I found the 'multiple cheek kisses' that the ladies did to each other in the movies are really hilarious. I am not sure if that is a Spanish custom for cheek kissing; but for us the audience in Australia, ppl kept chuckling whenever they did it. I reckon it's really cute and showed how much you love that someone. Probably I will try it next time :)
shareYes, it's a Spanish/Latin custom, and it is funny when you see it first hand. And it takes forever when you have 3 or 4 ladies in the group.
shareSo it is indeed a Spanish custom. It does look a bit whimsical to people who never see it before but I reckon it's really cool. Kudos to Almodovar for showing us this. :)
shareI went with a group of people to see this film and my friend and I, both white, were cracking up because most of our close friends are Hispanics from Chile and Mexico and everything we saw the characters do in Volver reminded us of the times we spend with their family. It was really a great thing to see and made me feel a lot closer to that culture. Almodovar did a great job with that-- showing the Spanish customs and all.
"Mediocrities everywhere... I absolve you!" -Amadeus
FYI, people in Mexico and Chile are also "white" or may be so. If you mean Anglo, please use the right terminology and say so.
For example, "white" people in France kiss each other two, three, or four times every time they meet, depending on the custom in the region (two kisses in Paris). "White" people in Argentina kiss only once on the cheek, and they do it all the time, whether it is a man or a woman kissing a man or woman friend or relative.
Anglo is no more correct than using the term white> He obviously meant they both have light skin. The term anglo on the other hand implies English heritage. No one thought that he or his friend were from mexico nor chile when he said white; question is: what makes you think either of them are of English descent? Better question, who cares?
Anyway, the whole kissing thing isn't just from south and central America. The custom was brought there by the Spanish, as throughout Europe: Spain, France, Italy, Croatia, etc. such kisses are a common greeting, whether exclusively for women or no
I'm sorry to tell you that although Almodovar is weird looking, he's actually white. Many Chilean and Mexican people are also white, but talking especifically about Spain we're a white. Not normally blond, but could be. Like I'm a brunette with green eyes. One of my friends is a blond with green eyes and another one brunette with dark eyes, but caucasian. Like Italians or French. That's one thing. The other thing is that yes, we actually kiss each other twice as a greeting and to say goodbye.Like in France, Italy, Portugal and many other countries. I actually make no noise, is actually not a kiss, more like a face to face thing. That's the normal thing in most cities,and especially with young people. Also, this film shows nothing about European and especially Spanish culture. Maybe Spain in a lost village in the 50's, but not today. The dresses, the cars, the televisions, the slutty Raimunda look, the catholic posters, the sexual relations with family members...It's just not Spain and I'm tired of Almodovars obsession of portraying Spain like this. Unfortunately many people doesn't have the chance or the will to get to know other countries and this is their way of learning about other cultures.
shareI am very glad you set the record straight not all Spaniards do NOT have relations with their family members
shareMy guess is that it is Almodovar's intention to shock his audiences (pregnant nun with AIDS, anyone?), not portray all Spaniards as incestual. I certainly do not view Spaniards in a negative way, or any people as a national group or racial group or whatever based on a film. Films are for entertainment and occassionally introspection, and if someone is only getting "Those Spanish people like sex with family members" from watching Volver, then they are ignorant and have missed the point, and you should not be concerned with their judgment because it is clearly worthless. Lighten up.
shareMy exact thoughts eretx12.
It's a movie, people should take it af face value.
Its just very stupid to believe people in Spain are rapist transvestites because an Almodovar movie, ore that all Mexicans are corrupt from watching traffic, or that Americans make love to pie... well you catch my drift.
Maybe some people, but you should judge the bunch by the few.
Voy a la selva de Ejutla... Busco al Sinfin.
Im Spanish also and I Have to say that u r not right. I dont we r u from in Spain, but in AndalucĂa and Castilla la Mancha at least (Southern Spain), the whole kissing thing is exactly like that with old people and specially in villages. So, dont think young people kiss like that in Madrid or cementaries r always full of people cleaning the graves in Barcelona city but again specially in villages and with old people is exactly lika that.
About sexual relationship with family or the nun with AIDS... I dont think anyone thought its something very normal in Spain, its just a movie, an Almodovar´s movie. I loved it and I do think that he shows very good some parts of Spanish culture, a great ambassador!
Well, customs in Chile, Mexico and Spain are not the same, you know. People appear to be warmer in these countries, that is true.
sharei agree. i was born and lived in mexico for ten years and we had a similar kissing custom, it was only one kiss though and among men and women. it made everything seem more friendly.
shareSpaniards are also white
share'jonoroars' i commend you for wanting to be closer to other cultures because you are obviously a long way from the rest of the world ! Hispanics are from Central America & Caribean as this is a very American term - Europeans call these people 'Latin American' which i think sounds less derogatory. South Americans are just that - South Americans .
What you need to know now is that many regions of Central & South America are populated by indigenous peoples , and that people in Argentina for example consider themselves to be White European . Chile is also very 'white' , where as Mexico is not so much , having many more percent indigenous ancestry.
That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .
I am from saudi arabia and we doing Multiple Cheek Kisses like most the arab.
it is traditional from hundreds years ago.
I'm spanish, and yeah, it's a spanish custom. In France it's 3 kisses...
We do that when a woman meets a woman and when a woman meets a man, but not between men.
It's hilarious when I try to kiss foreigners on both cheeks and they go like: what-are-you-doing!!
Agreed! and yes this is a custom practiced in many countries, especially latin ones
shareWell, the cheek kisses is a custom, but i think that the sound of the kisses are quite exaggerated which is why I, familiar with the custom, also found especially the kisses of Augustina very funny.
shareAlmodover is known for over-emphasizing and often, negatively portraying, some of the stereotypical Spanish customs. Clearly the "dos besos" or two kisses that the ladies give each other are overly dramatized. The story revolves around the area where he grew up in La Mancha and he deeply hated the machismo culture he was a part of; his screenplays and film making are a deep reflection of that: just look at the way every male character is portrayed (and there aren't many.)
shareAlmodover is known for over-emphasizing and often, negatively portraying, some of the stereotypical Spanish customs. Clearly the "dos besos" or two kisses that the ladies give each other are overly dramatized. The story revolves around the area where he grew up in La Mancha and he deeply hated the machismo culture he was a part of; his screenplays and film making are a deep reflection of that: just look at the way every male character is portrayed (and there aren't many.)
Well I think you contradict yourself a little bit by saying that the kisses are not over-emphasised and then when you tell of your experience you confine to old ladies kissing someone who they haven't seen for long. I think it is a custom that exists but one which is rather marginal and confined to certain situations and age groups, and Almodovar seems to wallow in these kind of idiosincrasies excessively.
share'every male character'??
I disagree with you there. For instance if we just talk about Volver, there is the restaurant owner, who is clearly enamored with Raimunda (Cruz). Remember the scene when he leaves her the keys? She says something like 'I always liked your restaurant' and he replies something like 'Ah yes, but not me', it's a cute moment. Later when she admits to him that she has been using the restaurant he is a bit angry at first but then softens when he hears how tough she's been having it.
Then OF COURSE there is the guy from the film crew who negotiates with Raimunda about the catering. He's charming, sweet, genuine... and there is definitely chemistry between the two of them.
Did you forget these parts? Or do you see just what you want to see?
Well what I find interesting about those male characters is that both of them notice and and are attracted to Raimunda's physical characteristics. (not that I blame them) The owner of the restaurant notices the blood on her neck.
The way they come and go from the script are also symbolically linked to the unseen men in the women's life. Entering and leaving. Coming and going.
Volver.
I think that since we can read each choice of this director as having a purpose it's important to see how and when all characters (onscreen and off) enter and leave each other's lives.
This reminds me so much of Latin literature. I thought of Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Magical Realism a great deal while watching this. He has a wonderful story about the East wind in Spain.
The controversy on the message boards is exciting because there are so many views on this movie.
Truly a sign of the Latin Wave of brilliant movie making.
Screw French New Wave. Passe I say.
I think the men in Volver aren't necessarily portrayed negatively so much as they are disregarded as stepping stones in minor plot points, so that things can move on, and when I was watching the movie, I did not feel a need to linger on them at all. Almodovar easily disposes of them by killing Paco, letting the restaurant owner have only one scene, not paying any attention to the filmmaker character. The only pivotal scene having to do with men is at the end when all the ladies are gathered at Paco's burial site where Raimunda reflects on the river.
"To no absolutes, To Absolut, to Choice, To the Village Voice, To any Passing Fad!"
I agree about the sound of the kisses being exaggerated. I'm sure they were enhanced by sound effects.
shareOh, btw, making noisy kisses is just a not very polite thing to do... and these people in the film are not exactly average spanish people.
shareDefinitely a custom--it's second nature to people from many regions. Being from the French West Indies, we also follow a similar custom. For many people in our community, it'd be in a sense disrespectful if I didn't greet them with kisses.
What we got here is... failure to communicate.
Just to check: We are talking bout the '3-4 kisses on each cheek' here right? The '1 kiss on both cheek' custom is quite common, thus I'm quite curious bout the 3-4 kisses on each cheek as shown in Volver - which seems quite a strange custom to me :)
shareThe amount of kisses really changes from one spanish region to another. Where I live we only give on kiss, and it gets kind of awkward when you go to other regions where the custom is two or more kisses. When possible, I recommend watching others doing it before you try. That way you can see what the custom is there.
sharehahaha
i'm from Brazil and here we have this custom too. I live in Rio and we give 2 kisses (one in each cheek), and it changes from region to region..,
Juan is right about the awkwardness! lol there's always someone kissing the air... Terrible!
