MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (2006) Discussion > Twice Upon A Time - the verdict is in!

Twice Upon A Time - the verdict is in!


Well, well, well....

Christmas 2017 has come and gone, and now we can settle back and find out what the 'consensus' opinion was of Steven Moffat's final Doctor Who episode and the forced return of his godawful "Bill" character after he had ALREADY written her out of the show.

Those who have been defending the Moffat era, the worst companion ever, and making excuses for the plummeting ratings from "series 10" can now brace yourselves for what Moffat has wrought.

Here it is, warts and all, the public's reaction to Moffat giving Capaldi his "swan song" for Christmas 2017...

The fans HATED it:

Doctor Who in trouble as viewers SLAM 'boring' Christmas special
www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/747258/Doctor-Who-trouble-viewers-SLAM-boring-Christmas-special

Twice Upon a Time grading and discussion thread
captain crow
Thought it was mediocre bordering on awful.
Moffat stayed true to form and brought nothing new to the table. Testimony is a recycling of part of Missy's plan from series 8 and what the Time Lords did to Clara in series 9 smooshed together. Same old tired "The Doctor is the lit fart at the center of the universe that is the bird poop that lands on your ice cream cone who's known by the names Heart of Shart, The Oncoming BM, and Poopinstien McGee" type grandstanding speech. Tired old fan baiting. And an ending that's a recycling mashup of 12 blowing up the console room in "End of Time Part 2" and 13 falling out of the TARDIS in "The Eleventh Hour" with 15 not bothering to try and grab anything on her way out.
Also it's a shame that Bradley at times seemed to be playing a heavy handed piss take of Hartnell rather than the First Doctor.

The Wormhole
The ending doesn't make a lot of sense, Brigadier's Grandpa was supposed to have died there, that was kind of a key plot point, yet he lives instead and all is good. I assume he still gets killed in the War anyway?
While, the jokes about casual sexism in the past were rather amusing, I find it kind of odd they decided to pick their prejudices. Both the First Doctor and the Captain take make sexist comments about Bill and have reactions when they learn of her sexuality, yet neither of them seem to notice she's black, which to be fair isn't something that was ignored in 1914 or the 1960s. And although Doctor Who has made it a bit of a habit to have black people in unlikely roles in the past, it seemed out of place in this episode that made a point of showcasing other prejudices of the past.
What was with all the reused music in this episode? For the first time in the Capaldi era we hear All the Strange, Strange Creatures and I am the Doctor, which is weird given this is the finale. Also, as it now stands, the "Flavia theme" as it's become known has been used for all the modern Doctors except Matt Smith.
Clara's cameo seemed a bit meh, and really just more or less made the whole memory wipe thing even more pointless. It was nice to see Nardole back and have season 10's TARDIS team reunite for one last good-bye scene. Rusty the Good Dalek was fun if unnecessary.
And oh my cock, for Capaldi's pre-regeneration last words we get a two minute long Moffat Monologue, which to be honest, I zoned out during, and then after all was said and done I realized I missed Capaldi's final words, and re-watched the scene and had to force myself to pay attention. And even now, I still don't remember exactly. I've said it before, but Chibnall really needs to put a "No Monologues" rule in place and strictly enforce it.

starsuperion
My biggest gripe is the writing of the dialogue for Bradley as a chauvinist. Hartnell may have had his moments, but 1960s sensibilities? Come off it. The first Doctor learned more about 1960s sensibilities from Ian and Barbara then anyone else, given their portrayal was decent and upstanding, there were some moments, but they usually weren't where the Doctor was able to witness, so by saying 1960s sensibilities, the only reason in writing the contrast between the Doctor and the 12th is outdated Meninism? Sexism? Come on! Did that really need to be put in there just before the first female appropriation of the 50 year traditionally male character is to happen? That's certainly dubious at best.

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Lonemagpie
Crap...writing the First Doctor as a chauvinist arsehole, [when] he wasn't....the absurdly over-long, over-the-top speech 12 gives before he actually regenerates...
A lot of it reeks of someone who's just watched a handful of youtube clips where only a female companion is present and knee-jerked he's a sexist pig. Problem is if you actually watch Hartnell episodes he refers to male companions as dear boy, dear fellow, young fellow, and young man. The male equivalents of his supposed sexism. Heck. He even collectively refers to them as my dears. It's literally an old person talking to younger persons nothing more nothing less.
The "smacked bottom" threat to Bill made me cringe. Another BS moment based off a knee-jerk reaction to an out of context youtube clip from "The Dalek Invasion of Earth: World's End". There's a chain of events that leads to Hartnell to saying the original line to Susan. It's nothing more than a heated moment of a parent being so pissed off at their child for doing something so royally stupid they say "I oughta smack you for that". It has fuck all to do with her being female. If you're going to pitch a fit about the line surely it should be for threatening a child.
The weird female companions cleaning the TARDIS and the glass woman conversation bits come off as Moffat's usual trolling for pats on the back. This time for "I'm pointing out sexists". Which I find a bit rich coming from a man who once said "I shagged my way round television studios like a mechanical digger".

