it effectively in the plot narrative (i.e make you feel AMD)
so the reverse chronology was used only because it was needed for the enhancing plot(and not the other way around)

see in a film like memento every thing is centered around the basic plot (i.e AMD) it determines everything like,the lead roles behavior like use of notes ,Polaroid ,the narrative the situations etc

and this is what you feel won't qualify as a rip off

i never said using a theme(or feel) was a rip-off ,many films borrow the same themes like Quentin Tarantino's reservoir dogs,john woo films etc...........


I just HAD to quote your post on what you think Memento was all about because I want you to read it and realize just how FAR apart Memento and Ghajini is.
I can only assume you keep bashing Ghajini because you were expecting it to be as good as Memento and what all this about me trying to defend a crappy movie. Memento>Ghajini,I never said that Ghajini is better that Memento,only that Ghajini is good movie,not as good as Memento but good none the less.
Remember this is not about which movie is better,we all know what that is,its not about whether Ghajini was a good or bad movie,that's just your personal opinion.This is about whether Ghajini was a rip off of Memento and its not.
If you still feel Ghajini is a rip off,I can come to only one conclusion.You liked Memento and have probably watched it several times still fresh in your mind.You probably watched Ghajini,once,maybe not even completely because you didn't like it(your personal opinion).
This is the only explanation I can give if you still feel Ghajini is a ripoff of Memento.
*Possible Spoilers*
Ghajini was hardly ever about the lead character suffering from memory loss.It was more of a romance movie with some nice action thrown in.The lead character was probably seen more as a normal person than as the disordered one.
***
Somebody might as well post as detailed summary of Memento and Ghajini side by side and let people compare and decide for themselves.
Better still Watch Ghajini again and then read the part of your post I quoted on what you think Memento was about and ask yourself if there is ANYTHING similar about the two movies.

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spoilers !!!!!!!!!



Whoa! Well this just proves you like to make hasty judgments.I only mentioned enough to distinguish between Memento and Ghajini and

well sorry if made it to sound it like a general statement,i just wanted emphasize that your evaluation of memento is superficial,i would still stress that point because you seem to perceive that memento was more about the reverse chronology (i.e the narrative) rather than its brilliant treatment of he concept of amd (the core of the story)

regarding hasty decisions -you seem to be more focussed on the fact that you want to make some sort of reply to all posts by any means, thats what makes you do some crazy posts every now&then

Any important element in a film being,like the ending for example,being predictable is not in itself sufficient to say that a film is a rip-off but it is definitely a necessary condition.I only provided Kaante and Zinda as one example of what a rip off is but as I mentioned earlier,you seem to like making hasty decisions..

you still emphasize your interpretation of "every rip-off needs to have the same ending of the original to qualify as one "-this is a clear case of your urge to reply in some manner rather than stating correct facts

so if one copies a film nearly every frame by frame and changes the so called "important elements which you stated (like the ending...) then its not a rip-off-now can you see who is hasty really

You argue that Memento's ending was not predictable because it had such a clever twist in it,well could anybody who has watched Memento be able to predict the ending of Ghajini,as a matter of fact,could somebody even predict a single element of Ghajini?No,because Ghajini is not a rip off of Memento and they are two different films

wait a minute what does that mean-first you argued ghajini was not a rip-off because you won't get memento's ending spoiled after watching it
now you are arguing the other way around-really something similar in them is your emphasis on the different nature of the climax
besides,what part of ghajini's end was unpredictable -can you care to explain , the only thing was the villain's identical brother jumping up suddenly (it was a W.T.F moment )

so don't just churn the same point -they have different endings agreed but don't use it unmindful & repeatedly for your replies sake

besides,why didn't ghajini have the same end of memento here are some points

*because it's makers didn't understand memento's

*they didn't have the balls to use it in their film

and this is what you feel won't qualify as a rip off
what was that supposed to mean-the same urgent reply i suppose

I just HAD to quote your post on what you think Memento was all about because I want you to read it and realize just how FAR apart Memento and Ghajini is.
I can only assume you keep bashing Ghajini because you were expecting it to be as good as Memento and what all this about me trying to defend a crappy movie. Memento>Ghajini,I never said that Ghajini is better that Memento,only that Ghajini is good movie,not as good as Memento but good none the less.
Remember this is not about which movie is better,we all know what that is,its not about whether Ghajini was a good or bad movie,that's just your personal opinion.This is about whether Ghajini was a rip off of Memento and its not.
If you still feel Ghajini is a rip off,I can come to only one conclusion.You liked Memento and have probably watched it several times still fresh in your mind.You probably watched Ghajini,once,maybe not even completely because you didn't like it(your personal opinion).
This is the only explanation I can give if you still feel Ghajini is a ripoff of Memento.


