MovieChat Forums > Faith of My Fathers (2005) Discussion > Historically inaccurate; a total farce

Historically inaccurate; a total farce

posted 16 years ago by zazzy-zulu
19 replies | jump to latest

Wow, what a gloriously romanticized look at a supposed "war hero." Here are just some of the things that they left out:

-McCain DID give the Vietnamese sensitive military information. When he was captured he offered military info in exchange for a trip to the hospital. Two weeks later, he did give them some info - the name of his ship, the number of raids he had flown, his squadron number and the target of his final raid.

-McCain's early release was offered in exchange for making a statement that would have violated the military code of conduct. Many POWs were offered this and many declined, as they would have been court-martialed.

-McCain's torture didn't last all 5 years of his imprisonment. After the death of Ho Chi Minh in Sept 69 the Vietnamese were forced to change the way they treated their prisoners and no longer tortured them.

-They also failed to mention that McCain tried to kill himself at one point.

Overall, this was an extensively glossed over treatment of a complicated and not so outright heroic story.

[–] ollie97 16 years ago

Zazzy, you obviously have never been in the military, never been through survival training and have NO IDEA what it means to sacrifice anything. I will tell you what, why don't you break just one of your fingers or give yourself a hang nail and then put yourself in solitary confinement for just a few hours. After you start getting used to the hallucinations, pain, hunger and isolation, we can send in a 5th grader to make fun of you and watch you cry like a little girl. We wouldn't even need to torture you. I guarantee you would be making deals and selling out to get out of there as fast as you could.

You are completely clueless when it comes to POW conduct and military information. Your first bullet is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I won't get into why. What about Jane Fonda's visit to NorthVietnam? I bet the guys that suffered after her visit,(in '72!), due to her actions wouldn't agree with your "no longer tortured them" statement.

Enjoy your right to freedom of speech and sleep well at night while the rest of us and OUR FAMILIES make sacrifices so you can arm chair quarterback one of this nation's greatest citizens. A man who has devoted his entire adult life to something greater than himself. The funny thing is, men like John McCain, Dick Stratton, Dave Hoffman and James Stockdale wouldn't fault you one bit for your ignorant statements or lack of compassion. That is the kind of men they are. I have met these men and I can tell you that you couldn't hold a candle to their chamber pots. Please stick to what you know and leave the big boy stuff to the professionals.

[–] VanHalen1417 16 years ago

zazzy just got *beep* up

[–] zazzy-zulu 16 years ago

I mean...sure, you can argue that it's very difficult to be a POW and be tortured. And I agree. It's a horrible thing to have to go through. But that doesn't change the fact that this movie which is supposed to be truthful completely glosses over a ton of stuff that actually happened, just for the sake of making this man look like this superhuman hero.

[–] poolis 16 years ago

"I mean...sure, you can argue that it's very difficult to be a POW and be tortured."

.....and we can state that you are truly a JACKASS.

[–] isaac-cady 16 years ago

Zazzy is no Jack-Ass... He said nothing about being a POW. He pointed out historical inaccuracies that were left out to further glorify John McCain. All you fanbois really need to just shut up and except the fact that John McCain betrayed his country and is no super-human like you want to believe he is.

If I was tortured like that, I would have blurted information until my tongue fell off. You would too, and so would John McCain. End of story.

[–] rocktheworld2314 15 years ago

Um, he did say something about POW's, Zazzy was quoted. read the first sentence of his second post isaac.
and i don't believe that john mccain is a superhero so don't try pulling that on me, thanks.

[–] josh-magder 13 years ago

Yeah, except Zazzy is wrong. Mccain gave up a few minor details, but without going into resistance techniques which are classified, that did NOT constitute providing comfort and information to the enemy. Anyone who thinks McCain didn't resist honorably, clearly is either ignorant of what the means, has never been through SERE training or is just plain stupid.

He was offered an early release almost IMMEDIATELY once they realized his father was a Navy VIP, and he declined so he did NOT accept early release, and came home during Operation Homecoming.

McCain is a true American patriot, and instead of blindly following the Caprices of your Political Affliation, people need to THINK about things logically. I don't agree with a lot of things that I think should be policy/law/etc, but I think about them logically and legally and come to a conclusion that makes sense, not just based on what my opinions are.

