MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (2006) Discussion > The romance was really creepy.

The romance was really creepy.

posted 7 years ago by NoblestRomana
37 replies | jump to latest

I have defended Moffat scripts in the past, I even liked series 9. But this episode was just...not good. I'm not saying there weren't good things. I actually liked the aliens, I thought they were creepy. I could even see them being a monster in the old Doctor Who serials.

But the superhero subplot was bad. It was really bad. It was even more obvious when the Doctor was away doing something and the focus was completely on those two characters. I honestly feel like they had the alien stuff written and realized it wouldn't make for a 1 hour special and just added a random superhero pilot script they had lying around.

The biggest issue was of course, the relationship. We are introduced to this girl as a supposed smart reporter (it could have been a nice nod to Sarah Jane even), but then for no reason she is completely dumb about the secret identity? She completely forgets about the aliens and the focus goes to some cliche date while they leave a baby alone?

Worse of all, he obsessed over her for 24 years, even after she married his friend, got a job to be near her, just because...what he saw her naked as a pre-teen? We get told he has been obsessing over her for over two decades, but we are never shown why? She barely notices him until the cliche "oh you are dating someone else" scene? Their interactions are more of an employee and employer than friends, let alone people who are romantically interested in one another.

[–] organicprankster 7 years ago

We are introduced to this girl as a supposed smart reporter (it could have been a nice nod to Sarah Jane even), but then for no reason she is completely dumb about the secret identity?

Not especially a nod to Sarah Jane, no, but an affectionate parody of Lois Lane. This could hardly have been more heavily signposted. Did you miss the part at the beginning when The Doctor was pointing out to Grant -- as though it were some mind-melting revelation -- that Clarke Kent and Superman were one and the same?

'Everyone knows that.'

'Lois Lane doesn't. And she's a reporter.'

They kind of smashed you around the head with the fact that the episode was both conforming to and sending-up comic book conventions.

-There is no noun that cannot be verbed.

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

I know what they were going for, even if they missed the point of Lois Lane. My point was that having the Doctor have a companion that was a journalist, could have been a nice nod to Sarah Jane. Instead they just made her dumb.

[–] organicprankster 7 years ago

'I know it's an orange, but it's entirely reasonable to point out thatit just isn't a very good apple.'

-There is no noun that cannot be verbed.

[–] Rusty_Shackleferd 7 years ago

HA!

[–] moon-acre 7 years ago

'I know it's an orange, but it's entirely reasonable to point out thatit just isn't a very good apple.'

Where did you get this one??

[–] silver_strike 7 years ago

The show already has too much focus on fan-service, for them to add another nod. Enough nods.

The only aspect missing from the episode is a comic book type camera framing and colors. The secret identity angle fits perfectly with the setting and story.

[–] cosmic_surveyor 7 years ago

The biggest issue was of course, the relationship. We are introduced to this girl as a supposed smart reporter (it could have been a nice nod to Sarah Jane even), but then for no reason she is completely dumb about the secret identity?

This episode was drawing uopn, or perhaps paying homage to the comic book hero of Superman and the reporter, Lois Lane, who became fascinated by his heroics.

As introduced, the Doctor made a point of saying Clark Kent and Superman are one and/(British "in") the same. And the intrepid reporter, Lois Lane, inexplicably saw the two as different people.

Well, we have a similar scenario being played out. And we get the Doctor outside looking in poking fun at the idiocy.

Worse of all, he obsessed over her for 24 years, even after she married his friend, got a job to be near her, just because...what he saw her naked as a pre-teen?

I would say he developed a crush when she said "hi" to him in his adolescence. When puberty hit, his x-ray vision power became a liability in social networking. We don't know if he ever gained control of that power over the years. After all, when he got excited, he tended to levitate.

As with Peter Parker/Spiderman and his "with power comes responsibility", he has his until the gem "passes". Why not protect the one he is attracted to? The nannying allowed him to be near and focused.

She barely notices him until the cliche "oh you are dating someone else" scene? Their interactions are more of an employee and employer than friends, let alone people who are romantically interested in one another.

Again, playing on the Clark Kent/Superman and Lois Lane mythos, she took Grant for granted while being wowed by the Ghost's public heroics. Once the two personas were seen to overlap completely, it's quite easy to 'transfer' her love to the whole person.

__________

Is it the Devil in the whiskey, or is it the Devil in him? -- ???

[–] keekosdoctor 7 years ago

I didn't get a creepy vibe at all. Grant's decisions were certainly dumb, but dumb in a way where I could see where it was coming from.

