These North-African, Arabic soldiers, were they French?
They spoke French and proudly fought in French Army but some of them had never been to France soil. (And some who died in Africa or Italy never made it there.)
Yet they said something like "fighting for their motherland" and looked so patriotic.
So, technically, were they citizens of France or just Algerian/Moroccan/etc. serving in French Army (the way Indian people in British Army)?
doesn't people read history at all? so much bad things in our world could be avoided by doing so.
Try to search for "frensch colonies".
So the answer is...?
on the paper, yes, but in reality, we'll never be French, it's a question of color.
shareMartinez is a Pied Noir, half Arab half French.
All the rest are Algerians. In other words, when the french need their help they are french but at all other times they are Arabs.
It should also be remembered that the French Government refused to honour pensions for those fighting for them in the war, after they became independent.
ruangvith,
These Indian people in the British Army that you talk about - they really believed they were fighting for the King and country. Try reading some of the BBC archives - where they quote letters from these soldiers to their families. I can imagine the same of the Algerian/Moroccan soldiers in the French army. What does it matter whether they were French citizens or not - they paid the ultimate price for what they believed to be their country!
They were supposed to be french theoretically, but in reality they were considered as second class citizens, they weren't allowed to go to school, etc. That's why the civil war was so violent.
shareRight, sossalemaire. The French tradition was long that those colonists who fought for France got full French citizenship. Algerian Jews got that citizenship, but Algerian Muslims did not. Citizenship in France was not predicated on the place where you were born - unless you are Muslim.
share"Weren't allowed to go to school" ? Where does that come from ? My father lived there, and he still remembers that Arab kid who was in his class and was the best in mathematics. He also remembers that girl who went to school until she was thirteen, and disappeared suddenly. It wasn't the "first class citizens" who did it, it was her parents, because they were Muslims. Get your facts straight before writing BS about french Algeria.
___________
- Booker, are you afraid of God ?
- No. But I'm afraid of you.
Since the original question didn't get any correct answer :
No, they didn't have french citizenship. Even in Algeria, which was legally considered french territory rather than a colony or protectorate, muslims weren't french citizens (apart maybe for a select few). They had a specific status that didn't give them the basic rights a citizen would have had (for instance the right to vote, or to live in mainland France). Note that it depended widely of the place. For instance, french Morroco had a king and was a protectorate, hence not technically a colony. The status of the locals varied acordingly. Nevertheless, AFAIK, the only locals ("indigenes") who got french citizenhip automatically (as opposed to having it granted on a case by case basis) in the french colonial empire were the Algerian Jews (and christians, although I wouldn't know if there were any local christians in Algeria at the time it was conquered).
this is true, they did not have citizenship but they was a part of the French Empire. Some applied for citizenship for many reasons, some got citizenship, others did have citizenship but for certain individual reasons (marriage, proffessional reasons, etc...). They was not french, but was french subjects.
shareThat's the point of the movie, isn't?
The North African believed they were Frenchman, they proudly fought and died for a motherland they had never seen. And yet they were treated as second-class citizens. The injustice in this movie is unbearable.
This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.
exactly - this was the injustice that the movie pointed out.
shareFrance never had colonies in the traditional sense but rather "overseas departments" which is why the French were so reluctant to give them up ... because they were considered direct, integral parts of the French nation. Algeria had the same status to France as Texas has to the United States for example.
Even today, French Guiana, Martinique, French Polynesia, St. Martin, Guadalupe, Reunion, etc are direct parts of France. They have voting representation in the French parliament, vote for the French president, are considered full French citizens, etc. Compare to US insular areas and British overseas territories who are treated as second class citizens. Residents of British Overseas Territories did not even have British citizenship until 2007.
Actually, France did have colonies. Algeria was indeed an integrated part of the country, but none of the other African or Asian territories were - they were all colonies or protectorats, as was Indochina (now Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia).
The territories in the Americas (Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana) and Réunion were colonies until 1946, when they became "DOM" (départements d'outre-mer).
French Polynesia, New Caledonia and a couple other areas are still "TOM" (territoires d'outre-mer) - not full-fledged departments. Their status is roughly analogous to that of U.S. insular territories.
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Residents of most American territories do not have representation in Congress, and do not get electoral college votes. Residents of the District of Columbia have a special legal provision so they are not disenfranchised like residents of other American areas that re not states.
share[deleted]
Actually, each US territory has a member of the House of Representatives, but they are not allowed to vote. Residents of the territories are US citizens, but are not allowed to vote in presidential elections, so they are pretty much second class citizens as well.
share[deleted]
Frenchman here,
Technicaly at that time, Algerians were Algerians, but Algeria was a French département and considered as a region of metropolitan France. This status of Algeria said that the country was a French territory, their inhabitants were Algerians, arabs and berbers and all the other minorities, and the european settlers were French with different origins, mostly French, but a lot of Italians and Spanish for exemple.
You have to understand that before France took control of the north african coasts, there was no Algeria, it was "Coasts of Barbaria", rulers were islamic Cheikh, territory was divided, Algeria is a French invention.
Morroco was a French protectorate, it was a territory controlled by France, and some parts were controlled by Spain. Morrocans had their king and the territory wasn't part of the French metropolitan territory. Morroco was autonomous, but not independant.
At that time you couldn't easily take the plane or boat to go to France like nowadays, the populations of Africa under the French rule were africans, and France process of integration isn't communautarism like the English one, it's assimilation, "the other become the same".
So France built schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, etc... and the population learned French language. They had a patriotic feeling because France was the ruler, and the ruler was much better than if he was English or Belgian.
So in the French army there was :
- French people from metropolitan France, the whole command line was French
- Pieds noirs (black foot), european settlers from Algeria, many of them joined the Free French Forces after the loss of the battle of France
- French people from overseas colonies or territories
- Africans from the different territories under French rule
Today there are still :
- Metropolitan France, divided into départements (districts), the France of Europe, the island of Corsica.
- D.O.M., départements d'outre mer (overseas districts), the populations are all French, they watch French tv, they're supposed to talk French or a French creole, they have the same privilege as the French population of Europe, the right to vote, the right to get state healthcare, mail service, same laws, same rights, same duties, just a different time zone.
There are the carribean islands of Martinique, Guadeloupe, Saint-Martin, Saint-Barthélémy (which are mostly inhabited by black people), the pacific island of La Réunion (inhabited by white and mixed people), and the other one of Mayotte which is inhabited by black islamic people who don't even speak French (but Sarkozy the former French president decided to give the island a referendum and they choosed to become French......), and French Guiana where there are white europeans, mixed people, illegal brazilians gold seekers and smugglers, illegal surinamese, foreign legion, space rockets Ariane (France), Vega (Italy) and Soyuz (Russia).
- T.O.M., territoires d'outre mer (overseas territories), the populations are all French but they are autonomous, maybe like the English commonwealth but without so much liberty. The French Republic keep a large a strong control. French Polynesia, Saint-Pierre & Miquelon near Canada, New Caledonia near Australia, Terre Adélie, Kerguelen islands, Wallis & Futuna, etc..
- And..... many people talk about the ties between France and it's former african colonies, and how the French presidents always manage to choose the African presidents, and how it's always France which make military intervention because of defense agreements and more obscure agreements which lead many people like I said to talk about "Françafrique" (France - Africa), a complicated relation between France and it's former colonies which make think many people those african countries are still under French rule.