Utah


What's in their drinking water? This is the most vile consentration of stupidity ever in one film. I really have a hard time beliveing this is real, and if it is, there's no hope for humanity.

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Yes, Utah County (where this takes place) is shockingly narrow minded and extremist, but don't think Salt Lake City is the same way. It isn't. It is overwhelmingly Democrat and Liberal in a very red state. It also is increasingly diverse, both ethnically and religiously (less than 40 percent LDS)and also boasts a large gay community and a liberal, gay-friendly mayor. Yes, I know what the stereotypes are, but in the case of SLC, you'd be surprised. Now the Provo/Orem area, that's a whole other story....

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"UTAH"- apparently a derivative of the Biblical name "Judah"-

Judah was one of Jacob's first four son's born of Leah, and the only one not described in negative terms at the end of Genesis:

"Judah art he whom thy bretheren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thiNe enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he crouched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come ("Shiloh"- area north of Jerusalem); and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

BINDING his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine, he washed his garments in wine, and his clothe's in the blood of grapes;

His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk."

Judah is distinguished by his own chapter in Genesis, where he fathers three son's- two which die mysteriously and then he apparently takes one of their wives for his own-

The later Tribe of Judah seems to be the primary warrior tribe of the ancient hebrews in scripture, and then later an entity of it's own when Israel and Judah have a rift after King Solomon- ("The golden vessel King")

I personally think the rift metaphorically describes an ancient nuclear Armageddon, first described in scripture as some sort of conflict over the monument "Ed"- which I believe is the Sphinx, which denotes this "lion of Judah"

At the end of the Bible in Revelations, the "Lion of Judah" is described as the only one who can break the Seven Seals and open God's holy book and read the inscriptions contained within. At some point in time, Judah alone is the sole survivor of some kind of biblical "week" or cycle of seven.

I think the name of the state is used in reversal- After exploring the Mormon religion, and based upon a lot of starnge events in my own life, I believe that that church is very Aryan oriented- and actually moreconcerned with the things of Solomon than with salvation. This is equilvelent in scriptural terms with "the kingdom of the north" described in Daniel- except that- Judah itself was the southern kingdom- once pushed back halfway across Africa, but apparently able to muster more military numbers because of NOT practicing Aryanism.

In the 2004 elections- Utah led all states in percentage of voting for George Bush with 71.0 percent of the vote- according to the 2005 Time Almanac

Utah seems to be like Nevada- strangely lacking in metropolitan areas, and probably for the political purposes of Lord NeVader

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The split between Judah and the rest of Israel is described in 1 KINGS Chapter 12, when Rehoboam, the son of Solomon was to become king of Israel:

"... all the congregation of Israel came and Spake unto Rehoboam, saying, Thy father made our yoke grievous: now therefore make thou the grievous service of thy father, and his yoke heavy yoke which he put upon us lighter, and we will serve thee.

And king Rehoboam consulted with the old men that stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived and said: How do ye advise that I may answer this people? And they spake unto him, saying If thou wilt be a servant unto this people this day, and wilt serve them, and answer them, and speak good words to them, then they will be thy servants forever.

But he forsook the council of the old men, which they had given them, and consulted with the young men that were grown up with him....

And he said unto them, What counsel give ye that we may answer this people, who have spoken to me, saying Make the yoke which thy father did put upon us lighter?"

And the young men told him to answer them saying "My little finger shall be thicker than my fathers loins. And whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will ad to your yoke, my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions."

And so when he hearkened not unto the people and answered them roughly the people of Israel rebelled and followed Jeroboam saying "To your tents O Istael" while Judah followed Rehoboam.

A lot of people, myself included, think of war itself as a heavy yoke to place on the people of the nations involved. It certainly tends to polarize people in the way that Israel became polarized. And we seem to be in more of an era where our political leaders hope to Score Peons, and the system seems inflexible to necessary change.

I haven't yet been able to see this film but plan to. Other than that, I personally have experienced a lot of repression lately, a lot of opposition.