Doctor Who: The Best Christmas Carol
https://youtu.be/5HeZXi4vFgo

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

I don't know, if I found out someone was obsessing over me for 24 years while lying to my face, creepy would be putting it mildly.

[–] strawberry_switchblade 7 years ago

I think Feminism has done a lot to convince this current generation that male heterosexuality equals 'creepy'.

Paul McGann IS the War Doctor in my fic
http://dalekwars.blogspot.co.uk/

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

I think Feminism has done a lot to convince this current generation that male heterosexuality equals 'creepy'.

A girl obsessing over a boy for over 24 years who barely pays them attention would also be creepy. "Feminism" has nothing to do with it.

[–] Rob-Slide 7 years ago

Never make the mistake of assuming Feminism when sheer madness works just as well.

Happy to talk about feminism I'll meet you down the bottom of Youtube with the likes of Sargon of Akkad and Kevin Logan.

River Song: Well, I was on my way to this gay Gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled

[–] InglouriousSister 7 years ago

I think Feminism has done a lot to convince this current generation that male heterosexuality equals 'creepy'.

What does stalking someone for 20-something years have to do with either feminism or male heterosexuality? Most heterosexual males are quite normal and would get over someone in that time frame. "Friend-zoning" isn't actually the dramatic, earth-shattering tragedy some guys make it out to be, it's a basic case of one-sided attraction. Happens to everyone regardless of their gender, people normally get over it at some point.

However, I didn't find it creepy as much as intentionally recycled. The whole thing with Grant and Lois Lane was just different superhero tropes blended into one with a baby on top.

Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.

[–] strawberry_switchblade 7 years ago

What does stalking someone for 20-something years have to do with either feminism or male heterosexuality?

That he's ingratiated himself into her life enough to be employed by her does not IMO make him a 'stalker'. Sure he may have an ulterior motive, but for it to be the case that he's 'stalking' her, he'd have to be in and around her house and her whereabouts when unwanted and uninvited by her. Stalking also usually entails a campaign of terror and an acting out of personal psychotic jealous rage over the perpetrator's own feelings of inadequacy that they've projected onto their idealized or worshipped victim.

I really don't think harboring a long, seemingly-unrequited crush is nearly the same thing.

I agree, that after a decade or two, it stretches plausibility that he hasn't gotten over it, but I tend to put that down to Moffat's writing style of emphasizing an almost perpetual adolescence in his male characters.

Paul McGann IS the War Doctor in my fic
http://dalekwars.blogspot.co.uk/

[–] Vytis 7 years ago

Yes it was stalker like. Someone should have spoken to Moffat about Domestic Violence that women are subjected to and how this episode reinforces that.

_______________________________
I larf in you general direction.

[–] The-Last-Prydonian 7 years ago

The problem with the whole episode was that everything felt kind of rushed. The way that it's revealed that Lucy had feelings for Grant was all too forced. I think the story would have benefited from being a two part story in the series rather than a Christmas special. It would have also been nice to get some motivation behind why Grant chose to use his powers to help people. Also, I found it rather odd that the Doctor couldn't see the benefit of having someone like The Ghost there to defend mankind. I mean after all, it wasn't as if he was any threat. It was never really explained in any great detail why he didn't want Grant to use his powers. I mean just think of the potential lives that might be lost because he gave up being a superhero.

[–] DoctorDangerDisco 7 years ago

He became a superhero because he was a superhero fan that's why the crystal gave him the powers. Also the doctor doesn't want people doing things like that and putting themselves at risk. He'd rather shoulder the whole responsibility of the universe so that the humans can live in peace

[–] The-Last-Prydonian 7 years ago

He became a superhero because he was a superhero fan that's why the crystal gave him the powers. Also the doctor doesn't want people doing things like that and putting themselves at risk. He'd rather shoulder the whole responsibility of the universe so that the humans can live in peace

Yes, he was a superhero fan...as a young boy. People have a tendency to grow out of things that they like as a child, and as far as motivations go it seems rather shallow. Also, it strikes me that the Doctor would be rather odd that the Doctor would not want Grant not to put himself at risk when he has been perfectly content to have had numerous companions who have frequently found themselves in danger. If that is the reason, it's a fairly stupid one.

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

Exactly. If we had actually seen the relationship grow it would have worked. But as it was framed and rushed it didn't work for me.

[–] silver_strike 7 years ago

Stop. Just. Stop.

