OK, I know this will inevitably descend into a trollfest with accusations of "anti-Semitism" thrown in probably by the third post, but since I have great faith in human nature I'll give it one try.
I'm curious as to what political angle this film is shot. Anything to do with Israel is necessarily politicised. Anyone seen the film yet?
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I was pleasantly surprised at the objectiveness, actually... Knowing it was an Israeli guy who made the movie I felt sure it was going to be all angled, but I didn't get that feeling at all...
It showed ordinary people, both Isrealis and Palestinians, and how the conflict has affected them - it didn't accuse or glorify any of the sides; it just showed the facts.
The finale of the film is depressing, yet still objective - it gives the felling that unless the minds of both sides change, it's not going to move in any kind of direction...
And they lived happily ever after. Scar.share
Thats a simple way of looking at it.
Espacially for Israelis, who are more aware of the sub-contexts and the fine-tuned meanings inserted into the movie, you get a very clear picture of just how one-sided this movie really is.
If you watch it carefully, you will notice that all through the movie, either directly and openly or in a hidden and almost un-noticed way, the Israelis are portrayed as the "ultimate bad guys".
Hanna Lalsao, through the various situations, is portrayed as a coward, a money-obsessed person, a vulgar, racist, short tempered and generally annoying person. The Israeli security people are vulgar, rude, ruthless and short tempered.
On the other hand, all Palestinians, or Jordanians (e.g. the border crossing police men in Jordan, the gas station owner, the American, Layla, etc etc) are presented as good natured people - Kind, loving, understanding, accepting, caring and of course, doing their best to survive in a world that is making its best not to let them (and as is made quite clear by the movie - "Israel and the Israelis are to blame".
Even the one single shot of Palestinian violence - The Mortar attack on the kibbutz that wounds Hannas husband, is never described in any way, direct or indirect, as a Palestinian attack, simply as "something that happend".
Bottom line - The fact that Amos Gitali holds an Israeli citizenship does not really mean anything, other than to make his propaganda more effective. In reality, is movie is just as biased and one-sided as your average Palestinian propaganda film.
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I get the impression that it's a neutral standpoint. Trying to show a picture from a 3rd party perspective.
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I am pretty sure Israeli troops never crossed the Jordan River during the '67 war except to cover engineers while they blew up the bridges to keep Jordanian troops from crossing back over (after they had been chased across). So I don't see how Israeli tanks could have blown up a farm in modern day Jordan.
The flashback of Rebecca's boyfriend talking about wasting some poor villagers and raping a woman is clearly intended to show how brutal Israeli soldiers are. Things like this happen (Mai Lai comes to mind) in any country's army. However, I have yet to see any proof (there is proof of Mai Lai) of an event such as this having been perpetrated by Israeli troops. I'm not saying I wouldn't believe it if I was shown proof, just that I have not heard of any or seen any. Just rumor and innuendo. Contributing to such rumors without any proof helps no one.
Because of these two scenes, which I believe are both without a historical leg to stand on, I also believe the movie is anti-Israeli. I could be wrong about either or both, but I am just going on the books I have read about the six day war and the current conflict.
As for this:
"As for the security guards at the border, any Israeli who is open minded enough to set foot in Jordan or in the Palestinian area should know, or any forigners who visited the land also should know the big mistery of Israeli security policies: why on earth the security is more tight, the gurads more into their harrasment modes when you are leaving the conutry than when you are getting in? That scene is totally realistic, and that reality doesn't make sense at all."
They don't want people smuggling bomb making materials, weapons, etc. into the Palestinian territories or Jordan (were a lot of terrorist activity also takes place). Security is extremely tight getting in to Israel as well from my experiences.
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Not my experience. Just as many questions going in as going out. Don't know. Maybe your friends fit a profile or something?
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Perhaps, but perhaps you were unlucky or fit a profile. How do you know that your experience is the average and not mine?
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All security forces profile in one sense or another. It is proven police work. It can mean something as common sense as looking for someone that is acting nervous, so don't think profiling has to mean "non Jewish = gets extra attention." Again, maybe your friends fit a profile. So they got some extra attention. Was it really that unreasonable? Did they get to go where they wanted to go? Can you blame Israeli security for being really tight these days? Is it possible your friends are a little biased so they played it up a bit when they told you about it?
