MovieChat Forums > Die weiße Massai (2005) Discussion > Movie makes me dislike this 'Carol' char...

Movie makes me dislike this 'Carol' character


Seriously,

Opening a shop and disrespecting her Masai partner time and time again then deciding to leave with her daughter back to Switzerland ?

I feel sorry for the guy and have no sypathy whatsoever for Carol.

The Italian priest pretty much told her not to make eye contact with other men as they may get the wrong idea yet she arrogantly brushes this suggestion off..

She pushes her partner in front of the other male masai (ultimate disrespect) but shes had it tough? Give me a break!

Look at the havoc she causes to the Masai village just because she cant fully adapt to that lifestyle!
Maybe theres more to it than the movie suggests but if i ever saw Corrine Hoffman in real life i'd tell her how pathetic she is...

As the priest says its all or nothing, you can't be halfway between the western and Masai lifestyles.

I guess the novelty wore off and she wanted the luxuries back home.
At least the Masai let her go with dignity after all the drama-queen tripe she brought along with her.

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Not sure if you are going by the book or the movie, but whilst i agree with you in elements ( the masai don't live like ''we'' do), almost every single thing she dealt with in kenya was bourn purley out of love for her samburu warrior....the cultural 'needs' that she had were more to do with affection & respect in terms of western attitudes, and although she DID undermime her husband when she pushed him, his erratic and jealous behaviour is NOT down to culture...it's down to him being a jack ass as the book demonstrated that a LOT of the people in the village and other males treated her with utmost dignity and appreciated her efforts to improve THEIR lives.

I think Corinne Hoffman is a remarkable woman for doing what she did ( as well as VERY naieve), but take a lot of inner peace from knowing that true love does have value and when love is this strong, a person would do almost ANYTHING to make it flourish.

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“The Italian priest pretty much told her not to make eye contact with other men as they may get the wrong idea yet she arrogantly brushes this suggestion off.”

The only person who got the wrong idea was her husband, and even he knew better — his jealousy was born more of her rise in status in the community than her eye contact with customers.

The neighbours spent their time trying to talk sense into him, not in scolding her. I think that settles the point — their crisis was interpersonal, not intercultural.

“I guess the novelty wore off and she wanted the luxuries back home.”

Luxuries like not getting called a whore and slugged in the face — what a tourist!

--Eric Smith

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Cultural relativism can be dangerous you know...


I started with book 2 and am in the middle of it right now. Have not seen the movie yet. I will read the other books as well!
I have great respect for Corinne Hofmann!



Silo aglar ellammath nan-uir!

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Pardon me? You think it is normal or appropriate behaviour to be called a whore because you talk to other men?

The only one the book made me dislike was the Masai warrior, who basically only got high, drank beer or was jealous. I feel for the Masai women if THAT is what they have to live with in general.

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lol I totally agree- that chick is an idiot, i mean who did she think she was!?

www.myspace.com/spazzer18

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"that chick is an idiot, i mean who did she think she was!? "

Maybe a 20 century woman?

Pardon her if she's having a hard time adapting to savages whom still behave like they were living in the prehistoric era.

I would think the same way of Germans or French living today naked blue painted long haired like Celts from Julius Caesar time.

"Multiculturalism" is just an excuse for savage behavior (female genitalia mutilation).

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you make an interesting point about the female circumsicion. I visited Kenya recently and saw a woman who had just been circumsized and it hurt me very deeply..

yet to these people, thats how they live.

we think it's barbaric, they think it's natural...

like the song says, ' no one's right if everyone's wrong' .

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"yet to these people, thats how they live.

we think it's barbaric, they think it's natural... "

You do realize that's the textbook excuse of ANY and EVERY monster?

I bet Nazis and Commies and the KKK sure didn't think of themselves as bad people by enslaving jews and whomever they didn't like since hey, "it's how they live and to them, normal".

Hell, ask any Al Qaeda/Taliban member what they think is normal and natural, you may be surprised (yet shouldn't).

