MovieChat Forums > O Jerusalem (2006) Discussion > Pulling a punch ruined objectivity - Spo...

Pulling a punch ruined objectivity - Spoiler

posted 16 years ago by plkldf
4 replies | jump to latest

I Commented on the movie, gave it an 8, said I generally liked it, but that one part of it ruined the objectivity. I didn't want to Spoil, but I figure the Message Boards are for people who have seen the film, while the Comments are for people who haven't. Nevertheless, spoiler ahead:

The Irgun (a far-right terror group) are given rifles in exchange for helping Haganah (a more moderate defense force). The main Jewish character, Bobby, along with a group of Haganah fighters, enters an Arab village where women and old folks have been killed, and it's clear that the Irgun have used the rifles they got from Haganah to massacre the village's residents. The Haganah folks, the "good guys," call the Irgun leader a swine, and demand that the fighters lay down their rifles. After some hesitation, they do so.

I found that totaly unbelievable! Moreover, I thought it was dishonest, because in context it implied that these guys were some bad apples who repented when faced with the wrong they'd committed -- hey, problem solved, okay? No need to feel bad about the massacre, it was an aberration. In my view, those Irgun fighters' ideological descendants are today's settlers. The movie lost a lot of credibility with me at that moment -- more like Likud propaganda. However, I am pro-Palestine. I am guessing that people who are pro-Israel may feel that the movie is propaganda in the other direction.

Anyway, I enjoyed the film, and I recommend it.

[–] mzzz_tish 16 years ago

I wonder if this scene is different in the US version? I have the French-release dvd and the scene seems to me to play as more of a stand-off.
There doesn't seem to be much regret as shown by the Irgun, though their leader, Golan does seem to have a flash of guilt in his eyes at the end of the scene.

You still have a valid point, though.

It's like...sucking the marrow from the bones of life.

[–] plkldf 16 years ago

In the version I saw, the men guiltily lay down their rifles, one by one, while the main Irgun man looks back and forth among them, not saying anything, but seeming to indicate, "stop obeying him [Bobby(?), who told them to lay down their guns] and be loyal to me"

[–] moiself 16 years ago

If I remember correctly, this was Deir Yashin... at least Deir Yashin is the paradygm of what Jews did to get some 'Lebensraum'... (they also shelled unnecesarily arab neighborhoods in Jafa -- if I remember correctly -- so as to get the population clean out of there...)
They probably wanted to clean out their rearlines of potential hostiles. It's war, and if you play by a lot of chevaleresque rules, you do risk losing it. This said, I for one refuse to win at ANY price whatsoever: you have to find within yourself the thin red line you're not willing to cross, lest you become a reflection of your own ennemy... I guess that would make me a lousy commander, and that's probably why I left the military still early in life.
I admire what the Yeshuv/Hagganah Jews did in 47 against superior forces, I appreciate the opening the old road to Jerusalem by Rabin and the Har-El brigade of the Palmach as a fine military exploit.
I can't condone what Israel does today to the ordinary palestinians, though I have no sympathy whatsoever regarding terror, kidnapping or torture as a political means of action. Well the Irgun, Stern and other groups stemming from the Jabotinnski revisionists had no principle except throwing out for 'religious reasons' any and all arabs by any and all means necessary. What's more, they wanted a following amongst the masses of jews arriving in Palestine from the concentration camps of Europe and the Americas. They weren't caught red handed at Deir Yashin, but I very much doubt they would have surrendered their weapons without a fight if it was the case. Stupid f#$%ers actually thought they were doing the right thing, see ? If I remember correctly, weren't the Yeshuv/Hagganah authorities forced to sink a ship loaded with guns for destined for them at Haifa port ? As Gertrude Stein said about some other subject, a terrorist is a terrorist, is a terrorist. The situation in 47, without a clear design of authority, democracy, institutions, police and the works, accounts for terrorist groups on the jewish side being more or less 'tolerated' by otherwise decent people.. and they had guns. If you see any similaritudes with today's situation on the arab side... well , the israelis should have learned something from their own history. Their bad...
Terror doesn't easily find a place (and sympathizers) in a regular society, with a fair set of rules and institutions that work. Please look at Ireland and Spain now... and remember how it was 30 years ago

[–] lightningcows 11 years ago

Re-reading the passage in the book, the scene in the movie with the standoff between the Haganah and the Irgun after the Deir Yassin massacre was accurate. It was the film's attempt to show that Israel didn't have its hands clean during the war either. If anything, the Arabic state of Jordan had the most favorable treatment in the film, which was not wholly undeserved from what I recall in the book.