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DarthPipes
I greatly disliked the string of sexist jokes that Moffat gave him. It was like he was commenting on the era in which Doctor Who was created in as well as a commentary on the current climate. I read an interview with Gatiss that confirmed he was going after 60s chauvinism. Problem is, Hartnell's Doctor was PATERNALISTIC (look at how he makes Susan's decision for her in The Dalek Invasion of Earth) but didn't go around treating his younger female companions like it was their job to keep the TARDIS clean. The Brig at times and Harry Sullivan even more could be chauvinist but this was a dumb decision on Moffat's part that didn't fit the First Doctor's character. It could have been done more subtly as well. "I see you don't have companions with you anymore. This place is a mess" would have worked more. I find it laughable that Moffat tried to portray himself as some great champion of women with how unbelievable bad and tone-deaf that he can be on this subject *cough*Sherlock!*cough*.
There's plenty of ways to have shown how rough around the edges the First Doctor was compared to the 12th Doctor (including one really out-of-character action in An Unearthly Child). But all of a sudden making him a sexist jerk is not the route to go. Coming from Gallifrey, the characterization doesn't make sense and as pointed out, he knew that women weren't fragile. Barbara's time on the Tardis is proof of that.
Disappointed in 12's speech at the end, which sounded like he was going through a roller deck of the Doctor's great hits (the score was epic though). That being said, I like Peter Capaldi a great deal. Moffat didn't serve him well but he always gave you everything that he had and was the best ambassador that Doctor Who could ever hope for. But the best thing of all is that Moffat is FINALLY done as the showrunner and after watching some of his decisions again last night, all I can say is GOOD RIDDANCE!

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Twice Upon a Time – Twitter Reactions!

Lily May Sherratt @IreneWildthyme
the sexism which I found irritating and very uncharacteristic of the First Doctor

Jack Sharpe @Howling_Snail
As a huge fan of The Tenth Planet, the dialogue not matching bothered me. #DoctorWho

Martyn Vincent @BadWilf
Time lords are above gender roles. [But] the First Doctor gets flustered at the idea of lesbians and a woman being more than a cleaner?

pat @paddy_magee
gosh the doctor's pre-regeneration speech was a bit long-winded, wasn't it? why can't they go out with a bit of dignity like in the old days? #doctorwho

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Yeah, the character of the First Doctor (as portrayed by Hartnell at least) is supposed to be forbidding, sceptical and a bit stuffy - he doesn't come across as being a sexist. If he was why on earth did he take Susan with him - someone both young and female if he thought women were fragile and somewhat beneath him?

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Good Lord, do some people actually consider Bill to be the "worst companion ever"? I like her, I like her a lot, and even if you don't like her she can't compare to lifeless amateurs like Adric or Peri the whiny, spoiled American.

But yeah, even though I'm ready to slap the whiners who are crying like babies because of the introduction of a female Doctor... it wasn't a very entertaining episode.

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I liked the episode. I found it charming. I agree with all the criticisms collected here. This is not top shelf entertainment. But such as it was, I thought it a worthy send off for a show long in the tooth. I appreciated all the dialog and the light philosophical musing on what the nature of life, death, good and evil, and what is it that makes one real or not.

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Agree, TandyMan. And I also appreciated that both Doctors were ready to give in and give up... until they weren't. For the betterment of the Universe or themselves? Who's to say? Also, Capaldi's face as he said his "what's one more life" line (did I get that right?) gave me chills.

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It wasn't just the general public, the critics HATED this turdfest too:



RADIOTIMES:
"Less than gripping...Pearl Mackie has popped back. Then, as now, a Christmas special should showcase the very best of Doctor Who; they must entice, engage, even enrapture passing punters. Twice upon a Time may fail to do so. This... isn’t as tearjerking as some would have it; it’s sanitised. The temporal anomaly plotline doesn’t bear scrutiny. I’m not sure we need Capaldi’s line “Your face, it’s all over the place.” It underlines Moffat’s philosophy."
www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2017-12-26/doctor-who-christmas-special-review-twice-upon-a-time-offers-a-warm-embracing-hug-of-nostalgia-but-is-less-than-gripping/

