She, high on ecstacy, standing naked infront of her father !
Gosh, what have filmmakers come to there days !
"With great Power. . comes . . . great Responsibility".
agreed it was a awkward scene but it shows than she can't even feel loved from anyone besides her friends
shareThere is absolutely nothing in “Babel” about incestuous relations. But there’s lots of it in the sexually perverted minds of some posters on this board.
At the end of the film – in the scene, which you probably are drooling over – it’s Chieko who grabs for her father’s hand, and not the other way around. She is grabbing his hand and leaning her head on his shoulder for comfort: This tells every mentally normal person that she was never abused by him; never ever! Instead she has at last found her way back to him. And hopefully he will now learn how to be a better and more considerate father, paying attention to her just as much as her mother once did.
The Moroccan scene with the little brother and sister has absolutely no implications of incest. You don’t have to be a professional psychologist or psychiatrist to realize that. Common sense and some basic knowledge of human relations is enough. But, as the saying goes, “common sense is not so common”.
Take a deep breath now, because this may come as a shock to you: A naked person does not always mean sex. Most of the times it just means “naked”.
are you calling me perverted?
shareNo, I’m not. I’m responding to the OP, and not to you.
May I suggest that you learn at least the basic rules of IMDb, before you jump in and make a fool of your self?
"Why is it that men are so much more interested in women than women in men?"
Virginia Woolf
May I suggest that you learn at least the basic rules of IMDb
may I suggest that I don't care because I don't take it seriously unlike you
[deleted]
Maybe you should be less of an ass. You should be embarrassed.
shareWhat do you expect? Her signature quotes Virgina Woolf. She's bound to be an arrogant arse.
shareApart from that, do you actually have anything to contribute to the discussion here...?
"In your eyes, the light, the heat; in your eyes, I am complete"- Peter Gabriel
God there is a lot of tension on here!!! if everyone just watched good films like con air heated arguements like this wouldn't happen!!!
shareYou sound like an arrogant prick to me. Watching your sister perform a Moroccan titty dance for you which leads to a tugging session a few hours later should at least open the possibility of incestuous thoughts. I'm not saying I do or don't believe it, but you don't F'ing know for sure so take a chill pill and grow up.
shareThe Moroccan bit is incestous, the girl poses naked for her brother to watch her, incest is not just about sex, it's lusting for a relative too, and btw, nudity is erotic, and eroticism is sex
shareNudity is simply the absence of clothing. It has nothing to do with sex. Something can be erotic with clothing and it can be completely not erotic without clothing. Posing naked for someone doesn't mean you are lusting for them. It means you are posing. You can try to read into it but by doing so you're reading something that isn't there at all.
shareEh, MAYBE. The kid did go jack off after the fact.
But maybe it's just because there's nothing else to stare at. Limited options and all that. ^_^
Honestly! This is not facebook or myspace, let's all be adults here. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but let's keep our comments within the context of the movie and not get personal.
shareyou wont read this but there is literally a scene of the kid jerkin it after arguing with his brother about watching her.
Who do you think would win in a fight, Liam Neeson, or Liam Neeson?📷
STRANGE!! david, come on!! Why are you trying to make sense?? Try Harder!
shareWrong, the "sister" in the moroccan scene is described as being "just a street kid" and "she shouldn't be here" by the older brother. This would lead one to believe that she was taken in and looked after by the family. So she was not his sister.
shareHey dude cine40,
How many times you or anyone you know, hugged a 16+ years of "naked" daughter, sister or mother in actuall, to know that it isn't sex and just naked ???
Yes ofcourse, it's all in the mind, some bash it for the sake of society, while some defend and encourage it for God knows what perverted intentions of their own (wishing someday it might prevail in society for real).
"With great Power. . comes . . . great Responsibility".
It's called being a parent. Parents bathe their children yet neither one feels any incestuous feelings for one another. It's simply love and caring. Yes, she had grown up but in the state she was in she was very much like a child: vulnerable and in need of someone to care. That is where her father came in. Not to drool over her or want to have sex with her but to love her and care for her in her time of need.
shareThe OP never said anything about abuse, you read into that entirely on your own so who is the one with the "sexually perverted mind"?
And they didn't mention the Moroccan scene at all.
As a side note, neither incest nor sexual abuse have to involve actual sexual intercourse.