you can assume whatever you like -but don't just use them to make-up your posts

i never mentioned anything that ghajini is a rip-off because it was not better than memento

besides every rip-off will be *beep* when compared to the original

so don't use that as a point defend to defend ghajini

*Possible Spoilers*
Ghajini was hardly ever about the lead character suffering from memory loss.It was more of a romance movie with some nice action thrown in.The lead character was probably seen more as a normal person than as the disordered one

now we come to the main part of what is a rip-off

i hope you will agree that "a rip-off is using some other person's idea and making money out of it"

even if you don't your post will contradict -ghajini was mainly intended to be a love story but its makers used the concept of "memento" to sell their film

remember when announced -it got all the hype not because of its love story but because of the lead suffering from amd

so here i sum up my facts
*changing the end is not enough to qualify ghajini as original
*ghajini was more of a love story ok -but they sold it with the help of MEMENTO's concept
*INSPIRATION is using a theme ,not the core of the story to make money
*if ghajini was inspired from memento -it would have used its feel of a "neo-noir" mystery about a troubled protagonist seeking revenge
*but its a rip-off because it uses the core idea of protagonist with A.M.D as a selling point although it was not needed for the plot



There is no terror in the bang-
only in the anticipation of it



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you still emphasize your interpretation of "every rip-off needs to have the same ending of the original to qualify as one "-this is a clear case of your urge to reply in some manner rather than stating correct facts

Yes,but maybe I didn't make myself clear,it is important more so in the case of the film being ripped off having the ending as a very critical part of the movie,which is true in the case of Memento and the examples I provided.This was not a general statement and I hope I made this clear now so that you won't be bringing this up again.

so if one copies a film nearly every frame by frame and changes the so called "important elements which you stated (like the ending...) then its not a rip-off

Of course not,assuming what you said to be even possible because I don't think it is.

i hope you will agree that "a rip-off is using some other person's idea and making money out of it"

Obviously yes but you have to be a bit more elaborate here.More on that later in my post.

*changing the end is not enough to qualify ghajini as original
*ghajini was more of a love story ok -but they sold it with the help of MEMENTO's concept

Enough with Ghajini being Memento with a different ending already.I've already posted a brief summary of what Ghajini is indicating how different it is and you yourself mention that in the next line.

*if ghajini was inspired from memento -it would have used its feel of a "neo-noir" mystery about a troubled protagonist seeking revenge

If that is how Ghajini would have been then it would never be called as a movie inspired by Memento because that theme has already been used multiple times before.
And coming to you point about Ghajini being sold using Memento's "concept"
Given the fact which we should now agree upon that the only thing common is the lead character suffering from Anterograde amnesia,you imply that it is in fact the core concept of Memento.
The problem here is you think this is so unique to Memento that it is reason enough to make every film that has a character suffering from this disorder to be a rip off,not withstanding the fact that the rest of the film is entirely different.The fact is the maker of Memento didn't come up with an ingenious imaginary disorder,in which case your argument would have been true because they would have stolen something unique from Memento.The fact is Anterograde amnesia is a well documented medical disorder and MOREOVER Memento cannot claim to be the first to use this concept either.
What was truly unique about Memento is pretty much most of the rest of what makes this movie,from which nothing was taken by Ghajini.
Now you might argue(again) that the lead character taking notes,pictures etc are unique to the film but its not and I've already mentioned that in my previous post.
In fact in Memento itself the lead character RECOUNTS how another such person with a similar condition would take notes and stuff only his system was not perfectly ordered,which is inline with my argument that taking of pictures and writing down notes is something which somebody with this condition would generally do.
The only thing unique and ingenious from Memento stolen by Ghajini were the tatoos thing,Thats It! and Ghajini would have been better off without it! because it wasn't really put to any use.
Keeping in mind the intention of this thread,is this really a strong case to sue about?
And finally I quote

*but its a rip-off because it uses the core idea of protagonist with A.M.D as a selling point although it was not needed for the plot

This clearly contradicts what you have mentioned and what I agreed to what would qualify as a rip off .
I believe you are more of a victim of bad marketing and you felt deceived by what you actually saw in the movie with respect to what you were expecting from it given how the makers had marketed it to be.
Well,honestly I don't remember how Ghajini was presented and I'll be searching for its trailer to see how much of what you claim is true but we are going to see Ghajini(Hindi) promos in a couple of months time anyway and that is bound to be similar to the way Ghajini(Tamil) was presented.
Anyways what I think is if you didn't feel Ghajini was what it was marketed to be,the best one could do is make a topic on what Ghajini really is(setting aside whether or not you liked the movie) so that at least other people who might think like you would know what to expect.