Human rights are not "relative" nor "changing", they're universal and constant. What changes is how much and to a what degree we recognize them.

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This is how it's done where they live - not where you live. If you don't like it, stay where you are. Personally I think it's ridiculous to have to change your culture because someone from another doesn't like or approve of what you're doing. I'm an American who has lived in Thailand for over 13 years - and I've adapted.

I've been at Lumpini Stadium (for Thai boxing) and women are not only not allowed to fight there, they're also not allowed to touch the ring. Those that try are politely asked to refrain from touching the ring. If they continue, they're booted out. I think that's FABULOUS. Why should the Thai's change their culture because women (and/or men) from other cultures don't approve? If you don't like it, take yer rear end back to your own country! I've tried to explain this to the women on two occasions and both ended getting huffy with the Thai's because they simply could not fathom this.

Your comparison to the Nazi's and Al Qaeda is ridiculous also. This woman CHOSE to move to a different culture - that's just one minor point you missed.

I could go on and on and on. How about women who get in the face of their men, humiliate them, then cry foul when the man slaps them across the face? Please...the woman in the movie shoves him in front of his entire village, causes him to lose face, and then people are surprised when the guy slaps her? When will women learn that there are some lines they shouldn't cross - and this is one of them. The guy is bigger, meaner, tougher, and stronger - he's a warrior!!! And this chick thinks she can shove him, yell at him, disgrace him and then he's supposed to eat crow? Sorry honey, that's not the way it works. There are still some men who are MEN. THANKFULLY.

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Thats a really piss weak argument.

The Thai boxing-ring example doesnt hurt anyone.
Female circumcision does. Fence-sit or wash your hands all you want, but if you cant objectively see beyond it being a cultural artefact, then you're really not looking hard enough.

They used to burn the very-much-alive widows with their husbands in India until the British outlawed it - would you suggest that should be reversed?

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The Thai boxing-ring example doesnt hurt anyone.
Female circumcision does. Fence-sit or wash your hands all you want, but if you cant objectively see beyond it being a cultural artefact, then you're really not looking hard enough.

The point is more or less that cultural artefacts are nay impossible to change. Your example-- suttee-- still occurs in India despite being banned over one hundred years ago. When something becomes so deeply and fully a part of a society, it will at best be replaced by a symbolic version of the ceremony, but will nonetheless never disappear fully without a need for such.

FGM isn't pretty, but it can be said that some girls desire it so deeply because of the symbolism it holds that they are willing to perform it upon themselves-- ultimately a less pleasant option than if an experienced elder were to do so. Thus I suppose the best method of action is some level of education, but we need to recognize that many societies do require as to them it is a social function.

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You are a prehistoric idiot. they are "savages" are they? irony is your culture has bombed, nuked and wiped out natives and countless other groups, not to even mention the untold damage to the ecology, global warming and the species your "advanced culture" with its reality shows and freedom fries has destroyed. the Masai use just what they need and no more.

think about that you prehistoric dinosaur. you're pathetic

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So according to you we should simply stay back and enjoy the view when they mutilate innocent women or oppress them? Just because something is tradition does not make it right. There's a reason why the European countries are advanced while these tribesmen live in huts like in prehistoric times.

Doing nothing while crimes against humans are being done is the equivalent of contributing to them. According to your logic, you'd condone the Nazi extermination of Jews and Slavs.

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I do agree with your post, with one "minor" correction: the Nazis did not exterminate Jews and Slavs.

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@al6669940-3


Savages? Um,that's how African folks out in the RURAL areas of Africa live---they damn sure don't live like that in the African cities. And,yes, some of those traditions are outdated, but,hell, there are people who still believe that a black person or a woman can't be President of the United States. Also,multiculturalism dosen't have s*** to do with female mutilation--and if you'd bother to do your research, there are African groups who have been trying to put a stop to that for years now. Hell, there's even a good African film on the subject called MOOLAADE, which was MADE by an African director--Ousmane Sembene---and it's made clear in the film that GFM is an outdated practice that needs to go, but that there are social and political reasons as to why people still cling to that particular tradition,no matter how *beep* it is,like some other traditions around the world you could look into. BTW,multiculturalism has been around since different groups of people from different cultures started mixing together---it's been going on thousands of years---there's nothing new about it except the name us Western folks came up with for it---"multiculturalism".

