Sarah-Jane Smith
When introduced to the media in 1973 Elisabeth Sladen’s now iconic journalist companion was described as an “ardent feminist”.
How woke is that?
Nothing.
'Feminist' in 1973 had a completely different meaning, it was much more related to classic liberalism. While the roots of wokeness were already planted, it didn't become a mainstream trend until the 90s.
Oh no man, I think we should give her a title for that. Nurse perhaps?
shareYou can do whatever you want. I have quite some respect for classic liberalism and classic feminism, for what matters, which are ideologies with zero relation with wokeness.
shareTo be fair I’ve never really understood what wokeness is at all, I only know that it comes up as a spelling error when I type it.
You do get my point though right? Straight up Doctor Who has always been progressive and it is ridiculously unfairly maligned now, especially since they threw Jodie the TARDIS keys. Man, as a lifelong fan the level of pure vitriol spewed at it, mind boggling for me.
To be fair I’ve never really understood what wokeness is at all
If you don't understand the term, then why the hell you defined Sarah-Jane Smith in 1973 as woke?. "I don't understand what's Taoism, but this is sooo Taoist". Brilliant.
Straight up Doctor Who has always been progressive
'Progressive' is a term that meant completely different things in different periods. The KKK was founded by progressive people. 50 years ago progressive meant classic liberalism. Nowadays progressive means wokeness. Camille Paglia was feminist according to classic feminism, nowadays she's assigned to far-right. Modern Doctor Whoke has zero relation with 70s Doctor Who. share
It was a joke kuku, you edited out the punchline
shareAnd again you’ve edited. I can’t keep up!
Look I was simply trying to say that the show gets a bad wrap these days, you seem intent on ignoring that and rather relishing in giving me a history lesson.
It’s been fun but I’m out.
Sarah-Jane forever 💋❤️
• Look I was simply trying to say that the show gets a bad wrap these days, you seem intent on ignoring that
Nope, it doesn't have bad rap. It has well deserved bad reputation.
• and rather relishing in giving me a history lesson
Don't complain about what you started. It was you who started arguing that Doctor Who has been always progressive. I answered that the show has changed. Since both classical liberalism and wokeness have been labeled as 'progressive' in different periods, your sentence is technically correct. However, if you're trying to imply that the show keeps being essentially the same, and that's what it seems, then you're lying.
Using your same rhetoric trick I could argue that western countries never have considered illegal being gay, and I would be technically correct.
What I started was light hearted. Thanks for your condescending contributions they are always fun.
shareThe truth is that the people on here going on about woke don't even know its meaning.
I've had this debate but no one seems to be able to answer it. According to some on here woke isn't about being politically incorrect it's about not doing it right e.g. having a female actress play the doctor as a Male.
Yet you look online and others basically use woke for anything that could be classed as political or progressive. How are people like us supposed to know what it means if people use the word to mean different sometimes contradictory things.
Which is why I think the word should be dropped. If you have a genuine issue with the show then fair enough and you have a right to be able to express and explain your reasons. But most just resort to its woke. If there is a genuine conversation to have has some have made out then it gets lost with the word.
Wokeness is the mainstream religion/ideology in the modern left. Mostly, a combination of feminism 4th wave and diversity anti-white reverse racism.
Political correctness is just a manifestation of it.
My point is everyone uses it differently. It's a word I'm so sick of hearing
shareWhich other meanings does it have?
Political Correctness? It's the most visible part of it, but it's still the same.
Progressive politics? Well, many people call that ideology 'progressive'. However, 'progressive' is a much worse term, since many people use it to talk about classical liberalism or European traditional social democracy. It's much better to have some more specific term like 'wokeness' that cannot be confused with classical liberalism. That's why I think the term 'progressive' should be dropped, using more precise terms instead.
As I said last time you claimed the woke wasn't people complaining about diversity, feminism and political correctness.
You said that that the doctor being a women wasn't what was woke it was the fact that she was a women but playing the doctor as a Male with Male characteristics.
I gave links to show that basically anything people see as progressive gets marked as woke. Many seem to just see female leads and a diverse cast and label it as woke which is the opposite of what you claim thus my point people have different interpretations.
I also mentioned that if there is a discussion to have it gets lost because most people just use the words in a way that looks like trolling e.g. it's stupid so woke.
That to me is part of the reason there is negativity around the word. If people genuinely have issues about this show for example why can't they have a discussion. Half the time it's just people just shouting the word woke and claiming they haven't watched in years which I find odd considering they frequent the forums
Look, you asked for a definition and I provided it. Wokeness is the ideology/religion that have become the mainstream one in what's called 'left' in western countries. It's basically feminism 4th wave and diversity, fully wrapped in anti-male and anti-white thought. It's a kind of extreme reverse nationalism. While extreme nationalism is usually filled with xenophobia, wokeness is filled with endophobia.
You asked for a definition and you had it.
Now, definitions are definitions, and complains are complains. The case with Doctor Whoke or with political correctness due to wokeness are complains, not definitions. And you can't build a definition out of a complain. Let's imagine a Jew complaining about anti-semitism in nazi movies, saying that most villains are Jews. Then you build define 'anti-semitism' out of that complain, saying 'Ok, then anti-semitism is having Jews as villains in movies', and you conclude that the Israeli movies are the most anti-semitic movies right now. Obviously, it makes no sense, because (again) definitions are definitions and complains are complains, they're different things.
But your definition was different the other week. You said it wasn't that the doctor was female but it was a female doctor being played like a male doctor now your saying it's anti white, anti male which contradicts what you previously said.
But my point still stands - anytime there's a female character or a character of colour people now use the term woke. The new doctor for example is black - people will use the word woke regardless if this new doctor is great - played great, written great etc. they just see it as anti this anti that.
I'll admit some people do seem anti white and I've seen people basically questioning if they can have an opinion because they are white and so must be a privileged and I don't agree with that. But at the same time it works both ways.
But your definition was different the other week. You said it wasn't that the doctor was female but it was a female doctor being played like a male doctor
I said that woke series and movies usually portray "strong female" as male with boobs, which is true. But that's not a "definition" of wokeness. It's just a common problem, or a complain about a common problem, if you wish.
Damn, did you read my previous comment? Definitions are definitions and complains are complains. Right now, I don't know if you have some mental block or you're just trolling.
But my point still stands - anytime there's a female character or a character of colour people now use the term woke.
Right now, black characters in Hollywood (or Europe) are 99% of times because of wokeness. That's kind of logical, though. If Hollywood was invaded by Christians fanatics instead of wokes, 99% times openly Christian or Atheist characters would have a political significance. share
Whoever told you that lied. Wokeness didn't become mainstream until the mid-20-teens. Was it around in the 90s, on the backburner, maybe. Was it mainstream, not remotely.
shareWokeness is not a word. So when it became mainstream is rather irrelevant and misses the point I was making that the show is unfairly maligned for being progressive now.
I do wonder why all the naysayers continue to watch something that annoys them so consistently.
It is more than progressive. It's ultra progressive. In each episode we need to be reminded how evil are men, specially white, and how awesome are women.
Even the Tesla episode was more focused on the women than on ... Tesla.
Ryan is evil? GRAHAM is evil?????? I'm talking about the kind, fatherly, voice-of-reason, heart-and-soul-of-the-show (white) Graham there. HE is evil?
OK man, Ok.
You either replied to the wrong person or got your sock accounts mixed up, oops.
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