THE TELEGRAPH:
"A raft of self-indulgence...One of Christmas’s most eagerly awaited programmes turned into a turkey: overcooked, disappointing and destined to be chewed over for days....Cue an unholy mess involving frozen time, a First World War army captain (Mark Gatiss), memory-stealing glass avatars and a comeback of sorts for companion Bill Potts....It even threw in a gratuitous Dalek and a random swear-word for no apparent reason, before disappearing up its own space-time continuum....any Who newcomers or casual viewers expecting an escapist adventure would have been left scratching their heads in bafflement. It was self-indulgent, overcomplicated and, most unforgivably, frequently boring... At the end of the Moffat-steered era, the wheels came off this venerable vehicle."
www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/doctor-twice-upon-time-review-cue-jodie-whittaker-raft-self/

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DOCTOR WHO REVIEWS:
"The “original” Doctor’s athletics are a bit hard to accept. The oldster’s zigzagging in between numerous Dalek disintegration beams as he fast approaches a watchtower belonging to the only ‘good’ Kaled in the galaxy takes a bit of getting used to, and one could certainly never imagine the frail-looking William Hartnell hurling himself from atop the TARDIS onto the ground...Plot-wise, "Twice Upon a Time" undoubtedly still suffers from some of Steven Moffat’s infamously head scratching discombobulations, as no-one ever seems to properly rationalise just why the Gallifreyan’s dual contemplation of ‘ending his travels’ causes a participant of the Great War to be erroneously dispatched to the South Pole in the year 1986? There’s also little explanation provided as to just how the universe’s mysterious benefactors ever came to be in a position to extract everyone’s memories just before their moment of death, nor how they developed the technology to travel back in time and do so retrospectively? Similarly disconcerting, though perhaps understandable given this adventure is supposed to finish with a feel good finale, are the handful of sickly sweet cameos thrust upon the Doctor at the very end of the show...Sadly, this particular Christmas Special also insists on treating the Timelord’s regeneration as an opportunity for the lead actor to perform a lengthy swansong; a trend arguably initiated by Russell T Davies... Peter Capaldi’s soliloquy seemingly comes across as a bit of an emotionless rant, in which the show’s producer appears, once again, to be trying far too hard to be funny or clever, and thus disappointingly causes the Twelfth Doctor’s final moments"
http://reviews.doctorwhonews.net/2017/12/twiceUpnATime.html

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I hate the lecturing monologue device too. Yeah, it's a bit hard to take how vulnerable the TARDIS appears to be these days, as if wasn't a superadvanced multidimensional vehicle but more like an airplane or a balloon. There were good moments in Capaldi's last hurrah but the story was pretty mundane I agree. I thought Whittaker's introduction was very good.

Taking into account the preceptions of the audience as you represent them it would be likely that Moffat is trying to score some points against criticisms of his politics, and deciding to underline what he believes in and what he thinks the audience should accept as the series is passed on to a female actor and the surrounding PR vehicle which encases her. We're supposed to as an audience interpret Whittaker's upcoming series through the lens of progressive values - this is what Moffat desires.

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Imdb reviewers liked it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6968542/
Maybe Trollies don't like it.

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[deleted]

Exactly. The fact a bunch of Moffat shills and BBC apologists on the internet spammed the site and voted that turdfest "Christmas" episode a "10" dozens of times in a row means nothing.

The ratings tell you the real level of "support" from the fans, and Twice Upon a Time was watched by 5.70 million viewers overnight in the U.K making it the second LOWEST overnight viewership for a Christmas Special EVER. Whoivans learned "Bill" would be returning and stayed AWAY in droves.

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[deleted]

I agree with Landofree, that site can't be trusted. Any site that does not have a message board can't be trusted. LOL

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[deleted]

There are only 25 reviews and I checked the 10* and most of them are fake. The majority are not and are mixed, certainly not mostly negative.

Trolls have taken over MC, you are one of the worst. Far better over at Gateworld.

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>> Trolls have taken over MC, you are one of the worst <<

Unfortunately a lot of the trolls from the old IMDB.com message boards have migrated over to MC to continue posting their garbage.

The Moffat shills/BBC apologists are some of the worst trolls, continuing to ignore reality and pretending audiences LOVE what Moffat did to Doctor Who over the last three years, while ratings have consistently proven otherwise.

I feel sorry that Peter Capaldi's tenure was ruined by this man. So much wasted potential.

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[deleted]

Note that most replies were from notorious troll landofree. ReelReviews thinks there is a Bill boycott.
The trolls are still at imdb using the review section. 8/32 reviews are negative but the average rating is 8.5.

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