MovieChat Forums > The Girl in the Café (2005) Discussion > The Questions That Never Get Asked

The Questions That Never Get Asked


I agree with the other posters. This film was blatant propaganda, and painful to watch at times. Someone should have asked Gina if she would have been just as forcefully blunt if she were speaking with African leaders. Would she have demanded that they end the rampant corruption that squeezes the life out of their nations and squandors the aid we send? Would she have asked them to start talking about safe sex practices that might save lives? Gina would have gotton real quiet then.

During the entire Live Aid thing -- you never once heard any of the do gooders talk about condoms. They're very vocal about forcing Western government to provide drugs to Africans with HIV, but nobody would dare ask Africans to wear a rubber, even though they are 95% effective in prevention of ever getting the disease. The real tragedy of AIDS in Africa is that it's probably the first pandemic in history that could have been almost completely prevented, simply by altering cultural behavior. Demanding personal responsibility, however, is not a hallmark of leftist thinking.

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no kidding. its all feel good nonsense. even at generic cost hiv drugs cost 1 dollar per day pe patient. while hiv prevention programs cost MUCH MUCH less. its about most effective use of dollars avaliable. not to mention creating a huge population of hiv positive drug takers will lead to super strains of drug resistent hiv as they continue to have sex with one another. it is inevitable.

and yes, just tossing money and aid at corrupt regiems only legitimizes the power of the corrupt in those countries. the people see their corrupt leaders and government recognized by the western states and know their power has become entrenched..supported by the misguided good will of do gooders.

its just more liberal white guilt, political correctness, and the new white mans burden.

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[deleted]

Sock,

What does colonialism have to do with putting on a condom? I mean it's a simple matter of life and death. My point is that none of the activists are out there addressing this issue. They're placing all the blame/solution on Western governments. It's yet another prescription for failure.

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[deleted]

Oh well... Just do nothing and by 2015 the population of the entire continent would have dimished to near zero (unless there are 30,000 newborns each day I doubt the population can sustain long). Then it would be much easier to help since there would be practically no one left.

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Oh no! Perish the thought! This means that our supply of baby back ribs will become exhausted in no time.

- - With apologies to Jonathan Swift and "Sealab 2021" ;-)

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Once again, we wander way off the reservation here. Perhaps people of two different political persuasions simply can't communicate. My point AGAIN is that you have to tackle the problem at both ends. If we think that a bunch of musicians performing on stage for a day is going to change the situation, we're being incredibly naive. I mean, we did it before in the 80's, didn't we, and Africa seems to be even worse off in many ways today.

Uganda is a good example of a country that has begun to turn the tide against AIDS. The reason? They've launched a very effective safe sex campaign. Sock, with respect, you talk in a very condescending fashion about Africa. The idea that they're not able to get the message out to the people there is silly and patronizing. They can, and we can help. I'm saying I'd rather see more of any aid dollars we send be poured into a prevention campaign than earmarked for drugs after the fact. It's too late then. These AIDS drugs are very hard on the body and build up a toxicity over time. They're not a good cure -- condoms are! So, why aren't activists focusing on prevention in Africa rather than debt relief and drugs from the West? I don't know, but it's a huge mistake imo.

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You know you might just have a point there...
So they don't know they have aids, do they know if they have children those children are likely to, if not from disease, die from starvation or do they need someone to tell them that??

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"My point is that none of the activists are out there addressing this issue."

You have got to be kidding me. There are HUNDREDS of activists and aid workers and health professionals preaching safe sex and abstinence. Hell, I know a woman snapped up for just that position in about six seconds flat just because she had done volunteer HIV/AIDS ed with the Red Cross. Her group alone - 50 people in it - is one of dozens working in South Africa. And you say NONE?

Do you have any idea at all what's happening on that continent? It ain't just HIV/AIDS, m'man.

Are you aware that our government - the same one that chants the mantra of free trade as if it were some sort of cure-all - puts such high tarriffs on African goods that it cripples their economies? Did you know that our government spent trillions of dollars for forty years propping up bad governments and encouraging all that corruption you're currently decrying? We spent trillions helping to make that mess; the least we can do is spend a like amount to help clean up our mess. That's one of those basic kindergarden rules, dude - clean up after yourself.

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Let us not forget that a lot of the money the US is fronting to fight AIDS in Africa is tied to "abstinence education programs". If any mention is made of using condoms as an alternative to abstinence, that money gets yanked.

