MovieChat Forums > Kojak (2005) Discussion > One way Political correctness

One way Political correctness


Hi :)
I haven’t seen the show but it does actually look great :) i wasn’t a fan of the old show though. I think its great that they have broken the race barrier once again and got a black Kojak :) So i decided to go onto a film message board and what others thought of the show and asked if there was any where i could get it (as im in the Uk) I also said about them getting a black Kojak and Apart from the few small minded people who came up with comments like "Black actors should be kept just to play slaves nothing more" and "Black sucks" I got great feedback about it :)

Yet i posted about thread on the same message board asking what people would think of a 'White' Shaft. As White characters are being made over with black actors. lol And to cut a long story short i got so many complaints and rated so bad i got banned from the message board :( Well anyways! After this i went onto other message boards and asked the shaft question and i got the same response.
I understand That shaft is a major black film icon yet so was Kojak. I then asked friends (who are also black) and got the same response. So anyway im on here now asking for your opions :) Do you think this is fair? if they re-made white charters with black yet no vice-a-versa? I personally don’t believe that is correct.

P.s does any one know if this show is coming to England??

This message was done in the best possible of taste :) x 24/7

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It's coming to the UK soon. ITV has bought the rights and will be showing it on their new ITV4 channel which launches in the autumn.

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As much as I like Ving Rhames, Kojak to me wil ALWAYS be Telly Savalas. And I am black. I cannot watch the show. And I did not watch the Honeymooners with Cedric the Entertainer, because to me Ralph will always be Jackie Gleason. And Shaft will always be Richard Roundtree.

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im with you 100% on that, ving is a great actor but to me he does not look right as kojak the lollypops look daft on him, i also don't like it when they put white actors on when it was ment for a black guy like shaft is black and would look daft if he was made white in a remake, people would moan if they remade starsky and hutch with a white huggy bear snoop was good but not great imo

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Political correctness is one-way by definition.
Casting a black actor for a white role is politically correct, and casting a white actor for a black role is politically INcorrect.

You got the reaction because most people who are P.C. are hypocrites, and "tolerance" and words like that are actually words that mean basically nothing when spoken by these types because it is merely based on "tolerance" for things they approve of, which is actually the complete opposite of "tolerance".

Personally i see nothing wrong with black actors in white roles, but the P.C. people are actual racists and think these things should indeed only be one way.
It's not so much that they're against white actors in black roles that is the problem because it's merely opinion, and they could give solid and logical arguments for it. But the nature of these people is that they have no interest in giving logical argument. Their whole ideology is based on hypocrisy and emotion, and some of the most narrow minded people are actually those who proclaim things like "diversity", "Tolerance", "open mindedness" etcetera.
You can see example aplenty of those types not accepting any opinion that doesn't fall within their ideology, and you can experience, like you did, that you can get censored and even insulted if you give an opinion that doesn't fit within their world.

That is why freedom of speech with these types is such a farce. They don't know the meaning. This issue is relatively benign. Espouse a viewpoing that is more controversial, like a contrary view about politics, and you'll almost always see just how "tolerant" and open minded they really are.

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I know this has nothing to do with this topic but...




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by - Tridentmovies (Sat Aug 20 2005 17:12:59 )
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Political correctness is one-way by definition.
Casting a black actor for a white role is politically correct, and casting a white actor for a black role is politically INcorrect.

You got the reaction because most people who are P.C. are hypocrites, and "tolerance" and words like that are actually words that mean basically nothing when spoken by these types because it is merely based on "tolerance" for things they approve of, which is actually the complete opposite of "tolerance".

Personally i see nothing wrong with black actors in white roles, but the P.C. people are actual racists and think these things should indeed only be one way.
It's not so much that they're against white actors in black roles that is the problem because it's merely opinion, and they could give solid and logical arguments for it. But the nature of these people is that they have no interest in giving logical argument. Their whole ideology is based on hypocrisy and emotion, and some of the most narrow minded people are actually those who proclaim things like "diversity", "Tolerance", "open mindedness" etcetera.
You can see example aplenty of those types not accepting any opinion that doesn't fall within their ideology, and you can experience, like you did, that you can get censored and even insulted if you give an opinion that doesn't fit within their world.

That is why freedom of speech with these types is such a farce. They don't know the meaning. This issue is relatively benign. Espouse a viewpoing that is more controversial, like a contrary view about politics, and you'll almost always see just how "tolerant" and open minded they really are.
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Well said! PC is a load of crap that the Government and various other agencies are spinning off in some kind of bid to create inequality, but disguise it as 'tolerance of all cultures'. I'm studying sociology and coming across PC all the time. It really is quite ridiculous.

