Is the mother dead or alive?
Is the mother dead or alive?
share[deleted]
I'm glad someone else started this.
We had to watch this film for my SPA 202 class, which I think is Spanish 4ish.
Everyone in our class was certain that she was alive, but our professor seemed to think that she was actually dead, saying that's what the director wanted to portray.
I still think she's alive, but did the director ever say for sure?
~"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."~
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She is alive. At the very end, the mother tells Cruz that spirits can't cry. As she walks away from the camera, you can see her wipe aways tears.
Happen to fall off a cliff. Might as well try to fly.
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I think that in the beginning Almodovar wants us to think that she's a ghost, then in the middle part of the film he very skillfully makes us start to think she's actually alive and then, the impression at the end is that she is finally and actually - a ghost -- she lies to her daughters and having fixed everything she wanted to fix, she leaves...
If she's alive it wouldn't be very dramatic - no risk and no loss, no Pyrrhic victory:
"Oh yes - I'm actually alive and I come back and fix everything."
That's not interesting, too perfect.
But:
"I'll make you think I'm alive, cause if you think I'm a ghost, I can't fix anything. I'll lie to you in order to fix things and then I'll leave."
And in the end:
"I fixed it but I have to leave." - There's the drama.
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If she's a alive, the movie just doesn't work for me. It becomes a soap opera.
Of course, I might be wrong. I have a thing about life-after-death.
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These are all lies in order to make them think she's alive. If they thought she's a ghost she wouldn't be able to fix things.
shareEr, it's quite clear in the movie she's alive.
Tear down Guantánamo - End torture
http://www.tearitdown.org/
She`s alive. She explains it. Besides, once we listen to her explanations, everything just... fits.
sharehm, no, surely the point is that she just didn't want them to know that she is alive - actually being alive makes it no harder. She says that the fact that the village thought she was a ghost meant she could do things, but it was the belief that was important, not actually BEING dead.
share[deleted]
"If she's a alive, the movie just doesn't work for me. It becomes a soap opera."
It's supposed to be similar to a soap opera. It's an hommage to the women's picture, which by definition is filled with melodramatic suffering of women.
And she is definately, 100% not a ghost. If she was a ghost the whole story she tells about the affair would make no sense.
Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moon light?
"It becomes a soap opera." yes, exactly.
That's what creates the shock. It goes from being a ghost story to being a real story. The horror is in the unfortunate reality (and normality) of it all.
Well put.
shareWonderfully put. The horror is in the realisation that these are just normal people leading dysfunctional lives and that there is nothing supernatural about it. I can't believe there are people who watched this film and still think that the mother was dead! They obviously were not paying ver close attention, since its 100% obvious that she is still very much alive.
shareShe is Alive, it's even explained.
Frodoholic9 - Your professor is an idiot then.He must had turned it off half way through. The director wanted to portray that she was dead at first(playing with the themes of the film and audience perception), or maybe metaphorically dead, but she's certainly not dead, dead.
It wouldn't work if she was a ghost.Just what is wrong with a soap opera, if the story is well told? You could argue that the Godfather is a soap opera, or perhaps just more of an opera.heh. But it's a good film.
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I wondered whether she was alive or dead too. Most of the mother's dialogue has double meanings. However, what I concluded is that she was alive. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had to disappear every time Raimunda popped up without notice. A ghost or spirit wouldn't leave a client's head half-shampooed. That's when I realized she was really alive. Even at the end, when Agustina shows up at Aunt Paula's house, she disappears.
shareLord knows my opinion of professors isn't too high (after the crap I've taken from them), but he sounds kinda stupid.
shareshe's alive, she explained it.
the woman in raimunda's father's arm was augustina's mum. remmber that she (raimunda's mum) lit the fire that killed the dad and his lover (augustina's mum). its all explained.
i said mum alot :]
I was Hoping in the End of the movie the Mother would sorta fade away, that woulda been a shocking scene
and then the End! lol
The movie makes it plain, the mother is alive. Raimonda asks her during their walk, "Are you really dead?" and the mother says no, and explains the fire and Agustina's mother and the affair.
Am I anywhere near the imaginary cliff?share
I have just seen the film, loved it and it made perfect sense to me, but this thread doesn't.
There are people out there who seriously thinks she is dead???
Wonders never cease....
