MovieChat Forums > New York Doll (2005) Discussion > Cheap, sad and depressing.

Cheap, sad and depressing.

posted 17 years ago by frankiecheezoli
15 replies | jump to latest

From another thread: "Most brands of christianty frown on rock music as well as condemning idol worship of celebrities. It was surprising that his church seemed to encourage him to pursue fame and worldy rewards in a field rife with the temptations of vanity, sex and drugs."

That comment is disturbing, just like the movie. From what I (and an uncountable amount of others) know about Mormons and their tricky public relations spamming I'd bet that the poster is a Mormon pretending not to be.

Mormons allow certain people; ones that are famous (Steve Young), have power (Mitt Romney, Harry Reid), come from the "right" pioneer family, etc. to pretty much do whatever they want. They are not expected to follow the Mormon social norms or the strict callings, teachings, and "check lists" of the Mormon gospel. Part of the sick Mormon culture is celebrity worship. ("Did you know Larry King's wife is a Mormon, oh that's so special to have one of us married to him, blah, blah, blah.")

The former Mormon prophet, Spencer W. Kimball, commanded that every worthy, young man must serve a mission -- but Mormon NFL player Steve Young chose to be a football player, with the blessing of the church, instead of going on a Mormon mission -- and now he gives Mormon-sanctioned talks to Mormon young men about how a mission is the most important thing they can do. Mormon males are so pressured to go on missions that Utah has the highest youth male suicide rate. (Utah also has the highest antidepressant usage and other alarming social, health and financial statistics.)

Simply, if Arthur hadn't ALREADY had success before he joined the Mormon church they would have FROWNED upon him trying to follow his rock 'n' roll dream -- and either would've shunned him or reprimanded him. Period.

I suggest to anyone that is naive enough to disagree to JOIN THE MORMON (LDS) CHURCH and try to pursue a rock 'n' roll dream. ... Or any other dream that's doesn't provide a high return rate of tithing to the Mormon church. (This is why the Mormon-owned Brigham Young University excels and focuses on business education instead of humanitarian studies.)

Let me repeat, Arthur (being a Mormon since 1989) was oppressed by the Mormon culture. Any natural "aggressiveness" and AMBITION that Arthur could've used to fulfill his dream sooner was stifled.

The movie isn't about Arthur. It's made by a Mormon to show that a rock 'n' roll star is "one of us." It's made by a Mormon for Mormon public relations. The Mormon PR undertones were obnoxious and insulting to the viewers and to the subject. This is his directorial debut -- about a subject he knew nothing about and had no passion for. All to jump on that goofy, amateurish, short-lived "Mormon movie" bandwagon. Could it be he did not know the extent of Arthur's fame UNTIL Arthur told him (he was Arthur's "home teacher") about the upcoming reunion? Could it be there was no film planned before then? ("Reunion? Fame? Hmm...")

Cheap.

(IMDB lists this as the one and only film of Mr. Whiteley's. Hmm.)

What the movie DID SHOW was that being a Mormon is conforming, disheartening, and a waste of life.

The disgusting and inhumane comment from the elderly Mormon man at the end made my jaw drop. He said that it's good he died so he didn't have to suffer, etc. and HAVE MEDICAL BILLS. I hope god "blesses" me with an early death before I also get large amounts of medical bills too. If we're all lucky we can all die without large medical bills! A very common Mormon attitude. ("Opps, another kid died out mountain climbing on the Wasatch Front. That's okay, we have 5 more! He's in the Celestial Kingdom now and it was Heavenly Father's plan.")

Watching the movie was difficult. The sleazy car salesmen-like Mormon Bishops and "home teacher" were obnoxiously sick, phony and pretentious. The movie left me sad and depressed, and it seems that's how Arthur lived the last part of his by being a Mormon -- like an uncountable amount of Mormons.

There's way too much to write on this subject. Please visit exmormon.org to see what harm the Mormon church does to people, their families, and their emotional and financial health if you think the church is as open-minded as the Mormon troll said.

R.I.P. Arthur.

[–] katiewon 17 years ago

Oh really,no one can just start into music because you are a Mormon, like the Osmond family? Seems to me they worked out better than the Jehovah's Witness Jackson 5. I am not a Mormon, and I do not believe in religion, per se, to me it is like worshipping Mickey Mouse, but whatever works for you! Also, I do no believe in judging anothers religion unless I know what I am talking about! "Frankiecheezoli" did you study the Mormons, or are you just guessing? 'Cause you're batting 0.