:o)
I'm in the Philippines, and everyone does the beso-beso cheek kissing here too. At family gatherings and reunions, it's somewhat expected, and you may be considered cold and unfriendly if you don't. I hate it! During holiday season, so much germs and viruses are passed around, that when January rolls around, nearly everyone has the sniffles and you hear sounds of coughing everywhere you go. Not to mention the oil and acne on people's cheeks that you rub against and which gives me zits after. Agh! I wish we could all do away with this nasty tradition!
shareFor me it wasn't really the multiple cheeks, but that noise they made when they did it. I practiced it at home last night, with my cats, who consequently thought I was crazy. People in my audience laughed too, mostly because it was so exaggerated and funny. That noise is not a natural kissing sound - try it...
shareI´m from the south of Spain, AndalucĂa. It´s typical from Spain to give 2 kisses (one on each cheek), but the multiple kisses are usually given where i live, specially by grandmothers. My close friends also kiss me that way!hehe
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Hello, Kevzz! I really admire the Spanish way of kissing. It puts people in closer contact and it involves touching other people. The contrast is interesting if you examine these sorts of customs portrayed on film... "Crash" vs. "Volver," for instance. One is cold and isolating people, the other is warm and full of spirit.
I really enjoyed the scene of Tia Paula's funeral, how the other women swarmed around Soledad and took turns with hugging and kissing her. In the United States, as I've experienced funerals, people usually stand in their corners and cry, not really minding who else is in sight, and guests usually don't know exactly how to approach family of the departed.
What I really like also, is how this movie is being seen around the world and it opens up narrative between people of all sorts of nationalities and ethnicities.
Bravo to "Volver" or "Volvar"... hehehe ;)
For me, it wasn't the number of kisses that was distracting. It seems lately that Hollywood has adopted the "air kisses" as their own and it was in the entertainment show (Access, Entertainment Tonight, etc) not too long ago.
So the kisses themselves weren't what got my attention every time. Like someone said before, it was the sound they made, especially Agustina. I can only describe it as "a starving baby cow desperately suckling at a dry teat." Those were some loud fake kisses!
But then, it was only one character who was that loud, so maybe that's how she does it in real life.
That'll do, pig. That'll do.
I agree too. It was the exaggerated sound that made it look a bit funny. Did Almodovar do this to make fun of the custom? To depict the bond between the people? Any ideas on why the exaggeration of the sound????
shareI agree that the sound was over exagerrated and i think it wasnt to make fun of the custom but your second point, to depict the bonds and closeness that these women share.
shareMy husband is Spanish and I lived in Andalucia for a long time. When I saw them kissing each other like that it reminded me of my mother-in-law! She always does that to my husband and me when we go to visit. The two kisses is the normal greeting for everybody. The "multiple kisses" are usually given in families. I wouldn't call it a custom, per say. I think that when Spaniards are especially happy to see a family member (after a long absence, for example) or they think a kid is really cute, etc. it's one way that they show extra affection. It's more than just two kisses, which you give to everyone, even to people that you have just met.
Also, they really make that sound when they kiss each other like that. It was pretty much exactly how it's done in real life. And why not? These ladies grew up seeing and hearing it, they should know how it's done!
No exaggeration. Each time the kisser gives the kiss, he/she makes a sound and depending on his/her mood, he/she can make this sound loud, gentle, mute, quick, long, etc. Friends or Family members who haven't seen each other in a long time usually give "dos besos" loudly to expressing their longing for the other person. In the other hand, the "kissed" also makes a "kiss sound" althought he/she isn't the one giving "dos besos". So, yeah.. It isn't a surprise this custom is seen as weird and ridiculous by cultures who idolize the "first kiss" and think about kisses mostly as a sexual affair.
sharePeople complaining about the noise is sort of offensive to me. It's not fake. When my grandmother would kiss me on the cheek, she'd grab my face with both hands and do the muah, muah, muah, muah thing on both cheeks. The same exact noise and everything (the noise is possibly because she was actually kissing my cheek and not doing the whole faux air kiss). I didn't know why she'd do it because I'm American, we don't do that, and it would annoy me, but I now realize that's just a sign of affection (Notice how the aunt refused to do it when seeing Sole?). She's the only person who ever did that and seeing it in the movie made me miss her. It also makes me feel bad for always wiping my cheek and making a face or rolling my eyes. I didn't realize it's a Spanish custom.
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all
It's not just a Spanish custom. Kissing each other on the cheek two or more times is a custom found in many cultures , especially in the copuntries sorrounded by the Mediterranean. It's kind of funny when you think about it. We kiss each other like that even though we meet every day. :D In the theatre ppl were laughing like crazy , but i find it cute because it's part of my culture. Including these details is wonderful, it gives this movie everything that Hollywoodian movies lack : LIFE.
P.S Kissing on the cheek is almost equally manifested in man as in woman. The fact is that in some cultures man are so secure in their sexuality that they allow to kiss close friends and realtives on the cheek.
As some people have already pointed out, it's not just a spanish custom. French people also greet each other with 2 or 3 kisses.
True there, I'm from Chihuahua, Mexico and I know that most guys won't kiss each other on the cheek maybe due to macho psychology left in the culture or otherwise, but I do know that it is common to see your guy friends kiss their uncles, grandfathers, and fathers. And as for the ladies, any time you see each other we do one kiss on one chick as someone had already pointed out, with a max of two if it is two girls and they know each other quite well.
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