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[deleted]

There's a doubt that we'd have any teeth if it weren't for men like Jim Bridger-

"so lift your glasses high
as long as there's a USA don't let his memory die"-
Johny Horton's "Ballad of Jim Bridger

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Ah religious intolerance. Isn't it refreshing to see that liberals are human too? lol.

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I'm only intolerant of the Aryan, white supremicist aspect of the Mormon religion- if it weren't for that- I'd have probably been baptised into that faith- I'm not sure that church can get past that- it has many good aspects otherwise

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Amen to Christopher's remarks about every college (and community) having someone who will look out for the students' (and families) interests. It's heartwarming to know there is one place in this world that stands for decency and morality. My husband thinks we should move there someday!

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Jesus- Michael Moore is not a demon- he doesn't even try to incite public reaction like Hannity- Trying to stop someone like that from speaking at a college- like other colleges who have all types of speakers- is definitely an infringement on First Amendment rights-

When I saw this, I thought the petition student Shawn (lot's of Shawn's here, huh?) had a valid point at first about the appearance money- (a normal appaearance fee and probably too much, smacking of elitism no matter what the persuasion), but when it was revealed that it wasn't actually publicly subsidised money from the school, but money raised from ticket sales and the student association- that argument kinda fell to the ground-

The man suing the university had no business to do so- he's not even an alum, or associated with the school other than living in the same town. The cartoon morality everyone is praising here is neither practical or even christian-
"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged" Just because Moore is against a war and against George Bush doesn't make him indecent or immoral.

Moore had every right to appear- and the fuss probably only sold more tickets.
Hannity still bothers me much more- and weren't his expenses higher?
If someone believes in their own message, they'd probably speak for free otherwise, or at least for no more than traveling expenses.
One of the better things about Mormon philosophy is the belief in doing things for the good of God and mankind, and not solely for financial gain. If I were Mormon, I wouldn't want to claim the reactionary, mocking crowd that Hannity had stirred up as my own.

It's much easier for a reactionary majority to infringe on the rights of others than the reverse- Just how has staid Orem Utah been subverted by Moore's short speech?

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Ok, I might have biased opinion about this topic, because I am a Provo/Orem native, but hey, I was there when all this happened. Maybe it's because I didn't really care who came to UVSC, (Sure, Michael Moore is a jerk, I sure wasn't thrilled that he was coming, but then, the same thing can be said about Hannity) but I this has been blown WAY out of proportion. I just didn't get the sense that all hell was breaking loose in Utah County. For about a week, there were protests and such, and then everything went back to normal. Yes, the movie showed crazy people from both sides spouting their ideas, but at least from my perspective, the vast majority of people didn't do anything. But what what the movie didn't show you was the much more numerous people who went about their daily things, doing whatever, without acting like they've lost their minds.

I suppose someone else who was there could say something different, but as for me, my experience was that the most of the people who acted like idiots for both sides were the students, and even then, they were a little minority of the rest of the student body.

What I don't like about this is movie is that clearly from the posts above, most people now think that I, and just about everyone I know, are a crazy, radical mob that's terrified of the First Amendment, which isn't true.

I find it amusing that a similar event like this happened at Columbia not too long ago, in which the invited speakers were even prevented from speaking, and I have yet to see an outcry of appalling shock at them. Curious, isn't it?

Here's a link: http://www.nysun.com/article/41020

P.S. Oh, and as for Utah being named after the tribe of Judah? That's the first time I've ever heard something like that. I was always under the impression that Utah was named after the Ute Indian tribe that lived here, but hey, I could be mistaken.

"the church is very Aryan oriented- and actually more concerned with the things of Solomon than with salvation"

I guess I've been sleeping too much when I go to church, 'cuz I've missed all those talks and sermons about it.

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[deleted]

I guess the whole Ute tribe calling the land Utah, their word for "many mountains", is just an old wives tale./sarcasm
Just so people don't get the wrong impression, there are also more Mormons outside of the USA than inside. Tonga actually is a Mormon majority and South America has the fastest growing Mormon population in the world. Then on the other hand I guess if you heard something from somewhere it makes it true.

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Salt Lake City
"It is overwhelmingly Democrat and Liberal in a very red state."