Just like in the eighties when the Reagan administration could have nipped the spread of HIV in the bud with a sensible education program, the W administration is too parochial and prudish to deal with the reality that people are going have sex, even if you tell them not to. Maybe if we permitted people to talk about condoms and paid for something more sensible than an "abstinence education program", people would be more likely to use condoms.

All Americans bear the responsibility and guilt of this pandemic and the deaths and suffering associated with it. We will continue to heap more guilt upon ourselves every day we continue to wear the blinkers of our born-again fundamentalism.

Well, at least the money going to abstinence education programs isn't supporting corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.

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Not to belabor the point, but, yes, the current Administration is primarily pushing the abstinence program, instead of condoms. Even in the US, condoms were not really legalized until the 1960's, perhaps due to religious objections that it encourages immoral behavior.

Although, it is good to know that this past G8 Summit they pledged to double aid to Africa to 50 billion. Whether 50 billion actually gets sent there, only time will tell.


Anyway, great movie. Some have criticized Gina's outspoken emphasis on alleviating poverty as being naive, but even if the ideal may not always be reached, that does not mean that we should not fight hard for it. The US was founded on the ideal of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal", but yet, it has taken a long time for reality to come even close. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote the famous speech of his ideal "I Have a Dream" and his dream was just a dream before it started becoming reality.

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<<The real tragedy of AIDS in Africa is that it's probably the first pandemic in history that could have been almost completely prevented, simply by altering cultural behavior. Demanding personal responsibility, however, is not a hallmark of leftist thinking.>>

You are totally off the wall. Personal responsibility is certainly part of leftist thinking. In fact, it is left wing groups that push for the use of condomes whereas conservatives thwart such efforts. Personal responsibility doesn't mean killing your neighbour to take his money and thus become rich. Personal responsibility is taking care of your neighbours.

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As is often the case when people are faced with problems the tendency is to look for who to blame rather than what to do to correct the problem. So, for those inclined to do so you can point fingers in a number of different directions.

For several centuries Western nations have used and abused the people of Africa. If the former colonial powers, who at one time ruled the people in most African countries, were to provide 1% of what they stole from these countries, many of the problems could be solved.

The "leaders" of many of these countries are nothing more than thugs who learned how to suppress, then live off of, the people in their countries by following the example set my their former colonial rulers who used the same strongarm methods to subdue those people.

As is often mentioned, but seldom taken seriously, many of these countries have nothing that would benefit the Western powers. Therefore, we (I'm an American) have avoided, for the most part, getting involved in the problems that plague these people. (See Hotel Rwanda, for example) I would guess that the CIA has probably had as much to do with the state of affairs in Africa as anybody.

As for the use of condoms... well, here in the US, there are many "educated" people who have contacted AIDS through sexual contact because of failure to use protection. What would you expect from a group of (largely) uneducated people who have no medical personnel to advise them about the dangers of unprotected sex?

This movie is called, in some postings I read, propaganda. Does it serve an agenda? Possibly. But what is wrong with wanting millions of people to be able to live a life, in full, without worries of starvation or being murdered in your home. The only painful feelings I could relate to the movie were the ones that some of the G8 attendees seemed to be experiencing because they knew that what she was saying was, basically, right. If these people are more concerned about what the public will think about their decisions, rather than how they might solve the problems, then they don't belong in positions of such responsibility.

I personally enjoyed the movie. Make the setting a convention of accountants and the story of these two people is still compelling, to me. When I watch Bill Nighy it's hard to see him as anyone but the faded rock star from Love, Actually but in this movie he really paints a picture of a shy, aging guy whose life is his work. And Kelly Macdonald is great as this, seemingly, plain and uninteresting young lady who, suddenly, finds herself in the middle of a world she has never imagined, let alone aspired to. What's important here is not what question didn't get asked but what is to be done about the ones that are asked.


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Bama1111,

"For several centuries Western nations have used and abused the people of Africa. If the former colonial powers, who at one time ruled the people in most African countries, were to provide 1% of what they stole from these countries, many of the problems could be solved."

Do you have a source for this bit? Because I don't believe this at all. If the colonial powers were still in charge, the epidemic would probably be much less. And now that the blacks are in charge again, the Afrikaners are being terribly discriminated upon (Afrikaner unemployment rate is up 100% in 10 years due to this and thousands are killed in racist "farm murders" [of course this is nothing compared to the 30,000 children per day, but it is yet another example of Africa's mindlessness]).