Like was stated before, if you aren't a member of the military or if you've never been through SERE training, stop armchair quarterbacking others resisting in the worst of circumstances. You don't know a thing and your loud mouth and little forethought highlights your ignorance.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ace1232-1 15 years ago

I'm as liberal as they come, but I agree with Ollie97. Whatever inaccuracies the movie may present, it remains an immutable fact that most of us would sell out our mothers, fathers and everyone they know to escape 1/10th of what he went through. McCain's a hero; no getting around that, whatever your political agenda.

[–] ichbinsisyphos 15 years ago

That's not what the OP is about.

[–] dab6 15 years ago

Her car accident is completely ignored. They even have them dancing at the end for christsake (a double whopper, since Mccain can't lift his arms above his head).

[–] lollymward 8 years ago

Agreed!!
That's what I'm saying!

[–] ollie97 15 years ago

Yes. While I wasn't there to see first-hand the treatment of US POW's in Vietnam and I have not had detainee duty in Gitmo, Iraq or Afghan, these are two totally different scenarios. It is an interesting arguement but it is apples and oranges.

The guys we have in custody are the scum of the earth. Ask some of the guys who come back from duty at Camp Bucca or other detention facilities where they have to deal with, on a daily basis, prisoners who throw feces on them and try to kill them at every turn. Today's enemy is not a country or a recognized army. Yes, as silly as the "rules of warfare" seem, even to me, Al Qaeda and these other groups don't play by the rules. Chopping off heads of innocent civilians and blowing up market places and schools? You can stand up for what you believe may be their right to be given 8 hours of quiet, uninterupted sleep a day, a nice 70 degree cell, down comforters and whatever other comforts the ACLU thinks they should have and I guarantee you they would turn around and kill you and your family if they had the opportunity.

Yes, this is quite a dilemma that we are in and a debate for the ages with good arguements on both sides. Do we sacrifice our values and principles and torture these scumbags for the safety and security of our nation and way of life? If torturing one of these guys could prevent my family from being harmed, I wouldn't think twice about sticking bamboo shoots under his nails.

The difference here is that the North Vietnamese didn't exactly go around blowing up little kids and chopping off heads, to my knowledge. They prettended to be abiding by the Geneva Convention while all the while torturing our guys. Despite the dog and pony shows put on for the media. Don't get me started on Jane Fonda. She should have been tried for treason. I can guarantee you that we treat these scum better than they treat whoever they capture. So long story, not short, yes, McCain's and the others' torture was far worse than anything we dish out.

[–] ldddhunter 15 years ago

ollie97-- Just gotta say I love your post....I am sure the OP glorifies what Jane Fonda did, yet criticizes the hero that John McCain was--probably bc he was fighting for OUR country...the OP also sounds like somekind of anti-American creep. If the OP doesn't like McCain and/or believe the movie, than he shouldn't have watched it in the first place, bc he/she is obviously not a fan of McCain anyway..

[–] ollie97 15 years ago

I try to be nice and respect other people's opinions but some people have lost focus and have forgotten the sacrifices that others have made and are making so they can continue to live the way they do. These fundamentalists want to kill us and destroy Western Civilization. Plain and simple. 3,000 people gone in a couple of hours with 4 planes. Imagine what they can do with some real planning and some nukes. I stayed at the Marriott hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan a few months before they blew it up. This stuff is real. We either deal with it now or this fight will only get worse. We cannot afford to ease up on these people. If we do, you will see it come back on us ten-fold. That's all from here...

[–] zazzy-zulu 15 years ago

"The guys we have in custody are the scum of the earth."

Yeah, well, except for the ones who were innocent. Which could be anywhere from a few to many of the men who were held for years in Guantanamo.

Here's a few links, including one from Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/19/ex-bush-official-guantanamo-bay-innocent/
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/19/guantanamo-detainee-innocent.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0213/p03s03-usju.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/28/AR2007042801145.html?nav=rss_print/asection

The headline of that last article is "82 Inmates Cleared but Still Held at Guantanamo."

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Spurtikus 14 years ago

holy crap, only a leftist coward mangina would make an asinine mental defect statement like that; leftist logic, you see, is not amenable to fact. it is merely a pathology based on estrogen-dominance. please crawl back to the sewers from whence you came troll.

[–] ollie97 12 years ago

Here is a great article from shortly after the POWs returned. Definitely worth a read for the first hand perspective:

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.de/2012/08/fullbore-friday_24.html