[–] Benjen_Snark 7 years ago

I would have preferred that Grant hadn't known Lucy basically their entire lives as well. Moffat loves to do this thing where he writes grand romances that span decades because I think he thinks that it makes them more moving and emotional, whereas I think this story would have worked just as well had Grant been hired as a Manny by Lucy and they only knew each other in passing. Grant knowing her and loving her since he was a child to the point that he ends up following her around and caring for her baby is a little bit odd. I also didn't really like how the episode handwaves away the fact that Grant left the baby for stretches of time in order to go fight crime. If I were Lucy, I would be outraged, not enamored that my superhero nanny left my child alone to go on a rooftop date with me.

I really do think that romance is not Moffat's strong suit. I do wish he'd stop trying his hand at it because it's all very samey at this point.

[–] silver_strike 7 years ago

To be fair, he was parroting common comic tropes.

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

That is not an excuse. There are clever ways to do satire of tropes and cliches (Sky High sort of did it) and this was not a good way to do it.

[–] silver_strike 7 years ago

It wasn't meant as satire.

The aspect of the "baby care" and the romance angle could have been executed much better, but overall, I see what they were trying to do.

This kind of relationship can only work in comic books and romantic comedies. In reality, it will most likely end with a restraining order.

[–] Benjen_Snark 7 years ago

That's a good point. I'm admittedly not very familiar with superhero comics, so I don't know all the tropes used in them.

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

Agree, stick to the "they were acquaintances with a working relationship" and the alien invasion forced them to work together to the point they developed something. Having him somehow creepy obsessing over what could have been for 24 years played no role in the plot. Is not like we got multiple flashbacks of their friendship developing. It was a passing line in a flashback and then a speech. And yeah, I was gonna mention they definitely should not be taking care of that child because they are really irresponsible. If they had at least shown him asking the Doctor to look after the baby, but nope just leave it alone while he goes on some romantic roof date with the mother or showing off.

I really do think that romance is not Moffat's strong suit. I do wish he'd stop trying his hand at it because it's all very samey at this point.

There is definitely a pattern.

[–] DoctorDangerDisco 7 years ago

Um you do know grant can move at super speed hence the moment he cried he travelled across the whole of New York

[–] silver_strike 7 years ago

Doesn't matter.

There are things you just don't do. Leaving a baby alone is one of them.

[–] The-Last-Prydonian 7 years ago

Doesn't matter.

I suppose the numerous lives he would have saved while he was the Ghost, wouldn't have mattered either eh. Also, had he not left the baby he would have not been able to have saved the entire city from being destroyed. The baby would have after all have been killed anyway.

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

Or how about he actually leaves the job to someone who can care for the baby instead of putting it in danger just because he wants to play superhero and be near his obsession?

[–] The-Last-Prydonian 7 years ago

Or how about he actually leaves the job to someone who can care for the baby instead of putting it in danger just because he wants to play superhero and be near his obsession?

Just because he wants to play superhero? Yes, how dare he save an entire city. 

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

I'm gonna guess you are not a parent, but you do realize things can happen to babies that does not involve them crying, right?

[–] Benjen_Snark 7 years ago

I really thought that we were going to get a funny scene where the Doctor was left with the baby, at least until he handed it off to Nardole to watch while he dealt with the alien threat. It was a bit annoying to see Grant and Lucy both so casually shrug off the fact that the baby is left alone for extended periods of time because the Ghost can move really fast to get back. What if he was incapacitated or knocked out and the baby was in serious trouble? Just rubbed me the wrong way that neither he nor Lucy seemed to care.

[–] NoblestRomana 7 years ago

Yeah. I thought with the android there they were just gonna have the Doctor tell it to watch the baby. But, nope. They literally left a baby alone.

What if he was incapacitated or knocked out and the baby was in serious trouble? Just rubbed me the wrong way that neither he nor Lucy seemed to care.

Yep.

[–] shauni15 7 years ago

it was one of the most on the nose superman/lois lane paralells, how could you miss it lol?

[–] Xenosium 7 years ago

Just a theory

Maybe the reason she can't figure out his secret identity is because of the gem he ate. He wanted the life of a superhero, most superheroes have a secret (albeit painfully obvious) alter ego. So the gem made it happen

[–] pferreira86 7 years ago

Maybe the reason she can't figure out his secret identity is because of the gem he ate. He wanted the life of a superhero, most superheroes have a secret (albeit painfully obvious) alter ego. So the gem made it happen

By my emoticon would you be able to tell I'm a superhero? 