The problem is that, to most of the world, the figurehead of Africa is Nelson Mandela. Most leaders in Africa are NOTHING like Mr. Mandela. And the thugs you speak of, these people are hardly like the colonists. The thugs are far worse.

"As is often mentioned, but seldom taken seriously, many of these countries have nothing that would benefit the Western powers."

I'm not all that educated on the matter, but what did they have that the colonists really took from them in the first place? The repression of those people was a horrible thing, but were they not poor to begin with?

"As for the use of condoms... well, here in the US, there are many "educated" people who have contacted AIDS through sexual contact because of failure to use protection. What would you expect from a group of (largely) uneducated people who have no medical personnel to advise them about the dangers of unprotected sex?"

Are you aware that many African males believe that sex with a virgin will cure AIDS? These people are less than uneducated. It's sickening. I agree that the current admininstration is doing a horrendous job there. These people are never - NEVER - NEVER! - going to use abstinence. What a waste. Give these people condoms in the masses! I don't see what else can be done other than hope they use them. And Africa is so rampant with AIDS, for me it's hard to believe that these people are still so uneducated on the matter. I wonder if they even care.

"When I watch Bill Nighy it's hard to see him as anyone but the faded rock star from Love, Actually but in this movie he really paints a picture of a shy, aging guy whose life is his work."

Bill Nighy is brilliant. Without him, this movie would've failed. I still can't believe how good he was in Love Actually. This guy needs deserves way more credit.

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True, but assuming that poor women in lousy male dominated societies can insist on the man using a condom is just dumb. Improving the status of women so that they can protect themselves and their children is essential to solving the problems of the poorest people.

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For those of you who think that this is propaganda, what movie isn't?

In your typical Hollywood propaganda, the message is to forget about everyone else in the world but yourself, to ahead and buy an Escalade, drive at ridiculous speeds to the top of a mountain at 8 miles to the gallon with 10 cup holders and a 16-speaker sound system and to hell with poor people, they're hardly worth cleaning off your 26-inch spinner rims.

What's wrong with standing with the millions of people who, by the accident of having been born in Africa, Asia or South and Central America, die needlessly every year? And don't sing me your boring old song about the white mans' burden. I know how desperately some want to frame those of us who give a damn about anyone other than ourselves as creating a culture of dependency or some such nonsense, but the fact is that there is a direct relationship between meaningless lives in one country and meaningless deaths in another.

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[deleted]

Hell, I thought I read that many Africans believe that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. Idiots. It's not easy helping people who won't help themselves. It might be brutal, but I could care less if these people get help. The answer is not just in us, but it is in them as well.

As for the movie, the facts are powerful, but the intent would crumble if both sides were properly represented. Personally, I'm not left or right. I believe political parties - any type of group, really - weaken the mind of the individual. But keep in mind I'm not a libertarian. I like forward-thinking and action, but there's something regressive about me that's hard to put into words.

So I think the movie does make one strong point: many men in great positions haven't the backbone to be great themselves.

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"Hell, I thought I read that many Africans believe that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. Idiots. It's not easy helping people who won't help themselves. It might be brutal, but I could care less if these people get help. The answer is not just in us, but it is in them as well. "

I don`t understand why you equate people who have a misconception (regarding curing AIDS by having sex with a virgin) with "people who won`t help themselves."

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A little over a century ago in Europe some of the most expensively (I won't say best)educated men believed the same stupid thing about syphilis. Thankfully some people gave a damn about finding a cure rather than blaming the victims. Dr Ehrlich got a Nobel prize for his efforts.Look him up why don't you.

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To what degree can one pretend to be doing good while talking about others as animals... ?

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Interesting how a film discussion got here.

How would people in Kansas feel if a bunch of African "experts" came over and told them how to run their culture and their sex lives?

The African experience is one of confusion, tribalism, multi-national imperialism, contradictory missionaries, commercial exploitation and so on.

This is why it is taking so long for things (i.e., the things that westerners think are "good" things) to happen.

Some African countries are nearly ankke deep in condoms supplied by Americans and Europeans, but it hasn't made any difference because the real roots of the problems haven't been addressed. Hunger, poverty, ignorance AND interference.

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