MovieChat Forums > Solntse (2005) Discussion > good film...but what about war crimes?

good film...but what about war crimes?

posted 14 years ago by jfca283
20 replies | jump to latest

i like it, i think it depicts the emperor as a human being isolated by superstitions (equal to religions), out of time person, but we never even hear of war crimes
is that ok?
in Der Untergang (2004) we know about them
but here...nothing
and in fact Hirohito is presented as some kind of king with divine status
he faces the war with his traditions, he even recites words of past Emperors
but i don't know...the director omits a huge theme, the killings of millions of people and we have a emperor at the end who took bad decisions...
a bleach image of Hirohito...that's my problem with the movie
but i still think it is a good movie
what do you think ?

[–] inincubus 14 years ago

I totally agree with you.
I think this is a good film. It could have been a great film if it presented the brutality of him and his army. The film doesn't have to lose its calmness and its unique atmosphere and still can present the barbaric crimes committed under his regime.

Everyone knows about Nazis, but the whole world seems to forget about the crimes of Japan Empire. And in Japan, people still regard the Emperor and generals in the army as the "War Heroes". (Yasukuni Shrine)

This movie can falsely lead many people to have compassion for the one of the most brutal killer in the 20th century. Imagine, a movie in which Hitler is depicted in a similar, "innocent" way. It can drive the great number of people go angry.

I'm a big fan of Sokurov. But he can definitely learn from Der Untergang.

[–] Buff70 14 years ago

A very interesting subject of debate, albeit a sensitive one.
Yes, true, some war crime atrocities in our world are forgotten, or simply "omitted" for geopolitical reasons. I am referring to Turkey during WWI and the killings of Armenians. From 1894–96, between 100,000 to 300,000 Armenians living throughout the Ottoman empire were massacred. To this day, justice has not been served. According to genocide scholars, genocide denial is the highest form of hate speech and the final stage of genocide. America is condoning this final stage.

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[–] Novosibirsk 14 years ago

Hirohito was no direct "war criminal". Yes, he went along with his generals plans, but he wasnt much more than a ceremonial figurehead. He actually did have potential for great influence, which he used only in the end, but again He Wasnt a Politician. If the generals pressured him long enough that this or that had to be done then like any other person he accepted.

[–] deeveed 14 years ago

So may I ask what was the consensus on whether or not Hirohito knew about war crimes being commiited by his army? I have the film but didn't see it yet. When I heard about the film, I was and am curious about that "moral" center in the man who was the titular head of the state. But from what I'm getting Hirohito was a man apart.

[–] deeveed 14 years ago

This is a stunning film. The film threw out all my pre-conceptions of the Emperor. Where the worlds of politics and divinity intersect, one then can can understand an individual's motivations and behaviors. Fascinating Emperor. Don't think the average Japanese man/women in the street could have seen him this way.

[–] Malchik81 11 years ago

And they won't - they film is banned in Japan.

[–] at7000 10 years ago

Sometimes, banning something has the opposite effect- Creating more demand for it. Modern Japan is very free and relatively wealthy, if a citizen wanted to see this movie, I am sure the ban would not stop them. But it will never reach a mass audience there.

[–] at7000 10 years ago

This is quite correct. Unlike a Hitler, Mao, Stalin, or Dick Cheney, he was aloof, detached and quite far removed from all the day to day killings, atrocities and war crimes. Yet, even though he is a figurehead type character, he is still personally responsible for the war crimes, since they were carried out "on his watch" so to speak.

The Japanese were incredibly racist, similar to the Nazis. As were Colonial British, and the European Settlers in America who wiped out all the "Red Indians" in savage war crimes and genocide.

Most powerful countries have blood and war crimes on their hands.

[–] chrissso 8 years ago

Don't forget WW2 American ... black solders were treated like dirt.

[–] bg147 9 years ago

Hirohito was military trained, had full power under the constitution, and was the supreme commander of the military. It was his and only his decision to select the brutal, General Tojo. There is quite a bit of literature about Hirohito and his responsibility. His orders established Unit 731 and he was responsible for not treating the Chinese prisoners as as prisoners of war. He violated every law. The image of him as a figurehead was American propaganda because he was granted amnesty along with the scientists at Unit 731 and all of this was for political purposes. Imagine the uproar if Hitler had been granted amnesty.

[–] nephihaha 14 years ago

Hirohito was a very different figure to Hitler, not only by personality, but what he could and could not do. He was raised a certain way, and probably didn't even understand everything.

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It's not "sci-fi", it's SF!

[–] lousvr 13 years ago

To add to the other comments another truth this film omits:

1) The Japs didn't bomb Pearl Harbor; it was a secret conspiracy by FDR & the war craze generals to enter in WWII... ha
2) The Nanking massacue was done by right wing Chinesse to themselves.
3) Batan death march was really the Batan Picnic march.
4) Hirohito's message to the civilians at Okinawa telling them to kill themselves was really done by Edger Bergen.
5) His reaction to all the war movements was due to the time taken away for his marine studies not his weak personality.
6) Blaming Japan for the Pacific War & all the atrocities is a bigger conspiracy.

Oh.. yea And Micky Mouse was really a pague infested rodent..

He was a weasel that wouldn't take any responcibility for his actions..
Had he been against the war perhaps he might have given up his life instead of the hundred's of thousands that had to give instead of him. Letting his own people to starve like rats..

Even Gen Curtis LeMay admitted had we lost the war he could've been tried for war crimes.. If we blame the Nazis & accept ourselves the bull..t that was done in war.. Hell if I'm going to give this guy a free ride.

[–] pzkpfw6 10 years ago

You're either incredibly stupid or made a very poor attempt at humor. I think its the first one.

[–] franzkabuki 12 years ago

Yeah it´s considerably easier to depict the bugger as a naif, almost a holy fool of sorts than actually delve in his responsibility for the wars and the crimes committed therein. One can understand if it´s not presented as a central issue or something, but for a picture focusing on the Emperor for its entire runtime to skirt the matter completely, feels evasive & dishonest.

And the film in general didn´t strike me as particularly compelling, either - kinda interesting in some aspects and funny in others... as well as aesthetically curious... but nothing to justify the very high regard in which it seems to be held by the critical community. 6,5/10.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bryanmillsfist 11 years ago

The atmosphere is perfect in Downfall. Hitler was in a bunker in the middle of a large city being destroyed block-by-block. Your criticism here fails entirely.

Downfall did humanize Hitler. See how he treats Traudl Junge as she initially struggles to type what Hitler is saying. Anyways, to humanize someone is to show them as they were--which again Downfall does an excellent job of.

[–] CoolerThanDead 11 years ago

War crimes?You mean the a-bombs?

[–] lousvr 11 years ago

Are you referring to the statement by Gen Curtis LeMay..
Yes.. the carpet fire bombing of city after city.. at civilian areas .. where men, women, childres, babies.. where incinirated.. we did this over and over.. hell the atomic bombing was an after thought in that regard...
Winners always decided whose commited the war crimes..

[–] pzkpfw6 10 years ago

You're an idiot.

[–] ar656 9 years ago

I do not remember many US movies depicting the crimes against humanity committed by the US military. In Vietnam alone about 1.5 million killed and about 3 million wounded. Where is the film about the torture of prisoners by "men and women in uniform"?