Peace all :-P

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I agree with you 100%...If they remade Shaft with a white guy there would be outcries of racism...I think that the producers should stick to what was there. Keep white roles white, black roles black, and so on...But to be honest most remakes suck because people want the original actor...I thought the Shaft remake was well done because Richard Roundtree reprised his role and Samuel L Jackson played his nephew. Even though the nephew was the main character, it worked very well.

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People were so focused on the race of the actor playing the role that you might have failed to notice that the entire show sucked and nothing about it stayed true to the original other than he sucked a lollipop. That was the real insult to the original show. Even if they cast a white guy named Selly Tavalas it still would have sucked. Casting Ving Rhames didn't make it any worse.

George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.

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I don't think it has much to do with Political Correctness.

Colour is irrelevant to the character of Kojak, so casting a black man makes no difference to the role and what the character is about.

Colour is very relevant to the character of Shaft. Casting a white man is missing the point of what the original Shaft was about.

These are high-concept characters with a few definiting traits that make them who they are. Kojak is about integrity and heart in an corrupt world. Kojak can be short, fat and chinese but it can still be Kojak. Shaft was THE "black private dick" and it was all about being black and doing what he did in that milieu. The final phone conversation in the first movie means nothing if he's white. In fact, he'd just come across as a jerk. Shaft must be cast black, otherwise it's not Shaft.

Imagine if they re-cast Soap with a white Benson. That would miss the whole point of the character. Benson, the black butler who does his own thing and answers to nobody. Only works if he's black.

Could they recast A-Team with a white BA? Sure.

Could they recast Hill Street Blues with a white Hill? Sure.

How about a white Dr. Chandler on St. Elsewhere? Sure.

White Shaft? Nope! That's as pointless as a white Kunta Kinte.


What? The half-deaf giant carrying our fake uncle?

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Totally agree, rikerdonegal.

When you think of characters like John Shaft or Virgil Tibbs, they were conceived to fill a vacuum created by lily-white detective stories.

That being said, Tibbs and Shaft were at least original characters and far more interesting than this current tired trend of "HEY! Let's rehash an old character and, tee-hee, HERE'S THE TWIST!: We'll RECAST with African-Americans, guffaw-guffaw"

That's not political correctness, that's just patronizing.

It didn't work when they tried Demond Wilson and Ron Glass in The NEW Odd Couple, I don't know why they think it would sell now.

Instead of casting Black actors to play, for example, Andy Taylor and Barney Fife; why not construct a story where you have Mayberry's first Black sheriff and the tension-based laughs therein?

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Imagine if they re-cast Soap with a white Benson. That would miss the whole point of the character. Benson, the black butler who does his own thing and answers to nobody. Only works if he's black.


Nah, no way. A butler is a servant and a servant is supposed to serve, not disobey. The situation is just a form of insult humor, such as John Gielgud insulting Dudley Moore in Arthur or John Neville on the series Grand.

It ain't easy being green, or anything else, other than to be me

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Kojak was always a Polish named detective who didn't seem to be Polish. Telly's Kojak was clearly Greek and proud of it. He wasn't clearly Polish at all. That's part of the Kojak charm and why Ving's casting works. Ving fits right in becuase he too isn't clearly Polish.

Shaft has always been "the black private dick". Changing his race would change that. It's different from Kojak in that way. The new Kojak series has maintained the idea that he doesn't seem to fit his name. I like that. Can you dig it?

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Interesting that people should site Shaft as an example of reverse-race casting that wouldn't work; John Shaft in Ernest Tidymans' original books IS a white character. Like Kojak, Shaft only became black in later versions.

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You are mistaken. In Ernest Tidyman's original novels the character of Shaft IS black.

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check out the movie "The Hebrew Hammer". it's kind of like a white, jewish Shaft parody.

however i don't know if a serious, WASP Shaft could go through. i think it would just be lame.

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The black community would do better to create their own unique and interesting characters instead of turning old established white characters as black. examples: James West (wild wild west) played by Will Smith, just how many black cowboy's in the late 19th century do you really think worked for the government undercover?
Dr. Dolittle replaced by Eddie Murphy, as with the Nutty professor, these movies had very little to do with the originals so why not just create different persona's.
If the black community really wants freedom from their past, then why dwell in white characters and become them.

P.S. How would the black community dig a Shaka Zulu movie starring Mel Gibson as Shaka.

Seacrest OUT

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I cannot imagine a white Shaft because Shaft's blackness was such an integral part of the character. At a time when black actors were largely limited to supporting roles, Shaft was a conscious attempt to posit a black man as the lead in a crime drama.

Kojak's whiteness never meant as much in terms of the character as Shaft's blackness. Kojak was one more in a long line of white TV cops.

I think your interpretation of this as "political correctness" is wrong. I am trying to imagine what black characters might be re-made as white ones. Until recently, so few memorable black characters existed on TV that there are few to choose from. A white Fred Sanford or George Jefferson (but wait, there already is one: Archie Bunker)? I cannot think of too many others.

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