And how about when the Serbs & Croatians were killing each other the *beep* off in the Sarajevo war back in the '90's? That was some savage s*** right there, but I never heard anybody say, "Oh, they should just let all those people die because they're just *beep* savages,any damn way," since they were white European people. They were fighting over issues that dated back to World War II, for goodness sakes. How about back in the 17th century during the Salem witch trials in America, where people were accused of being witches just because they looked or acted different, and they were stoned and hung---hell,people actually believed that if you couldn't float on top of the damn water,then you were a witch. That was some crazy-a%% savage s*** too, but nobody says, "Damn, those white people were some savage mother******* back then!" Funny how when white people do that s***, they're still given the benefit of being human, but when black people do some *beep* s***, it's because we're just "naturally" savages,according to racism---even if the s*** white people do is FAR,far worse----like when that crazy-a$$ psycho white boy shot up the theatre in Colorado, and was going to blow up his whole damn apartment with all his neighbors in it---now THAT was some crazy savage s*** too, but no one's calling HIM a savage since he's a white boy. Both white/black people and folks of another color are capable of some savage s***, but only white people get a pass on the s*** THEY do,only because they're white and they give THEMSELVES that *beep* pass!

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Hey, take it easy, nobody said we're angels because we're white. We're just smarter than blacks - which means we can do far more damage and far more good at the same time, depending on our choices. Don't forget the good side if you want to be objective.

You try to make and rule an advanced civilization, you be my guest back there in Africa or wherever, but this sheet ain't easy.

PS: the Serb/Croatian thing and other recent European/US events are non-European in origin. Certain occult and very powerful groups of people are working to sabotage our civilization, but now we're fighting back stronger than ever due to the Internet.

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pfarnell on Sun Feb 7 2010 13:15:47 writes:

....
He's a numbskull, really. He is simply not what he seemed up front for his own part.He is not up to the relationship much more than she is, and he has most of the advantages.Hes playing on his home ground.
When he screws up as he does in the Landrover, he's a petulent boy , he's not man enough even to take a scalding from her, this happens twice when she tells him off. ...his balls arent big enough to take it and smile through it or something.
I think given the patriarchal society he's grown up in, he's remarkably mellow. His culture evidently isn't respected by officialdom in Kenya (he has to wear trousers before he can go into official buildings); he isn't the man when she refuses to made a dishrag the way other women do; he's a fish out of water looking after his wife's goats while she runs the shop. And yet he allows his daughter to be taken out of the country, quite likely never to be seen again. He could have refused. He had the trump card. He evidently was as much infatuated with her as she was with him, and maybe he understood that if you really love someone, you must be able to set them free. Not many people get that.

Even so, I think the criticism of Carola is over the top also. Someone as headstrong as she was bound to run into strife in such a tricky environment, but at least she found out what would happen if she gave into such a whim. As the saying is 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

I've personally been in a position of being infatuated by someone of a totally different culture and sympathize with her. Whatever else happened, at least there was real love, even if not eternal between them.

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I'm on Carola's side here. She did a brave (although stupid) decision by going to live in a different country and reside in a tribe all for a man she loves. I don't see him being ready to make such sacrafices as she did, which makes him pathetic.

Love is a two way street - she has been very understanding of him and his culture and he in turn should be understanding and supportive of her decisions. You guys have a medieval mindset if you believe a women should completely submit to her husband and accept his decisions without question.

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[deleted]

disrespecting her Masai partner


Um, how about disrespecting her husband by cheating with the Massai?...

All in all, it's a film about a very psychologically disturbed woman. It's a case study for self-hatred and other similar things.

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