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The movie makes absolutely no sense if she's alive, who told you that ghosts don't lie?
What happens if she says "Hey, I'm a ghost and I'm here to straighten things out - let's do it so that i can fly away sooner".
The other option is that I'm wrong and the movie is just dumb :))).
And there's also a third, extra option in which I'm just dumb and the movie is brilliant :). But I personally, wouldn't choose that one, hahah. :)
EveryOne is the One...
Rejisior--there's a fourth option: the movie is very good (it's not brilliant), but you're still dumb. Irene is undoubtedly not dead and the film makes perfect sense--what part of her explanation (which explains everything in the movie) did you not understand? Or do you think a ghost getting (or needing) a haircut and some coloring makes more sense than Irene killing her husband and Agustina's mother and (after the body of Agustina's mother is assumed to be Irene), hiding in the aunt's home with the help of the villager's notorious superstition?
shareShe's dead. :)
EveryOne is the One...
"The movie makes absolutely no sense if she's alive, who told you that ghosts don't lie?
What happens if she says "Hey, I'm a ghost and I'm here to straighten things out - let's do it so that i can fly away sooner".
The other option is that I'm wrong and the movie is just dumb :))).
And there's also a third, extra option in which I'm just dumb and the movie is brilliant :). But I personally, wouldn't choose that one, hahah. :) "
rejisior, almodovar's films are filled with twists and turns, but in the end it all falls in place. and almodovar's films are highly melodramatic, and to me, it makes perfect sense that she's alive.
you're not dumb, his movies are not like any other directors. i got that feeling too when i first watched his movies. lol
Yeah. :)
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EveryOne is the One...
Raimunda's mother Irene is 100% alive. She burns down the barn - inside it is her husband and Augustina's hippie mother who are having an affair. Irene runs away and hides in the fields. Since Augustina's mother has been missing before, and Irene (Raimunda's mother) is married to the man it is believed that the body is hers since she is also nowhere to be found and nobody knows about the affair. Augustina's mother is buried under Irene's name. Irene returns to look after Paula, and thanks to the superstitious folk in the town and that they think Aunt Paula has dementia, they believe sight or talk of her is actually a ghost. She explained that she had to hide and couldn't even go out.
shareOut of all the replies yours finally answered the question thoroughly. I still wonder what she was doing in the trunk of a car though.
shareShe's Alive, She catches her husband having an affair with the aunt and burns down the place and then flees to another village
shareI have to rewatch this, but if she's alive, the movie is not one that I'd like.
EveryOne is the One...
Well I'm sorry you don't like it then.
The entire subplot of Augustina's missing mother would be utterly extraneous if Irena was the one who was dead.
And no, she wasn't secretly killed in the fire she set because the whole point is that people found two bodies after the fire and assumed them to be her and her husband.
One HUGE clue from the beginning that she wasn't dead is that Aunt Paula kept an exercise bike even though she was nearly too ill to walk.
Maybe some of the more persistent here will insist that Irena is dead, and is simply a ghost who can talk, hug, eat, even fart. And that it was her ghost taking care Paula... But it's proof that she wasn't a ghost if she NEEDS to exercise because she was hiding out indoors all the time.
My theory is :
The mother is dead, but she wasn't aware of this herself.
She killed her husband and the hippie woman, and I think she got killed in that accident too by burning herself. So since she thinks she is alive, she hides at the aunt's house, so people won't find her and thereby think she is also dead.
But as most of the movies about ghosts point out, that people who has things undone, will be among us until they have finished what they have to, in order to get peace (like the sixth sense, the lord of the rings etc...), this is also what agustina says at one point in the movie.
She first discovers that she is actually dead, when she tells her story to her daughter about what really happened that day, when she killed her husband and the lover.
Then when her daughter forgives her, they go back to the village, but she is still there, cause she still has something that she has to complete, and that is because she owes Agustina (since she has been worried so many years about her mothers disappearance, because she killed her, and agustina was left alone with her cancer), and leaves her family to take care of Agustina. Then in the last scene where her daughter wants to tell her about paco, she chooses to go back to agustina, and suddenly the lights go off and she fades away in the darkness. This could be that Agustina just died and the mother have solved her things and thereby has reached her peace.