I was under the impression that the girl was taken in by the family, that she wasn't the boys' sister.
sharewell put!
it always blows my mind how people project their neurosis onto films, missing the point entirely.
Yeah, you make alot of sense. NOT......
sharei wouldnt say nothing, the moroccan stuff was definitely incestous. not even borderline but full blown incestous, to get naked for the sake of your brother and enjoy him watching you then later on he faps off to it. yikes!
Innit
How can you possibly come to the conclusion that there is no incest in the film, and that there is no implication of incest between the brother and sister in view of the fact that incest is common in Muslim countries and culture?
In fact, the government of Saudi Arabia has issued a statement that inbreeding should stop. In Iraq, no less than Saddam Hussein's first wife Sajida was his first cousin; in Iraq, 53 per cent of all married persons are consanguineously (blood-related) join. In northern Africa (guess where Morocco is located) marriages between first cousins, particularly children of brothers, are considered an ideal. There are other examples of incestuous relations and marriage in Muslim countries.
In such a society where such things are going on, it is apparently acceptable to be attracted to one's relatives. Besides, we don't know if the children are actually brother and sister, even if they may be called that. In countries such as this where the people lead such hardscrabble lives, children are often raised by relatives.
The implications of incest are entirely possible.
You owe some apologies.
You ask: “How can you possibly come to the conclusion that there is no incest in the film, and that there is no implication of incest between the brother and sister in view of the fact that incest is common in Muslim countries and culture?”
Simply because that I have the mental capacity to understand the difference between the *film* ”Babel” and the sexual mores of, what you call, “Muslim countries and culture”.
I, and most other sane people on this board are discussing the *film* “Babel”, and not the sexual mores at large of “Muslim countries and culture”.
Try to find some reasonably educated person close to you and ask them to explain to you the meaning of the concept “topic” and “issue”.
"Why is it that men are so much more interested in women than women in men?"
Virginia Woolf
Cine, incest or no, that scene is unnecessary. She should have been more sensible and her father should have covered her; for cripe's sake why film it like that?
share"There is absolutely nothing in “Babel” about incestuous relations. But there’s lots of it in the sexually perverted minds of some posters on this board. "
- Except of half of the story-lines in the movie.
Where is the "like" sign here?
shareThe moroccan scene with the brother and sister is definitely incestous. How can anybody not see that ? The sister undressed so her brother could see and the brother masterbate to that . The whole of it is a sexual act and if you don't thin so you must be in strong denial, you just have convinced yourself to believe that it is not .
shareThe moroccan scene with the brother and sister is definitely incestous. How can anybody not see that ? The sister undressed so her brother could see and the brother masterbate to that . The whole of it is a sexual act and if you don't thin so you must be in strong denial, you just have convinced yourself to believe that it is not .
shareWrong, the "sister" in the moroccan scene is described as being "just a street kid" and "she shouldn't be here" by the older brother. This would lead one to believe that she was taken in and looked after by the family. So she was not his sister.
shareI disagree with your statement about the Morroccan kid and his sister. He wasn't just looking at her to be curious. He was looking at her in a sexual nature.
---
I blame autocorrect.
You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas.
I do think there were some parts were uneccessary. ( The masterbation and Chiekos full frontal nudity) it couldve been told with much of that going on. However it wasn't incestuious.
Im the Alpha and the Omoxus. The Omoxus and the Omega
I do think there were some parts were uneccessary. ( The masterbation and Chiekos full frontal nudity) it couldve been told with much of that going on. However it wasn't incestuious.
I couldn't have put it better myself
"In your eyes, the light, the heat; in your eyes, I am complete"- Peter Gabriel
Thanks for your kind words Atm!
It sure feels good to know that there are at least two of us in the world who can watch a young naked woman in a film, without *instantly* and hysterically screaming SEX, SEX, SEX, breathing hard, and drooling like Pavlov’s dogs (and for the very same reason).
Since Chieko could easily have made sexual advances at Det. Lt. Mamiya fully dressed (like she did with the dentist), Iñárritu is obviously using her nudity for *other* expressive purposes; purposes, which are forcefully revealed when she breaks down in tears, and rests her head on Mamiya’s shoulder, desperately seeking comfort and consolation – not sex.
Iñárrituis’ directing in this scene is very skillful, and Kikuchi’s acting and scene presence is totally brilliant. To me, in this scene, she even outshines actresses like Louise Brooks when she was at her best!
