MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (2006) Discussion > The basic problem with a female Doctor

The basic problem with a female Doctor

posted 5 years ago by kuku (3510)
12 replies | jump to latest

Suspension of disbelief.

You wanna write a female Doctor, first and foremost you need to write a female character.

The moment you already have an established character, that's far from easy. Even though every Doctor is different, all of them share some common psychological traits... and many of them are typically male traits. The 'average' Doctor personality is the classical 'Eccentric and courageous British male scientist' archetype which was relatively common in 50s sci-fi. Quatermass, for example, or Van Helsing in the Hammer movies.

So how do you get a female Doctor?.

Option 1 (easy one). You can write a male with boobs. This is actually the default female lead in the SJW/NPC genre.

Option 2 (difficult one). You can change essential traits to get something that is The Doctor but is not The Doctor at the same time. It would feel like a new character, related, but new, a kind of middle point between the original series and an spin-off. And that could be interesting... but it requires skill and willingness to take risks, both things lacking in modern post-meritocratic BBC (and mainstream TV in general).

You can have diverse characters and skilled writers... or diverse writers. You can't have it all.

[–] Martoto (4085) 5 years ago

You really are kuku

[–] Cassiel (49) 5 years ago

He walked right into that one.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

You are kuku

Duh, Sherlock.

[–] keithmovies (627) 5 years ago

The basic premise of writing is to write about what you know. Hiring writers from diverse backgrounds invites them to write about race or gender or some other characteristic that defines their personal worldview, which seems natural enough an expectation. The earliest writers of Doctor Who were influenced by the narratives of people facing steep opposition and struggles (eg. war, class injustice, the role of scientific development in society, etc) and the imaginative and dramatic narrative inside or outside scifi. You mentioned Quatermass and that appears to be an important influence on the writers to some degree.

I think many of the early female characters were written as strong or independent as was the Doctor, but all parties helped each other and made the narrative meaningful and relatable. It should mean that a female Doctor would be as effective as a male Doctor. Women who are credible leaders know how to present themselves and their messages - eccentric leaders will have distinctive personal styles but it will be clear they have authority without necessarily telegraphing or broadcasting it to everyone present - their words (and tone) will resonate with meaning. I thought Tom Baker did this well in the role. I reckon a female Doctor could "seem male" in the senses you mentioned but it should also seem that the audience is "present in the same room" - like the Doctor is somehow a real person - rather than an awkward pantomime of a scene.

[–] keithmovies (627) 5 years ago

Modify the motivation and tone a little and this would be a great example of a female time lord character I think:

"Helena Wells":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8cQlnNWfCQ&index=1&list=PLSPsv4kZVMK8dQJQfTLYCl_Q-QTRjnmbq

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

I disagree. She's the typical modern female lead. Take the female lead in The Mummy (2017) and it looks like a clone. Not to say you can't believe her as a (credible) female scientist, and even less as a eccentric female scientist! That's the problem with modern female characters: they're just stacked checkboxes to fill: independent, check, strong, check, and so on and so for.

They're plain unrealistic female characters.

You wanna a good model for a female Doctor that looks like a real person?. Take Dr.Lazarus in Outland (1981).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdLTe6ksME

Another one is the female lead in The Andromeda Strain (1971)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JukT5PMTSE

A real example? Dian Fossey. She was an scientist and an explorer, the closest thing to a female Doctor. This is the real person:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7caGCKECO4
There's a movie about her. The female lead was played by Sigourney Weaver (who would have been a perfect cast for a female Doctor, by the way).

Another perfect cast would have been Rene Russo. In Ronin (1998) she plays the team leader in a group of tough men, and you believe her. That's quite uncommon.
You have her playing a scientist in Outbreak (1995). I didn't find any scene.

In general, you want realistic and interesting female leads, you should check 70s to 90s movies. Before that, women were portrayed as plain traditional female checkboxes. After that, they'd be portrayed as plain traditional male checkboxes.

[–] keithmovies (627) 5 years ago

Yeah, Dian Fossey hit the right notes of empathy as well as being a scientific observer. I found this information on marine biologist Sylvia Earle...very interesting: http://www.achievement.org/achiever/sylvia-earle/

I think you're right about that time period of 1970-2000 where it was possible to see credible portrayals of female professionals. I personally admire Dana Scully.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Funny thing, I almost added Dana Scully to the list. I finally didn't because she was more of a detective than a scientist, but she's a credible and interesting character.

Another interesting female lead would be Bones, which was indeed based in a real person http://guardianlv.com/2015/06/bones-rips-stories-from-real-life/#OpkDgFP0fHGf40KK.99 However, and even though I liked both leads, I still think they were a bit 'too Hollywood'. The series is early 2000s, but still keeps some interesting features from the 90s that make it feel real.

Sylvia Earle would have been another good model. She reminds me a bit to Winona Ryder. I wonder whether she (Winona Ryder) would have made a good Doctor. Maybe. She has some quirkiness that could fit the role and that wouldn't feel like a copy-paste from Matt Smith.

EDIT If you haven't, check Broen, the Danish TV series. I mean the original Danish one (much better than the remake). The female lead, played by Sofia Helin, is amazing. And it has that feeling than american series had during 70s-90s. And almost as good, and with an incredibly realistic female lead, Forbrydelsen, another Danish TV series.

[–] keithmovies (627) 5 years ago

Thanks for the info on the shows. I don't know the shows but have heard that Danish thrillers are good.

Yeah, quite so about Scully though she has scientific leanings and forensics is something she seemed to know.

Winona Ryder seems to be an interesting actor. Certainly capable of subtlety.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Dannish thrillers are really good. Best thrillers right now, it's either Korea or Danmark. If you like them, you can check Swedish, Norwegian or Icelandic ones too.

For starters, I'd suggest Forbrydelsen. The female lead is a lesson in how to write an interesting, realistic, mature and compelling character. And avoid spoilers as Hell.

Borgen is like House of Cards.

And Broen has an amazing first season, far better than the following ones. The main problem with the second and third seasons is that one the pillars of the series was the relationship between both leads. Kim Bodnia, who played the male detective, abandoned the series since there were quite a few scenes in Malmo and he was afraid. Malmo had a huge Muslim inmigration last years. Kim Bodnia is Jew and he's a known actor, which means it's a dangerous city for him. The first season, though, worths it.

[–] keithmovies (627) 5 years ago

From the "Mindhunter" show, featuring the character "Dr Wendy Carr" (criminal psychologist):

- Disagreement over methodologies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LguyTwqOA24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1bugYaoOEQ

- Objectivity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsrisKYJWhU

- Political accountability/scrutiny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6MY_lAUd64

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

OK. I haven't seen it, and it looks real good. Queuing it.

Check the Danish series I said in my previous comment (Broen and Forbrydelsen, and I'd include Borgen too). I edited the comment after posting it to include them, so maybe you haven't seen it.