My take on this documentary, which I cannot forget about since watching it yesterday morning, is how uplifting it was. SAD? Arthur's life was sad when he was a drunk, jumping out of windows at the sight, and envy of David Johanssen in "Scrooged" on t.v.! Arthur always needed to belong to something, whether it be the New York Dolls or the Mormons, he needed purpose. And to worship either the Lord or David. I'm just glad he got to reconcile with one before he "left for the other." The fact that he didn't know officially he was ill was good, because that would have complicated matters for him and the reunion.

I had to tell my daughter about this, she is a musician in NY. It was a wonderful tribute to music, friendship and the human soul. Bless you Mr. Kane.

[–] wenrojas 17 years ago

If you're posting your comment to 'prove' that all mormons are depressed and opressed, you totally missed the point of the movie. Serendipity does indeed exist. Some people find oppportunity everywhere instead of whining and complaining about the lack of such. Sorry you're so cynnical about the motives of the people surrounding Arthur. Your complaints sound angry and vindictive towards a faith that gave Arthur a new hope to find his dream again. Whether religious or agnostic, mormon or otherwise, what I gathered from this film is that if you believe in something hard enough, you will find ways (or ways will find you) to achieve your dreams.

[–] braves_halo 17 years ago

Frankie you have no clue what are you talking about if anything the LDS church gave arthur hope to find his dream again and turned his life around from drugs alchohal etc. I am 21 years old a mormon and didn't decide to go on a mission the church wants you to but its not required. Your obviously anti mormon with alote of hate torwards really nice people.

[–] maxeythecat 17 years ago

Only one statement to make regarding this subject........IF ARTHUR HAD NOT JOINED THE CHURCH HE WOULD'VE DIED WAAAAY BEFORE HE DID PERIOD!!! No matter what you may think about the church ( and believe me, there's LOTS of stuff that I agree with you on!) the fact is that it did indeed save his life.

[–] stirlingwarrior 17 years ago

Frankie-
Everything you say about the Mormon Church could very well be true, I will not argue that point. It would have been impossible to showcase the last years of his life without featuring the Mormon Church....to do so would have left out a big slice of the story....since it was an obvious important calling of Arthur's.

The point is, it made Arthur happy, very happy. There is a tender serendipity in this film, whoever made it; of redemption, of peace, of death.

22 days. From London to the time he died. God (whoever you are) Bless Arthur.

I loved this movie, and I love you Arthur.

[–] foo_punk 16 years ago

Wow... I personally love how someone who is filled with nothing but bitter hatred can even try to persuade anyone to believe as they do.

I didn't go on a mission, no one is looking down on me. It's choice, not required. Steve could very well be speaking about how big of a missed opportunity it was when he talks about how important a mission is.

But, you wouldn't see that. Your eyes so filled with hate, you are blind to all else but that which you wish to see; a fanciful, distorted perversion that you call "truth".

This isn't even worthy of replying to, but I feel bad leaving it alone, as who knows what type of influence your comments might have on people who don't know any better than what you've lead them to believe.

Whatever, it isn't like you are going to be persuaded to think any differently than you already do. People like you never are.

[–] Sulalee 16 years ago

I'm not going to go into religion, but I didn't find the ending to be sad at all. I saw it as a man who found peace with his supportive friends at the Mormon church, got to have his last trip to the past, then went to his final home. A lot of past musicians never got to do that much and have died penniless and even alone at times. This was a very moving, complete and well done documentary.
And I know that I wasn't the only one who just loved those two old mormon librarians who called themselves Author's groupies. LOL

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] eryckhamr 15 years ago

Just because Arthur was encouraged to go play a show doesn't mean that his church leaders wanted him to go back to snorting cocaine and having sex. They're all old. It was simply a way to make things right with his friends and I think any decent person would've encouraged him to go so that he could face this event that crippled his life.

confirmed:
1:06:20 Kane is asked "You're not going back to the day job after this, are you?" to which he answers "You know what's funny? They're expecting me back." He returned to his job at the Family History Library.

[–] marbanasin 16 years ago

Those two ladies were hilarious, as was most of the stuff dealing with the Mormons.

Can't keep me off this escalator!

[–] c7h3mxi-1 16 years ago

"Please visit exmormon.org to see what harm the Mormon church does to people..."

Wow, that's a website that is as unvarnished and trustable about mormonism? Hardly. I'd trust it as much as getting the "truth" about the Clinton presidency from Dick Morris.

All of the things you are complaining about in your post is the work of "culture" mormons. In Utah, there are PLENTY of people like that just like there are plenty of "culture" baptists in Alabama. It's part of the reason why I would never want to live or raise a family in Utah.