All I can go on is my experiences and all you can go on is what you have been told, so I respectfully disagree with your characterization of Israeli security. In any case, it is their borders and if they really are a little tougher on people leaving than people going in, that is their concern. You don't have to go to Israel. If it is true, I am sure there is a policy reason.
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1) You can't assume anything about me just because of a post I made
2) Half of my family is still in Israel, and I lived there for years, so I am not even really Diaspora as you assume.
3) Because I took your criticisms seriously I asked everyone I know that lives, lived in, or has been to Israel about this. The consensus among everyone I asked is that, if anything, they care much more about people coming in to Israel. As my uncle asked my "why the hell would they care if you brought a bomb to Jordan or the West Bank?" Now I am sure they do care if you bring a bomb to either of those places, but it does make sense that their primary concern is people coming in to Israel with dangerous items.
4) How do I want to defend EVERYTHING about Israel because I just disagree with you about this one thing? You said:
"It is a commonly well known fact among tourists who visit there, as well as among Israelis."
As I have said, I asked many people that fall into all of these categories and they all disagree with you. So, it is obviously not a commonly well held BELIEF. It is your BELIEF. Not a FACT.
5) I agree they have some of the toughest and most vigorous security in the world. Don't you think they have a good reason?
6) Why have we been discussing this one aspect of Israeli security when it was a very small part of my original post? Would you care to comment on the two major problems I had with the film as discussed above?
I am sorry that we disagree about this one issue, but please don't say that I am only disagreeing with you because I am Diaspora and/or because I will defend EVERYTHING about Israel. I, and most of my family, is just as critical and cynical about the Israeli government as we are about the US government, which is a lot. I don't agree with a lot of what they have done or do, but I just happen to disagree with you about this one aspect of their security and so does everyone I have asked so far that has been to, lives in, or lived in Israel. I could just as easily accuse you of hating EVERYTHING Israel does no matter what. But I am not going to make assumptions about you. Please extend me the same curtesy and let us have a decent discussion. Thank you. Sorry if I sound preachy.
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Re-read my post man. I am not upset. I am just disagreeing with you based on my own and other people's experiences. I was using the CAPS like you did to make a point. Way to once again not address what I said though. Ah well, I give up. You obviously didn't even read my post.
Anyone else have an opinion about this movie?
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I think it takes two to debate. You asked the question and I disagreed with the presumption upon which your question was based. You then continued to engage me in the discussion of the point. You are as much at fault as I am. However, I said already let us just disagree and move on. Why don't you address the other points of my original post.
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Just to clear up the question of why airport security is much tighter when you leave the country- they want to make sure you're not trying to smuggle a bomb or weapon onto the plane. I don't mind the questions and extra security- makes me feel safer.
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a lot of posts have been deleted in that board, so um having problems understanding what were you guys exactly talking about
-FYI, i'm very fimiliar with the palestine-israel conflict; politically speaking-
but i noticed some things in the movie that got my attention. When natalie portman was talking to the guy in the gas station, he asked "where is the other woman from?" she said "the other side"..i kinda of laughed a little bit that she didnt say israel, recognizing that she might get a bad reaction from him. but he didn't, the guy was friendly and he didnt take it personally.
at the end of the movie, the fact that the taxi driver -israeli woman- and liela were fighing and arguing about a problem -money- they didnt have a hand in creating. meaning, the woman was late and the guy with the money left and liela already warned her on the phone.
when they looked for him to take the money there was fire and the -american guy's- son said, "that money belongs to the palestinian refugees". i cant help but wonder, are they talking about the land "palestine" ?
the jews wanted to take it back as there own, believing that thousand(s)of years ago they used to live here. When they came to take it, it was too late, muslims and christians (and some minority jews) desedants took over the land hundereds of years ago and moved on (fyi, the muslims or christians did not steal the land from the jews, the romans did). now they are fighting to whom the land belongs to, palestinians or israelies.
and natalie sounded kinda cute talking in arabic :D
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