Oh … talking about Mamiya … I never thought of this until now: Iñárritu’s way of showing the policemen’s attitude in Morocco, US, Mexico and Japan. The Japanese police officers are shown as intelligent, polite, considerate and helpful, while the others … well, we all know. Hmm… have to think more about this.
All the best!
cine
"Why is it that men are so much more interested in women than women in men?"
Virginia Woolf
do we all also remember that she got naked for the police officer, not her father!
she was probably going to get changed, but being deaf and all she would have not know her father was home, especially standing out on the balcony. All she was wanting was for someone to love her and make her feel secure about who she is, because a majority of people were discriminating against her.
When she sees her father, she beaks down simply because she barley has anyone else who truly cares about her. sure her friends care about her, but remember how they pretty much ditched her at the rave party.
all she is wanting is comfort. and it just so happened that she was naked when her dad got home.
big deal!
all of those people who thought it was perverted are clearly *beep* in the head!
Come out from under those rocks you live under, and look around. there are REAL people out there who actually care about REAL issues, and this film portrays only a slice of them.
How is it incestuous?! At her most vulnerable, when all her barriers were down, she finally made a connection with her father. Far from being an incestuous ending it's a promising and hopeful one.
shareOh shut up, close. It doesn't matter that she "just happened to be naked", that's not a normal response for a young girl to have, and her dad's reaction wasn't normal either. Not perverted, but it made no damn sense.
shareHey Ditzo! it's pretty obvious she began to break down when he refused to have sex with her! That's why she rested her head on him as she was crying, Gee! Sorry about the Ditzo part but your "know it all" attitude is annoying!
shareI think both scenes were not incestous. When you are born, aou are born naked, and mother and father sees you like this ofor a long time. A NORMAL mother and father when they see naked child, see only their child.
And second scene is that young boys and girls all around the world like to show each other their differences and that's normal. I think the point of that scene was to show us how in muslim world things like that doesn't have the children's innocence and curiousity in it and could be punished.
I agree that the last scene with Cheiko and her father was not incestuous. Throughout the movie, Cheiko is shown to be like a baby or child, most notably how she is unable to control her urges. She throws temper tantrums, like in the volleyball game. She feels a sexual urge, so she goes after every guy she sees. Later, when she is at her most vulnerable, naked, she cries, realizing how pathetically desperate she has been acting. She holds the detective's hands up to her face and sucks his finger.
At the end of the movie, she is a sad, pale, broken-down creature, as vulnerable and delicate as a baby, needing her father to love her and take care of her. If you see anything sexual about it, you are COMPLETELY misreading it. Nudity does not have to be about sex.
"A NORMAL mother and father when they see naked child, see only their child"
A NORMAL mother and father recognize the difference between a baby and a YOUNG ADULT, and don't trespass or have any wish to invade their kid's privacy. Geez *beep* louise.
No it was not in any way incestuous, the scene taken within the context of the story was a father emotionally connecting with his daughter for the first time in her life.
Her attempts to gain attention and affection from other males she came in contact with was a symptom of the starvation of her fathers love.
The other dimension to Cheiko was that due to her deafness she felt different and disconnected from other people, not just her father but this could have been enhanced his remoteness, emotional and physical, (the same remoteness which drove the wife to suicide through loneliness and isolation) anyway this was another reason Cheiko displayed her body to the cop, as if saying,like this I am normal, I am just the same as any other woman.
It was a powerful film!
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Let me guess: The thread starter is American? "Oh mi gosh, a mentally unstable child is contemplating a suicide, when her father walks in, knowing what his only child is going through, what with her mother's recent suicide and all... OH MI GOSH, don't tell me the father dares to hug his own child in these circumstances, he should have told her to go get dressed and never hang around naked again, or else!"
shareDon't you know Japanese families bathe together?
shareAlso, if hugging someone who's naked is automatically sexual, presumably the OP thinks the detective took advantage of her? She throws herself at him, he pushes her away... then *comforts her* when she breaks down in tears, the perverted *beep*!
shareHow about covering her, Mururoa? Good Lord.
shareNope disagree.
She was comtemplating suicide and he knew it. That was a love hug baby not sex.
Still time to move on - really!
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Incest is hawt
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pytomineastenders/signatures.html
The IMDb EE kliq