"IMDB lists this as the one and only film of Mr. Whiteley's. Hmm."

IMDB lists The Boondock Saints as Troy Duffy's (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0240627) only film. Hmmmmm... Only one film under your belt means you must really suck at making a good movie, huh?

Most of your comments on cultural oppression, conspiracies, etc are either assumptions based on lack of credible evidence or are anecdotal testimonies from someone that has been burned by someone else. So, your information is rather hollow. It's rather like the snap-poll of one likely voter with a margin of error being 100%. It's not that credible.

All of your complaining will not change anything. Let people be who they are. The people in the film; their comments based on their faith are rather odd (even to other mormons) and that's probably why they are there. There was likely hours of film shot and they saved the unusual stuff for the final cut of the movie. It's entertaining more than anything. How honestly serious could this movie be if Morrissey played an important part in it? Let it go, buddy. You are taking this way WAY too seriously.

BTW, I am LDS and I am proudly NOT from Utah or anywhere near it. Thank goodness.

[–] Daverat 16 years ago

I found this film interesting and uplifting. The most beautiful part to me was AFTER Arthur died and David sat down and sang that Hymn so beloved by Mormons - Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief.

I only recently found out why that song means so much to Mormons. How did I find out? I asked the two female Mormon Missionaries who showed up on my doorstep not long ago! Apparently it was sung in Jail the night Joseph Smith was lynched. (they say martyred but he was lynched by a mob, let's be clear.). So the way they tell it some important Mormon guy whose name I don't recall started singing the song to encourage everybody in jail and shortly therefater Joseph Smith met his maker and ever since then, the hymn has been special to Mormons although it is not originally a Mormon hymn.

So I told them about this film, of which they were unaware. So much for this being Mormon propoganda or apologetics. The didn't know who The New York Dolls were either (why am I not surprised?) I "splained it" to them and the basic series of events in the film and why The Dolls were important to people like me.

They asked how I felt about Arthur's conversion and I told them, hey, to each his own at least he was at peace when he died. They said they'd go find the movie and then they sang me the song. it was a cool experience.

No I wasn't converted and never will be and they knew it - so let's not go there.

I'm just saying - Arthur might be pleased to know the example of his life and the healing he sought at the end of his life has been preserved and is touching the hearts of many people Mormon and non-mormon,

RIP Arthur. Hope you landed where you hoped ya would and that it's a nice soft place full of love!

[–] TheWanderingFish 11 years ago

IMDB lists The Boondock Saints as Troy Duffy's (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0240627) only film. Hmmmmm... Only one film under your belt means you must really suck at making a good movie, huh?

Wait, are you using Boondock Saints as evidence that a first-time filmmaker can make a great movie?

I'm not sure how to tell you this, but Boondock Saints is an awful film on every conceivable level.

(Hint: You would have been much better off using, say, Citizen Kane or The Maltese Falcon as examples of great debuts.)

Wow, that's a website that is as unvarnished and trustable about mormonism? Hardly. I'd trust it as much as getting the "truth" about the Clinton presidency from Dick Morris.

On the other hand, if you want the unvarnished truth about Clinton you're not going to turn to Clinton's official website either. exmormon.org is not a reliable site, but neither is mormon.org. One's very likely to have mostly negative things to say, while the other is very likely only going to have very positive things to say - for a more objective look, you'll have to turn to a third party, rather than those who have a vested interest in selling a specific, pre-set viewpoint.

-

Anyways, I don't know why I'm bothering to post this. As someone who was raised in the Church (but who is no longer a member), I can safely say many of the OP's criticisms of the Church are nonsense.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

[–] Miyagis_Sweaty_wifebeater 14 years ago

The movie didn't talk about the time he was severely beaten during the LA Riots of 1992. He was in the LDS Church for a few years by then. He was walking home from work and was left so badly injured that he needed a metal plate placed in his skull.

[–] nephihaha 8 years ago

I don't think the LDS organisation in general is open minded but this film actually showed Mormons being kind and helping out a guy who'd hit the Skids after early fame. They didn't need to help him out financially. They also didn't need to tell him to go back to a consciously sleazy rock band renowned for its drug problems. The New York Dolls are not exactly a household name.

Also I think you misunderstood the health comment. The guy said at least he didn't have a long drawn out painful death with all the problems that entails. You Yanks need to sort out your grossly unfair and capitalist health system. But that's another matter.

It's actually quite moving. I have big issues with the LDS but this shows their good side.