I find this interesting, why do you think this is?

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I've worked with Greenstreet before, and you have to understand, he's like a miniature Michael Moore (who he practically worships, by the way). If there's not enough drama to make it interesting enough for him, he'll edit it so it looks like there is. I lived in Utah during this whole thing and there was no where near as much controversy as he would like you to believe.

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[deleted]

I must say that after researching the Mormon beliefs I have found out that only Scientology is more stupid and ridiculous.
This religion is based on a foolish fraud that every little kid could understand if this Joseph Smith guy was trying to tell him about it…

When understanding the stupid origin of the mormon belief nothing else can amaze you after that.

Sorry for my poor English, its not my natural language…


***Dont eat me, i have wife and kids... EAT THEM***

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[deleted]

Do you know the origin of the mormon faith?
if you do, you should not be amazed by anything, theses people will believe in anything...

***Dont eat me, i have wife and kids... EAT THEM***

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Amen to that

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It's pretty much hilarious how wrong you are.

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As a resident of rural Utah and a former member (born into the religion), I find it strange that Utah at all is a red state. Many core doctrines of the Mormon religion are extremely liberal; abortion is supported in cases of incest, rape and also the well being of the mother (in this I mean the mother being at risk of death from giving birth). Other core doctrines are very interesting to say the least, as it was said only scientology seems to be stranger. Examples i use are belief in baptism for the dead, as well as some weird lore ive heard. One of my favorites I heard in my high school seminary class (of which I was essentially forced to go to) was Joseph Smith's run-in with Cain, brother and murderer of Able, who is apparently forced to walk the earth until the second coming of christ (some speculate this is old bigfoot himself based on his apperance, making the tale stranger than ever).
I stopped being Mormon for 3 reasons: one, a massive hypocritical gap in my home town (you could call them sunday mormons, essentially using the practice of repentance of sins like a slate cleaner). I refused to associate with these massive hypocrits. Two, african americans were denied the priesthood (an essential core of mormonism) untill well after the civil rights movement, and with no explaination. If the church professes to be THE ONE TRUE CHURCH, why would core doctrines change based on a social outcome? Three, my bishop in my ward broke the privacy privledge which church leaders and lawyers must have to be effective in this country by calling the police and landing me in jail for a crime I committed. I was most displeased with the flagrant breach. All this being said, I love this documentary and can't wait to leave this culture of (hypocritical) intolerance behind.

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I too find it strange that the Mormon faith is so embracing of right-wing politics. (I never use the word "conservative" anymore, because I don't find right-wingers much conservative in definition). But I think it is how different people try to find solutions to their problems. The Mormons are, I think by definition, more sexually chaste and the concept of eternal marriage designed for purposes of fidelity. But a lot of the aspects about judgement of cultural behaviors are typically the first things glossed over by cultures, and preachers who want to please their congregations and fit in to the norm otherwise. I like what the scriptures have to say about working only for money, and falling away after wars and conflicts and spiritual gains. And I like it's emphasis on not placing good for evil and evil for good, because I think there's a lot of that out there right now.

In reading some of my previous comments, I think I may be overreacting to the Aryan aspects a little- The Book warns of mixing seed, which right away clicks off the "racist" trigger- But I think the gist of it is further developed, and perhaps not obvious enough- that any people who are "fair and delightsome " and pleasing to God can otherwise fall away from acting civily: the original Nephites become the trangressors, and the Lamanites become the better spirit, and the whole thing swirls around and is really dependent on time and place, and works and good will. I'm not sure exactly what the current teachings and practice are- bound to vary I suspect.

I will probably read through the mormon scriptures and doctrine further- it's been awhile now- but I find myself finding things I don't believe in now more than when I first read it years ago, and was really searching. The Spirit seemed to lead me there for awhile, but later elsewhere. I'm a transgendered person and nobody really wants me in their church anyway- I think the Catholics want me to be a Mormon, but the Mormons don't!

The earth finally demands the cooperation of its' citizens the nations can't, or won't, achieve

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Some peole in movie/documentary are clearly not clear about that we are living in the year 2008 and not the early 1900's They could really bring the worse out in people.

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