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Yes,but maybe I didn't make myself clear,it is important more so in the case of the film being ripped off having the ending as a very critical part of the movie,which is true in the case of Memento and the examples I provided.This was not a general statement and I hope I made this clear now so that you won't be bringing this up again.

you just keep churning the same again ... "endings must be same "...i have clearly mentioned that ghajini didn't have the same end because they wanted to make money by using a happy and cliched ending (Or they didn't truly understand memento's )

besides memento's ending is quite hard to get ,so a rip-off it may not have the same (i.e the rip-offers couldn't have understood memento's)

Enough with Ghajini being Memento with a different ending already.I've already posted a brief summary of what Ghajini is indicating how different it is and you yourself mention that in the next line

read above red marks ...i have cleary mentioned why they are different and still one is a rip-off


If that is how Ghajini would have been then it would never be called as a movie inspired by Memento because that theme has already been used multiple times before.

so what is the point of ghajini's makers to make a film or to "make a film inspired by memento "

now you agree that ghajini didn't use memento's theme (which would qualify it as an inspiration)
but rather its core (making it a rip-off)

And coming to you point about Ghajini being sold using Memento's "concept"
Given the fact which we should now agree upon that the only thing common is the lead character suffering from Anterograde amnesia,you imply that it is in fact the core concept of Memento.
The problem here is you think this is so unique to Memento that it is reason enough to make every film that has a character suffering from this disorder to be a rip off,not withstanding the fact that the rest of the film is entirely different.The fact is the maker of Memento didn't come up with an ingenious imaginary disorder,in which case your argument would have been true because they would have stolen something unique from Memento.The fact is Anterograde amnesia is a well documented medical disorder and MOREOVER Memento cannot claim to be the first to use this concept either.
What was truly unique about Memento is pretty much most of the rest of what makes this movie,from which nothing was taken by Ghajini.
st.

AMD was not a "well-documented" medical condition but it rather a disorder subjected more research (they two are completely different )

and besides ghajini doesn't use memento's concept alone ,it also uses the same character development that was done..

Now you might argue(again) that the lead character taking notes,pictures etc are unique to the film but its not and I've already mentioned that in my previous post.
In fact in Memento itself the lead character RECOUNTS how another such person with a similar condition would take notes and stuff only his system was not perfectly ordered,which is inline with my argument that taking of pictures and writing down notes is something which somebody with this condition would generally do.
The only thing unique and ingenious from Memento stolen by Ghajini were the tatoos thing,Thats It! and Ghajini would have been better off without it! because it wasn't really put to any use.
Keeping in mind the intention of this thread,is this really a strong case to sue about?
And finally I quote


you seem to just follow ghajini's makers road .... the notes ,polaroid looks general because have seen memento ......

so you are saying that ghajini only borrowed memento's concept but developed its lead character independently using general themes (like notes,polaroids as you think) but some how it just turned out be the same used in memento ( by mere coincidence only)

The only thing unique and ingenious from Memento stolen by Ghajini were the tatoos thing,Thats It! and Ghajini would have been better off without it! because it wasn't really put to any use.
Keeping in mind the intention of this thread,is this really a strong case to sue about?
And finally I quote


intially you stated just that concept alone ,now you agreeing one by one !

they just didn't tattoos alone but also Polaroid photos

one question for you here "how did sanjay (in ghajini)got hold of all the villains photos after the incident"?

gajini not only would have been better without studying the lead's charater after the accident (as you said) but also without the incident

this raises the question again "why the hell was amd used then " -just as a way to sell their film

I believe you are more of a victim of bad marketing and you felt deceived by what you actually saw in the movie with respect to what you were expecting from it given how the makers had marketed it to be.
Well,honestly I don't remember how Ghajini was presented and I'll be searching for its trailer to see how much of what you claim is true but we are going to see Ghajini(Hindi) promos in a couple of months time anyway and that is bound to be similar to the way Ghajini(Tamil) was presented.
Anyways what I think is if you didn't feel Ghajini was what it was marketed to be,the best one could do is make a topic on what Ghajini really is(setting aside whether or not you liked the movie) so that at least other people who might think like you would know what to expect

don't bluff and make up all the "bad-markating" stuff

its not bad-marketing -its actually a way to sell their story using another filmmakers idea




There is no terror in the bang-
only in the anticipation of it

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