An important piece people have missed is the woman on the television mentions that many people in the village are insane or mentally imbalanced. Perhaps, they saw their mother, not as a ghost, but simply imagined her because of their insanity to resolve their own problems.
shareI dont think there is any definite answer to this.
Obviously at first everyone thinks its a ghost, and then maybe not when she explains to her daughters, but i felt like she was just saying that to keep her daughter happy, and she was infact dead...
im sure the story was more or less completely true about lighting the house on fire, but she probably missed out something about how she died (maybe she killed herself in the fire too)
So i think she was a ghost, who could interact with people (ie. cutting hair, hugging)
My theory is :
The mother is dead, but she wasn't aware of this herself.
She killed her husband and the hippie woman, and I think she got killed in that accident too by burning herself. So since she thinks she is alive, she hides at the aunt's house, so people won't find her and thereby think she is also dead.
But as most of the movies about ghosts point out, that people who has things undone, will be among us until they have finished what they have to, in order to get peace (like the sixth sense, the lord of the rings etc...), this is also what agustina says at one point in the movie.
She first discovers that she is actually dead, when she tells her story to her daughter about what really happened that day, when she killed her husband and the lover.
Then when her daughter forgives her, they go back to the village, but she is still there, cause she still has something that she has to complete, and that is because she owes Agustina (since she has been worried so many years about her mothers disappearance, because she killed her, and agustina was left alone with her cancer), and leaves her family to take care of Agustina. Then in the last scene where her daughter wants to tell her about paco, she chooses to go back to agustina, and suddenly the lights go off and she fades away in the darkness. This could be that Agustina just died and the mother have solved her things and thereby has reached her peace.
she can't be dead. everyone saw and touched her. almodovar hinted at the warm exercise bike at the house, and her daughter smelling her fart (lol!). besides, when she works as assistant to her other daughter by colouring hair and servicing clients, they all are aware of her presence...though they didn't know that its her mother.
you guys read far too much into this. this is a very classic almodovar film - complex character and storylines in the beginning, and slowly the real plot unfolds and by the end of the movie, everything is explained...and is more simple that what it originally looked like...most of his films are like that. watch 'la mala educacion' and 'hable con ella'...quite similar outcome (though different themes and storylines.)
If she died in the fire herself, why wasn't there three bodies found in the fire? I'm sure the bodies would have been charred by the fire, but the bones should have remained.
Pretty sure she was alive. As she said herself, ghosts don't cry and in the end she was. It makes sense that she is alive as it connects with the portrayal of oppressed women which runs through out Volver.
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".
I really think she is dead: She just makes the story about the fire and the hippie mother up, to get good contact with her doughter again. She needs her to forgive her and that's why she is telling her doughter that she's not dead, because her doughter won't believe in ghosts, only in real persons.
Also, when the mother is watching tv in the end, she is watching a scene about Pinokkio, about lies. I think this is a suggestion that the mother is telling lies.
In the end, the daughter is coming to her mother and tells her that she needs her and loves her. Now the mother knows she has forgiven her and she can leave again.
Is this thread a joke?
I can't believe that people actually think it's a 'ghost story' in the truse sense of the word.
To think she's a ghost all along is to miss the whole point of the point.
Some people should not venture further than the usual Hollwood BBs or Brit flicks when it comes to watching movies.
c'mon ppl she's alive, you're looking way too into this stuff and must have not watched the scene on the bench.
If you are a racist, I will attack you with the North. - Abraham Lincoln
It's quite obvious that she is alive. Ghosts don't need to hide under beds, dye their hair or hitch rides in the trunks of cars.
sharelol i cant believe you guys are making rules about what ghosts can and cant do.
obviously ghosts are not real...not to most people anyway....so if she were a ghost, then clearly this film isnt meant to be a "realistic" piece, and therefore the fact almodovar MIGHT have chosen the ghost to be able to cut hair or want to exercise is irrelevant to "proving" whether shes a ghost or not...
it just adds to the feel of the film...and clearly the confusion that has brought about topics like this!
the fact that so many people believe in both shows that this is an open ended debate, and there is no definitive answer, and im sure thats how almodovar intended it.
the only proof you can give is if you ask almodovar yourself, and he tells you in person, that she was meant to be alive/dead.
otherwise stuff like "oh she must be alive cos why would she leave a haircut half way through or hide" is not!
theres always an explanation..eg. she was trying to ACT as if she was real to her daughter...